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catharina
Guest
funny? hmmm.
I’ve always been pro-life
and I’ve always embraced immigration reform.
What’s funny?
Rhode Island bishop: Obama’s Tuscon compassion ‘meaningless’ in light of abortion support
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I’ve always been pro-life
and I’ve always embraced immigration reform.
What’s funny?
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Great!
No, just mea culpa. Forgive my forgetting to include that very important part of the invitation.
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estesbob
Guest
If this is true then you should start a thread on the supposed right’s attack on his comments on immigtration and not try and derail this one.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Bishop Tobin’s going from being disliked by conservatives for his views on immigration reform to his becoming their hero for saying something against the President. That’s funny.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Hmmm. Do you honestly believe that it is all conjecture or false, that the bishop made no such remarks about immigration as he was credited with and was subsequently criticized by the rightwing for them?
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estesbob
Guest
If this is true then you should start a thread on the supposed right’s attack on his comments on immigtration and not try and derail this one.
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estesbob
Guest
Bishop Tobin in 2009:
I do find it intriguing, though, that the critics of the Obama column were more offended by my writing than the fact that the President is using their tax dollars to destroy unborn children. (And now to engage in the destruction of human embryos in stem cell research.) But it still seems to me that if the President’s anti-life actions don’t stir up moral outrage in you, nothing will; if they don’t offend your conscience, you need a conscience transplant, my friend.
The other premise of my critics seems to be that because we are Christians we should never be angry or challenge others. We should always be charitable, tolerant, kind and nice, they suggest. After all, isn’t that what Jesus would do?
Well, in fact, no. The Gospels are very clear that in confronting moral evil Jesus wasn’t at all nice or kind. We usually think of Jesus as a prophet of peace, and indeed He was. But His preaching also created bitter controversy and division. “I have come to set the earth on fire . . . Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.” (Lk 12: 49, 51)
Think of Jesus cleansing the Temple, an incident recorded in all four Gospels. Jesus entered the Temple angrily, confronted the merchants and money-changers, made a whip out of cords, drove them away and upset their tables and booths. Doesn’t sound too charitable to me!
Jesus railed against the towns of Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum for their lack of faith, and predicted a terrible judgment day for those towns. “You will go down the netherworld,” He warned. (Mt 11: 23) Doesn’t sound too charitable to me!
And of course there’s Jesus’ withering condemnation of the Scribes and Pharisees. He repeatedly called them hypocrites. He described them as “blind guides . . . whitewashed tombs . . . serpents . . . brood of vipers . . . and murderers.” (Cf. Mt, Chapter 23) Doesn’t sound too charitable to me!
There are other examples, but you get the point. In confronting moral evil, Jesus wasn’t nice, kind, gentle and sweet. He lived in a rough and tumble world and He took His message to the streets. He was a fearless prophet who spoke the truth sometimes with harsh and angry language. Jesus’ condemnations infuriated public officials and religious leaders, so much so that they were determined to kill Him. And indeed they did.
I do find it intriguing, though, that the critics of the Obama column were more offended by my writing than the fact that the President is using their tax dollars to destroy unborn children. (And now to engage in the destruction of human embryos in stem cell research.) But it still seems to me that if the President’s anti-life actions don’t stir up moral outrage in you, nothing will; if they don’t offend your conscience, you need a conscience transplant, my friend.
The other premise of my critics seems to be that because we are Christians we should never be angry or challenge others. We should always be charitable, tolerant, kind and nice, they suggest. After all, isn’t that what Jesus would do?
Well, in fact, no. The Gospels are very clear that in confronting moral evil Jesus wasn’t at all nice or kind. We usually think of Jesus as a prophet of peace, and indeed He was. But His preaching also created bitter controversy and division. “I have come to set the earth on fire . . . Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.” (Lk 12: 49, 51)
Think of Jesus cleansing the Temple, an incident recorded in all four Gospels. Jesus entered the Temple angrily, confronted the merchants and money-changers, made a whip out of cords, drove them away and upset their tables and booths. Doesn’t sound too charitable to me!
Jesus railed against the towns of Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum for their lack of faith, and predicted a terrible judgment day for those towns. “You will go down the netherworld,” He warned. (Mt 11: 23) Doesn’t sound too charitable to me!
And of course there’s Jesus’ withering condemnation of the Scribes and Pharisees. He repeatedly called them hypocrites. He described them as “blind guides . . . whitewashed tombs . . . serpents . . . brood of vipers . . . and murderers.” (Cf. Mt, Chapter 23) Doesn’t sound too charitable to me!
There are other examples, but you get the point. In confronting moral evil, Jesus wasn’t nice, kind, gentle and sweet. He lived in a rough and tumble world and He took His message to the streets. He was a fearless prophet who spoke the truth sometimes with harsh and angry language. Jesus’ condemnations infuriated public officials and religious leaders, so much so that they were determined to kill Him. And indeed they did.
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catharina
Guest
Off topic.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
“if this is true.” You are implying that NewEnglandPries was wrong about what he said.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
No, you are the one who asked, “What’s funny?” I answered. No need to go further.
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catharina
Guest
Off topic again.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Tobin created quite the furor here in New England with his constant harping on Immigration a couple of years ago. New England conservatives were very upset that a Catholic bishop dared to verbally attack an anti-abortion governor. Word went out far and wide the Rhode Island had a liberal bishop.
Now those same people are embracing him and holding him up as the icon of the perfect bishop.
That’s what’s funny. The post was not personally directed at you…
I wasn’t intending to start a debate on Tobin’s immigration stance, I was merely pointing out that the conservative movement runs hot and cold with Tobin…
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
No, you are the one who asked, “What’s funny?” I answered. No need to go further.
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estesbob
Guest
If this is true then you should start a thread on the supposed right’s attack on his comments on immigtration and not try and derail this one.
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estesbob
Guest
Bishop Tobin imaginary interview with Obama;
TOBIN: Is it safe to assume that you consider the use of tax dollars to pay for abortions overseas to be good foreign policy?
OBAMA: I believe that people overseas should have the same rights we Americans have - the right to kill their children and use abortion as a form of birth control.
TOBIN: But shouldn’t we be using foreign aid for more positive reasons - for example, to provide food, clothing, shelter and medicine to impoverished children?
OBAMA: Bishop, obviously you’re missing the point. If you control the population and eliminate the children, you don’t have to worry about giving them food, clothing, shelter and medicine now do you?
TOBIN: Mr. President, during the campaign you said that you wanted to reduce the number of abortions. And yet now you’re providing American tax dollars to encourage abortions overseas. Isn’t that a contradiction?
OBAMA: Let me be clear. During the campaign, I was talking about American babies. People in other countries have to make their own decisions about killing their children, and if that’s what they want to do, I’m willing to help them. But let’s move on . . .
TOBIN: Sir, you’ve taken a very strong stance against the use of torture, a decision that’s been widely applauded. But at the same time, some scientific studies have shown that the procedures used in abortion cause terrible pain and suffering for the unborn child. Isn’t that a form of torture too?
OBAMA: Um . . . let me get back to you on that.
Read more: blog.beliefnet.com/pontifications/2009/02/bishop-tobins-chat-with-obama.html#ixzz1BnL60aLz
TOBIN: Is it safe to assume that you consider the use of tax dollars to pay for abortions overseas to be good foreign policy?
OBAMA: I believe that people overseas should have the same rights we Americans have - the right to kill their children and use abortion as a form of birth control.
TOBIN: But shouldn’t we be using foreign aid for more positive reasons - for example, to provide food, clothing, shelter and medicine to impoverished children?
OBAMA: Bishop, obviously you’re missing the point. If you control the population and eliminate the children, you don’t have to worry about giving them food, clothing, shelter and medicine now do you?
TOBIN: Mr. President, during the campaign you said that you wanted to reduce the number of abortions. And yet now you’re providing American tax dollars to encourage abortions overseas. Isn’t that a contradiction?
OBAMA: Let me be clear. During the campaign, I was talking about American babies. People in other countries have to make their own decisions about killing their children, and if that’s what they want to do, I’m willing to help them. But let’s move on . . .
TOBIN: Sir, you’ve taken a very strong stance against the use of torture, a decision that’s been widely applauded. But at the same time, some scientific studies have shown that the procedures used in abortion cause terrible pain and suffering for the unborn child. Isn’t that a form of torture too?
OBAMA: Um . . . let me get back to you on that.
Read more: blog.beliefnet.com/pontifications/2009/02/bishop-tobins-chat-with-obama.html#ixzz1BnL60aLz
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
It was an observation about Tobin’s popularity, which is indeed part of this thread. Secondly, its ironically as “off topic” as Tobin’s comments linking Obama’s abortion policy and Tuscon speech…
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catharina
Guest
Now you’ve double-posted over irrelevancy (# 50 and #53.)
My question was NEVER directed at you.
Get it? … or is this funny?
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estesbob
Guest
If this is true then you should start a thread on the supposed right’s attack on his comments on immigtration and not try and derail this one.
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catharina
Guest
Bishop Tobin’s popularity?
Part of this thread?
Introduced by you.
Maybe you could start a new thread.
This thread:
“Rhode Island bishop: Obama’s Tuscon compassion
‘meaningless’ in light of abortion support”
Check the title, ok?
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
The key word is “imaginary” and you have a very vivid imagination. I’d clear it with the Bishop before putting words into his mouth.
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