Rick Santorum Thread

[irishpatrick]

Voting for Santorum because he is “Catholic” is sort of like voting for Obama because he was an “African American.”

“Trust” should have nothing to do with it. Evidence based on voting records and understanding of the Constitution, should be the deciding factor.

Santorum demonstrates a glaring lack of “foreign policy knowledge” with respect to Iran and the Middle East. His “knowledge” is neither “current” nor “excellent.” When it comes to foreign policy, Santorum is either ignorant or deliberately lying. Santorum also seems to place his loyalty to Neoconservatism above his loyalty to the Constitution and academic honesty.

Ron Paul is too “extreme.” Sometimes the truth does seem extreme to those who have been living in a self-delusion.

Too old? I’d rather have a grumpy “old” man telling the truth than a young, charming liar. He is actually in great shape for his age.

But I still never got an objective answer to my original question: How is Santorum more pro-life, pro-constitution, pro-America than Ron Paul?

I say this with all respect–I have witnessed a significant inability on the part of many Ron Paul supporters to maintain a civil discussion.

 

[irishpatrick]

Interesting that every single canidate thread turns inot a “Ron Paul” thread

Yes, and the noticeably hostile demeanor emanating from those posts and threads toward people who do not support Ron Paul. That alone is enough to give me pause.

 

[Mudgely]

caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/12/santorum-in-iowa-catholic-bishops-are-wrong-on-immigration/

Thought I’d post this, I just found it too interesting not to. [He did not actually use the word wrong, as it turns out]

This is probably the most eye raising quote:

So, is it wise for Santorum to say something like this? I mean, I imagine this might lose some of the few voters he has. I’m sure some Catholics are supporting him, well doesn’t this lose some of that vote… openly criticizing the Bishops?

Anyways, the second most interesting part, is that the article confirms that Santorum and his family attend Latin Mass in Washington D.C. I mean, irregardless of his weak chances of winning the GOP nomination… you can’t say that about too many politicians I’d reckon. Probably even less on the national level.

The only other 2 I’d suspect of going to Latin Mass aren’t even politicians, they’re judges: Scalia and Alito. Anyways, we need him to be in government somewhere. I hope he gets appointed to some cabinet position. If that doesn’t happen, I hope he runs again for public office somewhere. We need good Catholics in government.

How sad does one get to listen to him, and to realize that he is nearly a contender? How thankful is one that he is not a real contender?

He is hate filled. It does not take long to realize that if you listen to him. It is not possible or a moral person to support him.

Google “Santorum”, and follow the first link after the paid ad by his campaign. It seems to fit him.

 

[kubark]

I say this with all respect–I have witnessed a significant inability on the part of many Ron Paul supporters to maintain a civil discussion.

How so? Care to document some of this “incivility?” Or are you content with general, vague accusations rather than staying on topic?

 

[irishpatrick]

How sad does one get to listen to him, and to realize that he is nearly a contender? How thankful is one that he is not a real contender?

He is hate filled. It does not take long to realize that if you listen to him. It is not possible or a moral person to support him.

Google “Santorum”, and follow the first link after the paid ad by his campaign. It seems to fit him.

I am a strong Santorum supporter, I think he is the best in the entire GOP field, and yes I consider myself to be a moral person. So, I suppose to rebutt that, you will have to claim I am not moral.

 

[irishpatrick]

How so? Care to document some of this “incivility?” Or are you content with general, vague accusations rather than staying on topic?

Thanks for the assist.

 

[kubark]

Thanks for the assist.

Still no answer to a simple question: How is Rick Santorum more pro-life, pro-constitution and pro-America than Ron Paul?

 

[irishpatrick]

Still no answer to a simple question: How is Rick Santorum more pro-life, pro-constitution and pro-America than Ron Paul?

I have detected a certain hostility in your posts, sort of like you are waiting to pounce on any non-Ron Paul defense a person might post. Since I am fully convinced of my views, and since I really have no desire to be attacked for my views, I will take a pass regarding any further discussion about this–with you. Respectfully.

 

[comrade1789]

I am with Rick Santorum, I disagree with the Bishops on this. This is a step to far. It is one thing to call for immigration reform, it is another to make a statement like these 33 Bishops have done to say we should be thanking illegal immigrants even though they have broken the law. It is a little bit of insult to every legal immigrant, though I am sure the Bishops are not doing this purposely. You shouldn’t say contempt for the law is acceptable.

Pope Benedict said states have the right to defend borders

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

2241 (b) Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, paragraph 298, says:

Regulating immigration according to criteria of equity and balance is one of the indispensable conditions for ensuring that immigrants are integrated into society with the guarantees required by recognition of their human dignity.

I think I agree with Newt’s Gingrich’s position on immigration, you have to deal with a subset of the people who are there and who fit the credentials for legality, not citizenship and no right to vote. But you have to secure the borders. Not only because of the problem with illegal immigration, but because of the trafficking of drugs, guns and people. It should be a national security priority.

I do not think rejecting the Bishop’s stance on illegal immigration is on par with rejecting doctrinal stances of the Church such as on abortion.

I think the Bishops should be concerned about how breaking licit laws is affecting the souls of the people breaking them.

I wish the Bishops would call for changes in the legal visa system.

Yup, once again, our Bishops leading us poorly, just like when their initial support of Obamacare.

 

[kubark]

I have detected a certain hostility in your posts, sort of like you are waiting to pounce on any non-Ron Paul defense a person might post. Since I am fully convinced of my views, and since I really have no desire to be attacked for my views, I will take a pass regarding any further discussion about this–with you. Respectfully.

If you had truly detected “hostility” (that’s quite a charge) then you would have had the courage to document it in public for all of us to see. Instead, you are running away with never having answered the original question. How sad. If you change your mind and wish to come back to the original question, I will be waiting. I will even forget that you ever charged me with “hostility.” This current discussion may be lively, but it is far from hostile.

 

[pnewton]

Voting for Santorum because he is “Catholic” is sort of like voting for Obama because he was an “African American.”

I prefer people with more of a Catholic view, than a Catholic name. I like Santorum somewhat, but his views on war do not, in my opinion, follow the Church’s just war doctrine. Perhaps if war was fought in our own cities and across our fields we would not be so eager to use it as an option.

I will not vote for Rick Santorum in the primary, but I probably would in the general election if he was nominated.

 

[irishpatrick]

If you had truly detected “hostility” (that’s quite a charge) then you would have had the courage to document it in public for all of us to see. Instead, you are running away with never having answered the original question. How sad. If you change your mind and wish to come back to the original question, I will be waiting. I will even forget that you ever charged me with “hostility.” This current discussion may be lively, but it is far from hostile.

As I tried to make clear, I am not going anywhere. I just have no desire to speak about this topic with you. I feel you, and other Ron Paul supporters, have displayed some hostility, I apologize if that offends you. I applaud your right to support anyone you desire, I just wish I detected the same from the many Ron Paul supporters present here. After all, this is a Catholic site, and for Catholics it should be a reasonably friendly place to have a conversation.

 

[sharptiger999]

*** I trust a well formed Catholic conscience regarding the life issue, which is Santorum, not Paul.

So because he is your religion you like him more?

I also trust a well formed Catholic conscience regarding traditional marriage, which is Santorum, not Paul.

Why do you need statism to force it’s people to abide by it’s definition of marriage.? Marriage has been going on for thousands of years. Why not let two people do any voluntarily contract they want? Marriage should be no concern of the government. It doesn’t have to do with them; it has to do with the who have bearing in the contract. How can you claim to be conservative yet cherry pick where/when you want big government to come get involved with something you like?

*** They are equally pro-constitution, though I believe Santorum’s foreign policy knowledge is very current and excellent.

You mean because Santorum predicted 9/11? youtube.com/watch?v=3SzH1X3qPsw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
You mean because Santorum predicted what would occur in the middle east? youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM

I believe Paul is too extreme for the majority.

Care to explain what is extreme? Sounds like you just stole that line from Fox with nothing to back it up… If extreme means being different because he is the only one who predicted a 9/11 blowback attack, war with Iraq, the housing bubble and bailouts, occupy wall street movement with class warfare, then yes, I guess he is a little different.

Sadly, I believe that Paul is too old for the majority.

When does freedom get old? I bet he’s healthier than you. He rides 15 miles on his bike every morning. When Mccain was 74 was that too old for you?

 

[irishpatrick]

I prefer people with more of a Catholic view, than a Catholic name. I like Santorum somewhat, but his views on war do not, in my opinion, follow the Church’s just war doctrine. Perhaps if war was fought in our own cities and across our fields we would not be so eager to use it as an option.

I will not vote for Rick Santorum in the primary, but I probably would in the general election if he was nominated.

Can you tell me what Santorum has said that you feel breeches the just war doctrine?

 

[sharptiger999]

And Paul is to racist for a majority of Americans as well.

You mean because he wants to end the drug war and death penalty because it unfairly targets minorities? To be libertarian is impossible to be racist. There are no special rights for women, minorities, gays, etc. There are only human rights. Maybe you should try to pick out something that HE said that you think is racist instead of listening to Fox.

 

[sharptiger999]

There certain parts of Paul’s message I agree completely and wish the rest of the nation would also listen to - especially about the Fed, national debt, and the limited scope of government. However, reading past issues of Ron Paul’s newletter makes me question how he even retains his House Seat.

His mistake was allowing his name on the newsletter without being the editor who approved them. The fact is HE never wrote those things. You should look at his voting record and he always stood up for minorities.

 

[irishpatrick]

So because he is your religion you like him more?

==> No, it is because he has a well formed Catholic conscience.

Why do you need statism to force it’s people to abide by it’s definition of marriage. Marriage has been going on for thousands of years. Why not let two people do any voluntarily contract they want? Marriage should be no concern of the government. It doesn’t have to do with them; it has to do with the who have bearing in the contract.

==> Because I believe that allowing a redefinition of marriage is terrible for this nation.

When does freedom get old? I bet he’s healthier than you. He rides 15 miles on his bike every morning. When Mccain was 74 was that too old for you?

==> He might be very healthy–I hope for his sake that he is. However, I did not say that “I” felt he is too old, I said I felt the majority would think that way. And, yes, sadly, many people thought McCain was too old.

 

[irishpatrick]

You mean because he wants to end the drug war and death penalty because it unfairly targets minorities? To be libertarian is impossible to be racist. There are no special rights for women, minorities, gays, etc. There are only human rights. Maybe you should try to pick out something that HE said that you think is racist instead of listening to Fox.

People who do not support Paul are every bit as enlightened and every bit as intelligent as Paul supporters are–they just reached different conclusions and that likely has NOTHING to do with Fox News.

 

[pnewton]

Can you tell me what Santorum has said that you feel breeches the just war doctrine?

Sure. Air strikes and bombing of Iran when Iran does not meet the criteria of an aggressor. The damage that Iran is inflicting on us is not certain, grave or lasting, even if can be said to be damage.
He was also a supporter of the war in Iraq, which both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict said was started without sufficient reason.

 

[sharptiger999]

Can you tell me what Santorum has said that you feel breeches the just war doctrine?

He is an interventionist and wants to go to war with countries that have never attacked us. He wants to use the cop-out of the unconstitutional UN to allow us to go to war rather than having the American people with congress declaring war. This is America - we shouldn’t have a king - one man does not have the authority to invade any sovereign country they wish, i.e dropping drones in their countries.

Beside that, Santorum doesn’t have a clue with foreign policy. Last I checked only Ron Paul has predicted everything in 1998-2002 that is occurring right now. Santorum doesn’t understand blowback and thinks people don’t like us because we are ‘free’ lol.

youtube.com/watch?v=zGDisyWkIBM