Rioting aftermath in Kenosha

[JonNC]

Oh, in that case, I am glad to hear that you do not blame the progressives for racism.

Nonsense. If there is institutional racism in the institutions run by progressives for 50 years, who is responsible for the racism?
One can’t have it both ways. One can’t say there is institutional racism, yet not hold the leaders of those institutions accountable for it.

You “demand?” You are in no position to demand what racists claim. If a racist wants to claim he is a conservative, who is to stop him?

Watch me. I have every right to free speech. So, I can certainly demand it. I can call them out. Of course, I’m not going to burn and loot other people’s property.

How do you know how someone would act towards a black person if that person never needs to deal with black people?

Back at you. I haven’t made the accusation.

History has shown that whenever a community is highly homogeneous, it is naturally going to be distrustful of people who do not look like them.

Distrust is not racism.

How exactly does one implement that choice? By segregation? That might work. But it is also immoral.

One doesn’t, but one has the obligation to speak out against the active acts of violence against Americans. That’s in the cities under progressive rule.

I do say that.

Good. We agree.

 

[Victoria33]

As bad as it is, business owners can get their windows back with insurance settlements. Or worse, out of pocket. Rittenhouse’s victims will never get their lives back. So let’s try not to equate the two, please. Taking the life of another is something we take very seriously in Catholicism.

Violence is not okay, Catholicism takes that seriously.

I would not assume insurance is going to take care of things, in fact, I am fairly sure many immigrant businesses were hit, minority businesses suffered.

6 Cities Where Looters Are Ransacking Minority-Owned Businesses

“Minority business owners found themselves with the businesses that they worked their fingers to the bone building looted, vandalized and burned down.”

www.dailysignal.com

The data is there and guess what? No National Guard called into some of these sitiations, means no insurance in some of this, not even state assistance.

Arson, vandalism and so on are violent acts

These black lives matter demonstrations have seen a number of people killed to try to pawn it off as anything else if “killing” is taken so seriously.

Italia Kelly killed at a BLM rally and I don’t care what the extenuating circumstances are. It happened and the taking of these lives should be taken seriously too. Obviously. Not overlooking it and the same for all other murders in society.

'Bright, bubbly' young woman shot dead at US protest

Two people were killed in Iowa overnight, including a 22-year-old woman, in a series of deadly shootings du...

www.9news.com.au

 

[JonNC]

No. Fox News and Breitbart would have.

Do you think a Fox would accuse a Republican mayor? Okay, if that’s what you think.

And so I ask again, this time in hopes of an answer, what specific command from the mayor or city code is responsible for the police brutality?

Do, again, you are arguing against the charge of institutional racism.
I’ll tell you again, who is in charge of that police department? The mayor. Who is ultimately responsible for the actions of the police department? The mayor.

So far we know it was a cop who made the choice to shoot an unarmed man seven times

So far we know he had a warrant out on him. We know he had a violent past. We know he was not supposed to be where he was and the 911 call came from a person he was taking property from. We know the entire event was peaceful until he resisted arrest. We know he went to the car and there was a knife he was reaching for. He was shot seven times.
That’s what we know.

I’m claiming it was his fault. You’re claiming that it’s the Democrats’ fault.

I haven’t claimed it’s anybody’s fault. What I have said is that these events almost always happen in progressive run cities.

But hey, that’s just me. I’m all for personal responsibility. I thought that was a conservative value,

Cool. Me too. Let’s see what the evidence presents.

 

[StudentMI]

So far we know he had a warrant out on him. We know he had a violent past. We know he was not supposed to be where he was and the 911 call came from a person he was taking property from. We know the entire event was peaceful until he resisted arrest. We know he went to the car and there was a knife he was reaching for. He was shot seven times.
That’s what we know.

Thanks for the summary. I haven’t been keeping up with the developments.

 

[blackforest]

Violence is not okay, Catholicism takes that seriously.

I get it. Vandalism is bad. But could you please, please, please stop equating it to murder? I shouldn’t need to remind you that murder is worse.

Do, again, you are arguing against the charge of institutional racism.

I’ve mentioned nothing about institutional racism and wasn’t intending to do so. I’m asking a simple - and unfortunately dodged - question.

So far we know he had a warrant out on him. We know he had a violent past. We know he was not supposed to be where he was and the 911 call came from a person he was taking property from. We know the entire event was peaceful until he resisted arrest. We know he went to the car and there was a knife he was reaching for. He was shot seven times.
That’s what we know.

So far we know that none of this is morally relevant to the decision to shoot an unarmed man repeatedly.

 

[JonNC]

I get it. Vandalism is bad. But could you please, please, please stop equating it to murder? I shouldn’t need to remind you that murder is worse.

It is not equivalent to murder. They both are a violation of individual rights.

I’ve mentioned nothing about institutional racism and wasn’t intending to do so. I’m asking a simple - and unfortunately dodged - question.

Nope. Answered. You asked: Can you direct me to which part of Kenosha city code ordered this officer to shoot an unarmed man seven times in the back?

And I said, you are making an argument against institutional racism. Institutional racism requires it to be codified.
But I will add to it. A police officer has the right to defend him/herself. That is codified. Whether or not he can use deadly force depends on the circumstances. Hence, we need to have the evidence.

So far we know that none of this is morally relevant to the decision to shoot an unarmed man repeatedly.

It is absolutely relevant, unless you believe that all of these are moral.

 

[blackforest]

It is absolutely relevant, unless you believe that all of these are moral.

We are neither entitled nor morally justified to shoot unarmed people just because they have a shady past or even an arrest warrant.

Nope. Answered.

Who or what law gave that officer the order to shoot? And is he not responsible for following it?

You didn’t answer.

It is not equivalent to murder. They both are a violation of individual rights.

When I mention two victims gunned down by a teen militia member visiting from out of town, it is in poor form to reply, "But . . . but . . . what about the buildings?"

People have told you ad nauseum that looting and vandalism are wrong. Human life is different form buildings. Buildings don’t have lives and souls that we pray for. I’m sorry I even need to explain this.

 

[JonNC]

We are neither entitled nor morally justified to shoot unarmed people just because they have a shady past or even an arrest warrant.

You’ll have to talk to a lawyer. The fact is you can use deadly force when your life is threatened. That’s a fact, whether your attacker is armed or not.
Blake was armed.

When I mention two victims gunned down by a teen militia member visiting from out of town, it is in poor form to reply, "But . . . but . . . what about the buildings?"

Where did he claim he was a militia member? He may have. I don’t know. I do know that in both instances, he was being chased, and was either shot at first or attacked first.
Now, a 17 year old had no business being there. Two things can be true at once.

People have told you ad nauseum that looting and vandalism are wrong.

Do you dispute that?

Human life is different form buildings. Buildings don’t have lives and souls that we pray for. I’m sorry I even need to explain this.

Who said you had to explain it? Why do you think you need to? No one here equated buildings to people. About 30 people have died since the start of the riots (no one has died during peaceful protests that I know of). Their lives matter, too.
In America, property rights matter, too. In fact, next to the right to life, it is perhaps the most important right. The right to property includes intellectual rights. It is the basis of free speech and press.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Oh, in that case, I am glad to hear that you do not blame the progressives for racism.

Nonsense. If there is institutional racism in the institutions run by progressives for 50 years, who is responsible for the racism?

The same statement (with the “if”) can be said of conservatives.

You “demand?” You are in no position to demand what racists claim. If a racist wants to claim he is a conservative, who is to stop him?

Watch me. I have every right to free speech. So, I can certainly demand it. I can call them out.

That’s not “demanding”. That is “asking.” You can certainly ask others not to call themselves conservatives. But to “demand” is to do more than talk.

How do you know how someone would act towards a black person if that person never needs to deal with black people?

Back at you. I haven’t made the accusation.

Haven’t you? Didn’t you imply that progressives are more likely to be responsible for racism than conservatives?

History has shown that whenever a community is highly homogeneous, it is naturally going to be distrustful of people who do not look like them.

Distrust is not racism.

Yes it is, when it is racially conditioned, as in “I don’t trust black people”. That is distrust and it is racist.

How exactly does one implement that choice? By segregation? That might work. But it is also immoral.

One doesn’t, but one has the obligation to speak out against the active acts of violence against Americans.

That is not “choosing between racism that results in incidents and racism that doesn’t”, which is the choice I was asking about.

 

[Victoria33]

I heard a speaker from the Manhattan Institute speak on the Twin Cities, there was that one attack, probably 10-ish years ago, where the young white male was beat up, I think that was in East St. Paul. He was beaten unconscious and then, there was another similar type of beating. Hey, if one is talking about racism, guess what? One might check who the beaten was and who the beaters were.

 

[blackforest]

You’ll have to talk to a lawyer. The fact is you can use deadly force when your life is threatened.

A police officer’s life is technically “threatened” with every encounter. By your rationale, they should just gun down everyone they pull over or question. One never knows, after all . . .

Blake was armed.

Blake was not armed. The AG/DOJ made that clear.

Where did he claim he was a militia member?

This stuff takes just seconds to look up. Kyle Rittenhouse, charged in Kenosha protest shootings, was in a militia

Now, a 17 year old had no business being there.

He went out of his way to go to Kenosha, at night, and brandish his weapon. That self-defense may have started from his victims.

Do you dispute that?

Have you been reading the thread? I don’t.

Who said you had to explain it? Why do you think you need to?

I explained above why. I mentioned the victims, somebody countered by mentioning the buildings, and you backed it. So yea, the reminder is relevant.

 

[blackforest]

I’ll add here some clarifications on Blake’s background. Not that any of it justifies shooting him, but it’s important that as Catholics, we don’t bear false witness. https://www.politifact.com/factchec...37.1401626932.1598584788-498859818.1598584788

 

[StudentMI]

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-jacob-blake-sex-minor/fact-check-jacob-blake-does-not-have-an-arrest-warrant-for-having-sex-with-a-minor-idUSKBN25N2ZO

Your link wouldn’t load for me.

 

[josie_L]

#sayhisname CANNON HINNANT

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Facebook is blocking searches for the name of Kenosha shooter

Coming up empty

www.theverge.com

Facebook is blocking searches for the name of Kenosha shooter​

A more drastic moderation technique​

Facebook is blocking searches for “Kyle Rittenhouse,” the gunman allegedly responsible for the killing of two protestors in Kenosha, Wisconsin Tuesday night. The behavior was first reported by Rolling Stone , but The Verge was able to confirm the block through direct testing. A search for the name returns no results, while a more general search returns a number of results with the shooter’s name included.

After Rittenhouse was identified and charged on Wednesday, Facebook removed his profile and blocked users from creating new profiles under the name, out of concern that copycat profiles might be used to spread disinformation. But blocking searches for the name is a more drastic measure, particularly at a time when interest in the details of the attack are at their peak. The platform does not appear to be blocking any content from being posted or shared, but it is apparently limiting its accessibility through search.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Reached by The Verge, Facebook confirmed it was blocking searches, but downplayed the significance of the measure. “It’s not actually new,” a representative said. “We block searches for a ton of stuff – for instance, child exploitation content.”

In a previous statement on the shooting, the platform emphasized that it was taking proactive measures to limit harmful information in the wake of the incident. “We’ve designated this shooting as a mass murder and have removed the shooter’s accounts from Facebook and Instagram,” a Facebook representative said.

Rittenhouse has been at the center of a wave of controversy since he was identified on Wednesday by a flood of open-source intelligence gathering. The identification was confirmed when a warrant for Rittenhouse’s arrest was issued by a local police department.

 

[Polak]

It is disgusting to justify the shooting of a 12-year old black boy with a toy gun by citing the shooting of a 12-year white boy with a toy gun, as if everything is fine as long as kill some kids of each race.

I’m not justifying anything. You said this would not have happened to a white child, and it has, many times.

You and @(name removed by moderator) are hypothesizing about the existence of data for which you simply “believe” must be true.

Oh okay, so when people use data to show how mistreated black people are by cops, it’s true, but when they use data to show they are not any more mistreated by cops than white people, it’s questionable. Got it.

 

[JonNC]

A police officer’s life is technically “threatened” with every encounter. By your rationale, they should just gun down everyone they pull over or question. One never knows, after all . . .

Not my rationale. There are specific guidelines on the topic. So, “gunning down everyone“ is just a silly comment.

Blake was not armed. The AG/DOJ made that clear.

He had a knife.

I explained above why. I mentioned the victims, somebody countered by mentioning the buildings, and you backed it. So yea, the reminder is relevant

No one compared buildings to people. No one.
But both the right to life and right to property must be defended.

 

[Polak]

There are specific guidelines on the topic.

Blackforest used the same argument with traffic stops. It’s nonsense. Cops have to make judgment calls. When a cop deals with somebody, they have to judge the danger. If they are dealing with somebody dangerous, they’ll probably immediately tell them to show their hands etc. If somebody is fighting back or reaching for something when they have been told not to, that is cause for concern. If a cop tells someone that they were speeding, they do not feel under imminent danger. Each situation is different.

 

[JonNC]

Each situation is different.

Which is why there is always an investigation into a police shooting, regardless of the race of those involved.

 

[blackforest]

He had a knife.

Allegedly. In his car. On the floorboard. Out of reach. Not a threat.

Blackforest used the same argument with traffic stops. It’s nonsense.

That “nonsense” killed Philando Castile and endangers many lives at routine traffic stops.

This latest victim didn’t even get a chance to get out his wallet. https://time.com/5879794/georgia-cop-murder-shooting-black-man/