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Polak
Guest
Your ‘Christian’ argument is a terrible one. Profiling isn’t done based on prison populations. Even if it was (and it isn’t), population wise there are proportionately more black people in prison than Christians.
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AlNg
Guest
Another problem with this line of reasoning is that in prison, there are many conversions to Christianity. At least that is what I heard. It does not sound good, but the testimony I heard is that once someone is locked up, it becomes easier for them to find Christ. I don’t know how reliable that testimony was, but it came from a former prisoner.
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Polak
Guest
Yes there do certainly seem to be a lot of born again Christians who say they found God in prison.
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billsherman
Guest
Yeah, I think you’re just grasping at anything to justify a blatantly racist policy.
As a few posters have noted, systemic racism heavily influences the number of African Americans arrested vs. whites (i.e. the expectation that African Americans commit more crimes than whites leads to more policing in African American neighborhoods, which leads to more arrests, etc.).
If profiling is supposed to be useful in reducing crimes, why don’t we profile the people most likely to commit crimes? Christians and men commit crimes at higher rates than African Americans. If profiling is a good thing, those two groups should be targeted first.
But profiling is not designed to reduce crime, it’s designed to perpetuate a racially biased criminal justice system. It does that very, very well. It maintains a social environment in which white people assume African Americans are more likely to be criminals. That is one of the most fundamental (false) assumptions behind American racism.
You won’t believe me, of course, because you appear to believe that the color of one’s skin affects their likelihood to engage in criminal behavior. That, on its face, is pretty silly.
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Polak
Guest
I think you’re grasping at anything to show there is racism where there isn’t any.
That might be a ‘fact’ to you but it’s still a theory to me.
We’ve been through this. It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote.
Nonsense.
Nope, I don’t and never said that anywhere. Nice straw man though.
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Trader
Guest
The Kenosha police union has released the most detailed account of the Jacob Blake shooting so far:
Among the most important points:
Police were called because of a complaint that Blake was attempting to steal a car.
Police were aware that Blake had a felony warrant for sexual assault.
Blake forcefully resistied arrest, at one point putting an officer in a headlock.
Police twice used a stun gun on Blake without effect.
At least one officer claims he saw Blake in possession of a knife.
In my opinion, this kind of behavior by a suspect has a high likelihood of getting the suspect shot. A suspect armed with a deadly weapon cannot forcibly resist arrest and expect it to end well.
Among the most important points:
Police were called because of a complaint that Blake was attempting to steal a car.
Police were aware that Blake had a felony warrant for sexual assault.
Blake forcefully resistied arrest, at one point putting an officer in a headlock.
Police twice used a stun gun on Blake without effect.
At least one officer claims he saw Blake in possession of a knife.
In my opinion, this kind of behavior by a suspect has a high likelihood of getting the suspect shot. A suspect armed with a deadly weapon cannot forcibly resist arrest and expect it to end well.
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Nepperhan
Guest
I’ve never met a black male who would say that. Even Tim Scott, Mr. Conservative, says he was racially profiled by the police and stopped while committing no infraction.
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Nepperhan
Guest
Yes. I can provide an affidavit that I’ve never met a black male who would say that he had never been stopped for no reason. And I’ve known hundreds.
Look, I’m not going to get into war stories, here.
Look, I’m not going to get into war stories, here.
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
Such a lazy rebuttal. Of course they can’t provide documentation proving beyond a doubt that those people were stopped for “no reason”, but that’s an unreasonable thing to demand and you wouldn’t for lots of other circumstances which couldn’t be proven beyond a doubt.
Besides, those people probably were stopped for “reasons”, but those reasons related to profiling.
Besides, those people probably were stopped for “reasons”, but those reasons related to profiling.
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
They aren’t lying though. They’re speaking honestly about what people they know have experienced.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is pretty clear that lying is when you tell a falsehood in order to deceive. Nepper speaking about what people they know have said is not lying given that they believe what those people have told them. It is not lying to say something false if you believe it, although Nepper has no reason to doubt the experience of black people he knows.
Frankly I think that you are being dishonest, and I don’t really believe that you think the user has to provide “evidence” to confirm what people they know have relayed to them.
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
If it happens enough times to enough people then that’s a wide enough sample to be evidence.
Out of interest, are you a cop?
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
It’s very relevant. Nobody believes anything out of reason alone. It’s always interesting to know what someone’s personal stake in an issue is.
Yes, I understand that. I think that the police are probably taught to profile people, and there is obviously a logic behind this based on demographics connecting race (and other features) and crime.
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billsherman
Guest
That’s great. It’s also pretty far from normal. Might it be possible that African Americans you know, are just trying to avoid getting into an argument with you about racial profiling? I know I avoid plenty of sensitive topics with people when I know that they hold views incompatible with mine.
I should also note that there is no evidence that racial profiling even reduces crime. It just reduces the humanity of the people being profiled - it systematically buries them in society by associating their characteristics with crime.
To whit:
www.nbcnews.com
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...ter/racial-profiling-past-present-and-future/
www.nbcnews.com
news.stanford.edu
I should also note that there is no evidence that racial profiling even reduces crime. It just reduces the humanity of the people being profiled - it systematically buries them in society by associating their characteristics with crime.
To whit:
Inside 100 million police traffic stops: New evidence of racial bias
Stanford researchers found that black and Latino drivers were stopped more often than white drivers, based on less evidence of wrongdoing.
www.nbcnews.com
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...ter/racial-profiling-past-present-and-future/
Inside 100 million police traffic stops: New evidence of racial bias
Stanford researchers found that black and Latino drivers were stopped more often than white drivers, based on less evidence of wrongdoing.
www.nbcnews.com
Stanford researchers develop new statistical test that shows racial profiling in police traffic stops
The new tool shows that police in North Carolina were more likely to search black and Hispanic motorists than white ones.
news.stanford.edu
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Nepperhan
Guest
You worded your question wrong. “Can you prove that you’ve never known a black guy to be stopped for no reason?”
I never claimed that.
I never claimed that.
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Nepperhan
Guest
Close: “I can provide an affidavit that I’ve never met a black male who would say that he had never been stopped for no reason. And I’ve known hundreds.”
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childinthefaith
Guest
Funny, kind of. We always see a cruiser parked across the lot when leaving mass, as if either they’ve been watching for armed intruders, or maybe someone is under the influence of the chalice.
Amuses me to see them there.
blackforest
Well-known member
Given that the police, especially in African-American neighborhoods, have started, shall we say, “fitting the description,” is it OK to profile them?
I’m skeptical. There’s footage of several officers wrestling Blake to the ground. That’s a big enough ratio for someone to have confiscated a knife from him if he indeed had one.
If it’s true. There are no body-cams, and the citizen didn’t start filming until right before Blake was shot. As even the conservative posters have mentioned, we won’t have all of the details until the trial, if then.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
My comment might be better for the philosophy sub-forum, but outside of mathematics with some set of agreed upon set of axioms, there is often some component of something presented as “Reasoned” that comes from some normative but subjective set of positions.
This is demonstrably false.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The remarkable thing to me in the top article is the high percentage of persons stopped who actually have contraband in their cars. It’s about 1/3 for both whites and blacks. About 1/4 for Hispanics. 1/3 is a lot. Suggests to me the cops generally know what they’re doing when they stop people. That’s the interesting thing to me in these studies. Since blacks and whites have virtually the same incidence, that’s not very interesting.
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