Rioting aftermath in Kenosha

[JonNC]

Polak:

How do you know the cop was using deadly force in this situation?

The use of a gun is always considered “deadly force” and is supposed to be the absolute last resort if all else fails.

So if Blake had a gun in that car, there was a threat of deadly force from an individual who just resisted arrest.

Let’s wait for the evidence.

 

[Polak]

I think what people forget is that the police isn’t set up to run like a court system, i.e. innocent until proven guilty. It’s just too dangerous to apply this in the police, so it’s pretty much the other way around and the police have to expect the worst.

Now that doesn’t mean ‘shoot first ask questions later’, but it does mean if you are reaching for something out of sight or hiding your hands, the police have to assume the worst. If they assume the suspect isn’t reaching for or hiding a weapon, they could die.

This is why it is of paramount importance to follow the instructions of the police until they can be certain you are not a threat to them. In most cases they deal with criminals, do it’s natural for them to proceed with caution when dealing with people. Unfortunately in videos of situations we have seen of black men being shot and/or killed by police, they never complied with instructions. That doesn’t mean every killing was justified, but it does rubbish the narrative pushed by many that police are just driving along and finding black people to kill in cold blood.

Find me one recording of a black man being shot by police when he did everything he was told, didn’t struggle, didn’t try to run away etc. There aren’t any.

 

[PaulinVA]

Why strikes me is how awful at controlling suspects and controlling the scene some police officers are.

I don’t mean for that to be an anti-police statement - it’s just obvious.

 

[StudentMI]

Are you trying to say I have a mental health issue?

Just flag stuff like that. Don’t engage.

 

[Victoria33]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...r-jacob-blake-calls-calm-200826042545135.html

Social media video showed a gun battle among civilians with several people rushing a man with a long gun who apparently had been knocked to the ground. The video shows him firing at the people rushing towards him, one of whom falls to the ground. Several other shots are heard in the background.

The New York Times reported police were investigating whether the shooting “stemmed from a conflict between self-styled militias guarding a gas station and demonstrators”.

Earlier, police had fired tear gas and rubber bullets to disperse protesters angered by the latest shooting of a Black man, whose family said he was left paralysed after being shot multiple times in the back by a white police officer.

It seems like some pretty needless mayhem to me and yes, people are out there too, guarding their own property.

The protesters have every right to peacefully demonstrate; the police have been fairly easy on the protests, what are bad are these singular events like Kenosha.

News is there were a lot of businesses that went down in Kenosha last night. National Guard not called out? I don’t know.

“Leg Irons”, that’s what they are called. The police could possibly use those, there are also those “irons” (I don’t now the exact term) where the hands are cuffed, the legs are in those irons and it’s all linked together.

 

[AlNg]

the mainstream media are doing nothing but describing the protests as peaceful, even the ones that clearly are not

Yes. It is truly incredible. There is an attempt on the part of the MSM to minimize and whitewash the rioting, looting and destruction of small businesses.

if Blake had a gun in that car

That is a question that should be answered.

 

[Victoria33]

There is another journalist out there, quite a bit like Andy Ngo but it is a different guy, maybe Hispanic. He’s saying that the mainstream often leaves the scenes before it gets too bad.

Gateway Pundit reports some guy was firing off a gun at a Trump rally crowd. Why is this not reported.

Media Blackout: North Carolina Man Arrested For Shooting at Crowd of Trump Supporters, Which Included Children | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

Marquise Damarius Asomani (WSOC) Marquise Damarius Asomani of Charlotte, North Carolina was arrested on Tuesday for shooting at a crowd of Trump supporters gathered on an interstate overpass Monday evening.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

I’m trying to read more on this.

This news was reported apparently by a station, WSOC. If this is so, this needs mainstream coverage.

 

[AlNg]

From the video it looks like he reached for a gun in the car and shot one of the officers?

 

[JonNC]

That is a question that should be answered.

Apparently officials in Wisconsin have been reluctant to release that information.

 

[JonNC]

Now that doesn’t mean ‘shoot first ask questions later’, but it does mean if you are reaching for something out of sight or hiding your hands, the police have to assume the worst. If they assume the suspect isn’t reaching for or hiding a weapon, they could die.

Just as importantly, innocent bystanders could be injured or killed.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

So you believe that if a law enforcement officer tells you to do something, you’re free to disregard it?

An officer’s authority is not absolute. An officer may issue a command for which one has no duty to comply. Recognizing where there is or is not obligation though requires some familiarity with the law. Consult a local legal professional to get a better idea of your obligations.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Why is this not reported.

Someone noted some possible factors for a story getting more coverage in another thread. Factors that increase the chance of coverage (in no specific order) include

• Existence of video footage of the incident
• Injury or death from the alleged incident
• The actor(s) of the incident still walking around freely, though identified.

The last item above increases feelings of unfairness and lack of justice. In the story you referenced, the person has been arrested and the process to justice is occurring. I dont know how the story evaluates against the other two factors.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

If they assume the suspect isn’t reaching for or hiding a weapon, they could die.

This is a risk they should have to accept when they take the job. They can’t go around blasting everyone who may be carrying a weapon or reaching for one. Cops are essentially the armed wing of the state, hired killers of the government that protect property and the law. They should be scrutinised probably more than any other profession. A cop killing an innocent man is a thousand times worse than a cop being killed in the course of their work.

 

[PaulinVA]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html

I thought this was a good explainer.

 

[JonNC]

They can’t go around blasting everyone who may be carrying a weapon or reaching for one.

When they reach for one after physically resisting arrest, that isn’t the same as merely carrying or reaching for a firearm

Cops are essentially the armed wing of the state, hired killers of the government that protect property and the law.

That seems to be the progressive view. The proper view is agents who carry out the primary function of government: protect individual rights.

They should be scrutinised probably more than any other profession.

Perhaps, though elected officials might need as much since police work for them.

A cop killing an innocent man is a thousand times worse than a cop being killed in the course of their work.

That absurd.

 

[KMC]

One way to avoid it is for officers to not try to stop an uncooperative suspect, and simply allow him to walk away or drive away without pursuit. But that could also have bad consequences.

This is what will happen. I honestly think that many of the rioters would prefer this.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Any connection to a larger story helps. There were several children that died over the fourth of July weekend. Some of them got mentioned in a story collectively about the uptick in shootings. One got a story by itself, but it was connected to a story about people taking over the location of a person that died from being shot by a police officer.

 

[KMC]

Why strikes me is how awful at controlling suspects and controlling the scene some police officers are.

I don’t mean for that to be an anti-police statement - it’s just obvious.

I dunno…think about Rayshard Brooks. Cops tried to arrest him then he was able, due to his strength, to overpower them. Think about prison inmates who work out all of the time. There are a lot of either strong people who don’t want to be arrested. And…choke holds have been banned in a number of places. Basically cops can either use their gun, or enter an unfair fight where they have restrictions but their opponent does not.

Or…as I just said…cops will just stop attempting to arrest a resisting suspect.

 

[PaulinVA]

Or…as I just said…cops will just stop attempting to arrest a resisting suspect.

Well, what I meant by that was, in the most recent case, if the police feared that the guy had a weapon in the vehicle, they should have prevented/blocked him from getting access to the front door, not shoot him when he did.

 

[blackforest]

I think there are police departments all across the country being told to stand down by their progressive leaders.

Stand down as in, “Make some arrests, but no more than six people, please.” Far-fetched and silly.

When the same series of events happen over and over, it can’t be explained away by pretending a particular fallacy is at play.

Democrats tend to cluster in urban areas. There’s no evidence that a Republican mayor would do a better job at preventing and prosecuting police violence.

I can tell you there are some people who constantly push the idea that white society in general is racist

Well, at least you’re backing off from our claim that these protests would happen even without police violence. That’s a good one from which to backpedal.

That isn’t very much. Are you talking about Kenosha protestors only?

Yes. And I already addressed this. It doesn’t take that many people to start a fire. If you feel the Kenosha PD is being incompetent by not arresting more people at an event that you didn’t even witness, take it up with them.

Erm, the mainstream media are doing nothing but describing the protests as peaceful, even the ones that clearly are not.

It’s hard to find a single story about Jacob Blake that doesn’t also include a blurb about evil rioters.

I also can’t find any of reporters attending the peaceful, daytime protests and interviewing peaceful protesters. Please prove me wrong. Sincerely. I’d love to see more responsible journalism.

If they assume the suspect isn’t reaching for or hiding a weapon, they could die.

The public is not to be held responsible for every last personal fear of police officers. Applying your logic, none of us could reach for our registration at a traffic stop without getting shot.

Unfortunately in videos of situations we have seen of black men being shot and/or killed by police, they never complied with instructions.

This. Does. Not. Warrant. Execution.

Not even our Church would back anyone saying the contrary. Even the minority of Catholics globally who support the death penalty do so only in cases of first degree murder.