Roe v. Wade at 40: Most Oppose Overturning Abortion Decision

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I wanted to highlight the footnote to this article, because I have often seen various news reports which imply that Roe legalized abortion only for the first three months of pregnancy. That is incorrect. Roe and Doe gave us abortion on demand. It legalized abortion through all nine months of pregnancy.

When polls ask whether abortion should be legal at any time for any reason, there is only minority support for the position.
Considering that many people do not know what that law did, pollsters should stick to asking questions specifically about abortion

Pew says the majority of 18 - 29 year olds do not know what Roe v wade dealt with

hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/01/16/pew-majority-of-18-to-29-year-olds-dont-know-which-issue-roe-v-wade-dealt-with
 
Obama supporting Catholics, what is your reaction to Obama’s statement?

Obama Celebrates 40 Years of Abortion, Praising Roe v. Wade

lifenews.com/2013/01/22/obama-celebrates-40-years-of-abortion-praising-roe-v-wade
I don’t have a problem with his statement. He’s talking about Roe, Roe allowed for restrictions after the first trimester. In my state for instance we voted to require the restriction of parental notification as long as in cases where there was fear of parental abuse, that a young pregnant girl could go before a judge to seek an “out”. I voted for the restriction. 🤷.
 
Just because Liberals want to see minority children aborted at high numbers in California, Illinois and New York should not allow these states to impose their POV on Oklahoma, Texas, Wyoming, etc.

Those states have more of a population but the rest of the nation per state doesn’t necessarily think that way. A good excuse though.
Here’s a problem though. Under your scenario, women in CA, IL, or NY would then have more rights than those in OK, TX, WY, etc. Maybe though a difference between you and I is that not just men but I believe all women are created equal and should have the same right regardless of which state they were born or reside in. And if the civil law of the land (Look Computer Geek I didn’t say the “p”/“b” words 👍) is choice as it was interpreted to be by the US SCOTUS a full 4 decades ago, then all women should have that civil right imo regardless of their place of birth or current residence.
 
I bet there were some slave owners who continued to illegally keep slaves after slavery was outlawed nationally. You can not keep a human rights violation legal because a minority of people will defy the law. Making abortion illegal will stop the majority of abortion, as outlawing slavery meant the majority of slaves were allowed to go free
How is slavery more like abortion than any other crime? It’s a comparison that I’ve never understood, but some persist in it, I guess in the hope that emotion will win people over?
 
Just to be clear, there were many, many abortions before this. We’ve only really started counting them for these last 40 years.
Exactly. So the idea that the problem will disappear if we push them underground back to where they can’t be counted again, strikes me as a tad unrealistic.

There is no shortcut to “winning hearts and minds” - the very definition of what all Christians are to make their first and greatest duty.
 
How is slavery more like abortion than any other crime? It’s a comparison that I’ve never understood, but some persist in it, I guess in the hope that emotion will win people over?
During slavery Blacks were seen as non persons, as the unborn is seen by many today; people could choose to sell, kill or buy; it was legal

Unborn are seen as non persons by many; people can choose to kill; abortion is legal
 
How is slavery more like abortion than any other crime? It’s a comparison that I’ve never understood, but some persist in it, I guess in the hope that emotion will win people over?
I’ve never understood the comparison either or for that matter why they always change the topic to slavery or the Holocaust when the topic is abortion or as with this thread about Roe v Wade.
 
I’ve never understood the comparison either or for that matter why they always change the topic to slavery or the Holocaust when the topic is abortion or as with this thread about Roe v Wade.
Because we are discussing basic human rights? Slavery and the Holocaust are the most recognizable violations of human rights.
 
During slavery Blacks were seen as non persons, as the unborn is seen by many today
The problem is that the unborn is not seen. If it were out in the open and 5’10" it would be a different story. Just saying.
 
The problem is that the unborn is not seen. Just saying.
If a blind person hears a baby cry but can not see them does that mean there is not a baby there or that the baby is not a human being?

Unborn can be seen by ultrasound and their heartbeat can be heard on monitor
 
Too bad science disagrees with you.
Science actually refers to various stages of development. There are embryos and fetuses for instance. And then there are people who are known as children and adults. And civil law for a land determines human personhood rights and determines how the scales tip between women’s rights and the rights of the unborn since unfortunately the 2 don’t always balance out equally. So the legal rights of one must be determined to take precedence sometimes over the other. It’s just a fact of life and reality in this imperfect world we live in called earth. It’s not called heaven on earth for a reason.
 
Exactly. So the idea that the problem will disappear if we push them underground back to where they can’t be counted again, strikes me as a tad unrealistic.

There is no shortcut to “winning hearts and minds” - the very definition of what all Christians are to make their first and greatest duty.
Justice means that the law has to protect the right of every human being. Laws shape behaviour. Abolitionists such as William Wilberforce did not wait to change hearts or to wait for a change in society, they sought to change the law as did Martin Luther King Jr. He did not wait until society saw that segregation was change, he sought change by action, by peaceful marches, and events to get the media’s attention to show how disgracefully people were treated
 
nrlc.org/press_releases_new/Release012213.html
The following statement may be attributed to Carol Tobias, president of National Right to Life:
Abortion-on-demand, which has claimed the lives of more than 55 million unborn children, has remained the law of the land for 40 years. Roe is a sad commentary on our society’s attitudes toward women and their unborn children. Instead of helping and empowering mothers, our society funnels them to the nearest abortion clinic.
In our society, no mother should ever feel like abortion is her only option and no unborn child should ever be considered ‘expendable.’ Yet every year, abortion takes the lives of more than 1.2 million unborn children, leaving their mothers susceptible to emotional and physical risks – and all of this is done under the banners of ‘choice’ and ‘reproductive freedom.’
These terms, and their deadly consequences, not only degrade women, they dehumanize all humankind. Roe is an assault on the very foundation of our country–the principle that life is the most fundamental of all human rights.
The right-to-life movement remains more committed than ever to protecting unborn children and providing compassionate, life-affirming alternatives to their mothers.
Our humanity is not defined by the atrocities that have been committed throughout history, but by the shining light of those who recognize injustice and refuse to be complicit through silence. What profoundly scares abortion supporters gives us enormous confidence in the future: young people are more and more pro-life.
As the next generation stands up for mothers and their unborn children, we know that the days of Roe are numbered.
NARAL President: Pro-Lifers “Gaining Ground” on Abortion
In an email to her group’s supporters, NARAL president Nancy Keenan lamented that the pro-life movement is “gaining ground” on abortion.
Today is the 40th anniversary of the historic Roe v. Wade decision — which granted women the power to control their own reproductive lives and futures.
And while I wish we could simply celebrate today, the fact is that Roe v. Wade was only the start of the fight for our reproductive freedom, not the end.
Will you make a generous donation to NARAL Pro-Choice America? Your support today shows that you understand we must keep fighting.
Because, …, this constitutional right has been under attack for 40 years. And, as I’m sure you know… radical anti-choice politicians are gaining far too much ground in the states.
Just consider these frightening statistics:
87 percent of U.S. counties have no abortion provider…
111 abortion restrictions were enacted in the states in 2011 and 2012 alone…
33 states have laws that subject women seeking abortion services to biased-counseling requirements and/or mandatory delays… and
45 states and the District of Columbia have laws subjecting abortion providers to burdensome restrictions not imposed on other medical professionals.
Can I count on you to make a contribution right now to help us turn the tide on this dangerous trend?
 
Unborn can be seen by ultrasound and their heartbeat can be heard on monitor
I don’t have the stats but do you know what percentage of abortions are committed before they’re large enough to appear on ultrasound? I think heartbeat can be detected after 5 weeks.
 
Science actually refers to various stages of development. There are embryos and fetuses for instance. And then there are people who are known as children and adults. And civil law for a land determines human personhood rights and determines how the scales tip between women’s rights and the rights of the unborn since unfortunately the 2 don’t always balance out equally. So the legal rights of one must be determined to take precedence sometimes over the other. It’s just a fact of life and reality in this imperfect world we live in called earth. It’s not called heaven on earth for a reason.
More hand waving to justify evil.
 
I don’t have the stats but do you know what percentage of abortions are committed before they’re large enough to appear on ultrasound? I think heartbeat can be detected after 5 weeks.
CDC said in 2003 26% of abortions took place before 6 weeks gestation and I think that is the earliest abortion is recorded. Heartbeat can be detected at 5 weeks
 
Science actually refers to various stages of development. There are embryos and fetuses for instance. And then there are people who are known as children and adults. And civil law for a land determines human personhood rights and determines how the scales tip between women’s rights and the rights of the unborn since unfortunately the 2 don’t always balance out equally. So the legal rights of one must be determined to take precedence sometimes over the other. It’s just a fact of life and reality in this imperfect world we live in called earth. It’s not called heaven on earth for a reason.
Every distinct human individual goes through various stages of development but only one point of beginning. Every human being has a beginning, and we all of us go through the same stages of development.

Every human individual goes through the same stages of development, once they have begun as a new and distinct individual of the human species—embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, toddler, pre-schooler, adolescent, young adult, mature adult, elderly. If one wishes to separate human beings from their human rights by stages of development, no one is safe.

One might draw a line at 12 year olds and another at 65 year olds, and say that every human between those lines is a legal person. Outside those lines, they are subject to termination, at the whim of others. We are not so far from that scenario.
 
Top 10 Reasons to Oppose Roe v. Wade Supreme Court Decision
10. Roe was a decision that came out of the Sexual Revolution of the 1960s
The Court decided with Griswold v. Connecticut that there is “right of privacy” in the 14th Amendment and the “penumbra” of the Bill of Rights based on a “feeling.”

9. Roe was based on lies

Norma McCorvey, the “Jane Roe” in this case, was persuaded by activist lawyers that as a young single mother, she should file an affidavit saying she had a right to abortion. She said that she had been raped, which was not true, and that she did not want to keep the baby. However, this affidavit was never actually signed.

8. Roe was not a strictly constitutional decision

The text of the Constitution from the framers was not the context for this decision; rather, a socio-political manifesto was. John Hart Ely is a scholarly example of someone who, even though he was in favor of abortion, did not like how the Court came up with the decision. The decision actually relied on history, medicine, and the philosophy/theology/sociology of abortion, but not the Constitution. By deciding what the law should be, this was a badly decided law, said Ely. It was a constitutional upheaval. Thus, the legacy of Roe and abortion in the Constitution is distorted.

7. Roe was an overreach of constitutional ruling

In deciding Roe, the Court struck down the entire chapter of abortion statutes in Texas. Thus, it was deemed unconstitutional to protect a woman from a forced abortion, as was outlawing live-birth abortions. Even the provision which made death by abortion a homicide, with the gross negligence of doctors being criminalized, was struck down. The Court did not say why, though. Laws limiting or restricting abortion were then struck down, including the requirement that a physician perform an abortion. Until it was later enjoined, public funding went toward abortions. There was even forced participation in abortions and sterilizations, until Congress intervened to pass the Church amendments. This all came back to abortion supposedly being a fundamental right.

6. The Court set to examine “what history reveals about attitudes toward abortion over the centuries”

The Court started with ancient practices, even though these practices did not have much to do with American constitutional law. In doing so, the Court was trying to pretend that there was a serious view of history to engage in as to why the 14th Amendment protected the right of privacy. There was a solid perception that there has been no fundamental right to abortion in Western law, even if abortion had been tolerated or permitted. Thus, the Court had not proved what it should have but still went used the history of abortion in its arguments. Further, the Court mentioned that statutes on abortion had been fairly recent in America. However, until around 1825 or 1850, there was judge-made common law regarding abortion. Between 1825 and 1970, every state had codified criminal statutes on abortion.

5. Roe scorned and dismissed medical ethics

The Court was asked about the Hippocratic Oath but ultimately dismissed it having any consideration, since it was seen as the minority view.

4. Roe is bad medicine

The Court broke up pregnancy into three trimesters. There was no regulation in the first trimester, some regulations in the second trimester, and regulation to the extent that the states could limit abortion in the third trimester. However, there had to be an exception made for the life or the health of the mother. What defined “health” of the mother? Anything that the doctor and the woman decided. Thus, abortion was truly available on demand, as long as you could get a doctor to sign off on it. Some doctors were willing to sign off on reasons such as being able to attend a rock concert.

3. Roe is on a collision course with itself

There is great issue with the trimester framework. Viability was said to be at the beginning at the third trimester, at 28 weeks. However, this is all based upon changing technology. Babies are living outside the womb younger and younger, some at even 22 or 23 weeks.

2. Roe demeans women

The Court actually stated that the decision was made based upon how people apparently have made their decisions and organized their lives based on abortion, particularly depending on abortion. Harry Blackmun, who authored the decision, also stated that “Roe embodied the hopes and visions of every woman in this country.”

1. There have been 56 million legal abortions since Roe

Of those 56 million legal abortions, 16 million were performed on African-American babies. One in four children has been aborted, which speaks to a growing economic issue.

I already knew that Roe was a bad decision. But I did not know how bad it was. Hopefully these eye-opening presentations by Aden and Professor Collett may be shared in order to educate people as to what Roe was really all about. What I took away from this discussion was that when people are “celebrating” Roe v. Wade, they are not only celebrating the destruction of 56 million babies murdered in the womb, but also celebrating a Supreme Court decision that was based not on the Constitution, but on a “feeling,” on a “socio-political manifesto.” It is bad medicine and is beyond overreaching. And now such a decision is the law of the land. Roe v. Wade‘s legacy should not be a “celebration,” but rather the realization of how imperative it is that this law is struck down.

To hear about Aden’s reasons more in depth and Professor Collett’s analysis on the “feminist case against abortion,” I highly encourage you to check out the recorded debate. Please feel free to comment with what you found to be the most compelling reasons against Roe and also your thoughts on Professor Collett’s thoughtful analysis.
bit.ly/WlraN
 
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