Roe v. Wade at 40: Most Oppose Overturning Abortion Decision

[BroomWagon]

Top 10 Reasons to Oppose Roe v. Wade Supreme Court Decision

bit.ly/WlraN

I was hearing on the radio that one can read the wkipedia article on Roe V. Wade, it’s confusing law and the justices may not have envisioned it would end up this way.

 

[BroomWagon]

Every distinct human individual goes through various stages of development but only one point of beginning. Every human being has a beginning, and we all of us go through the same stages of development.

Every human individual goes through the same stages of development, once they have begun as a new and distinct individual of the human species—embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, toddler, pre-schooler, adolescent, young adult, mature adult, elderly. If one wishes to separate human beings from their human rights by stages of development, no one is safe.

One might draw a line at 12 year olds and another at 65 year olds, and say that every human between those lines is a legal person. Outside those lines, they are subject to termination, at the whim of others. We are not so far from that scenario.

CMatt25 simply does not believe all men are created equal as Obama was saying. As Lincoln said, as Dr. King said and as the Declaration of Independence says.

As for me, I will hear about an abortionist who has taken over 50,000 lives, if the left finds it impressive that these lives have been torn to pieces, not much I can do but pray,.

 

[Dawnia]

Here’s a problem though. Under your scenario, women in CA, IL, or NY would then have more rights than those in OK, TX, WY, etc. Maybe though a difference between you and I is that not just men but I believe all women are **created equal **and should have the same right regardless of which state they were born or reside in. And if the civil law of the land (Look Computer Geek I didn’t say the “p”/“b” words ) is choice as it was interpreted to be by the US SCOTUS a full 4 decades ago, then all women should have that civil right imo regardless of their place of birth or current residence.

If everyone is created equally then the mother & child are both equal and one should not be allowed to kill the other.

 

[BroomWagon]

Every distinct human individual goes through various stages of development but only one point of beginning. Every human being has a beginning, and we all of us go through the same stages of development.

Every human individual goes through the same stages of development, once they have begun as a new and distinct individual of the human species—embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, toddler, pre-schooler, adolescent, young adult, mature adult, elderly. If one wishes to separate human beings from their human rights by stages of development, no one is safe.

One might draw a line at 12 year olds and another at 65 year olds, and say that every human between those lines is a legal person. Outside those lines, they are subject to termination, at the whim of others. We are not so far from that scenario.

Oh dear, someone brought up the blob of cells argument. This person would be happy supporting slavery.

 

[BroomWagon]

Every distinct human individual goes through various stages of development but only one point of beginning. Every human being has a beginning, and we all of us go through the same stages of development.

Every human individual goes through the same stages of development, once they have begun as a new and distinct individual of the human species—embryo, fetus, newborn, infant, toddler, pre-schooler, adolescent, young adult, mature adult, elderly. If one wishes to separate human beings from their human rights by stages of development, no one is safe.

One might draw a line at 12 year olds and another at 65 year olds, and say that every human between those lines is a legal person. Outside those lines, they are subject to termination, at the whim of others. We are not so far from that scenario.

Actually, I think it’s great Obama and people like CMatt25 decide on who has a right to live and die! Oh, wait, he said something about rights.

Tell you what, New York, California, New Jersey, Illinois at this point in time can decide for themselves but they don’t speak for many other states in the Union. CMatt just uses flawed logic of the US Supreme Court and wishes to impose it on everyone. Liberalism.

 

[CMatt25]

If everyone is created equally then the mother & child are both equal and one should not be allowed to kill the other.

Maybe everyone in the USA doesn’t define embryo and fetus and child and adult men and women and persons and murder as the Catholic Church does.

 

[dnar]

Abortion has got to be humanity’s greatest sin.

 

[Dawnia]

Maybe everyone in the USA doesn’t define embryo and fetus and child and adult men and women and persons and murder as the Catholic Church does.

But you just said that everyone is CREATED EQUAL. A human in the embryonic stage of development is CREATED.

There were people who didn’t think that [insert any group] were people either.

Then I should get to kill you, because I don’t think you’re a person.

 

[Morwenna]

**Maybe everyone in the USA doesn’t define **embryo and fetus and child and adult men and women and persons and murder as the Catholic Church does.

To be blunt … so what?

For a long period of time, not everyone in the USA defined people with a certain ethnic ancestry as a “person”. And not everyone in the USA considered it murder when a slave of such ethnic ancestry was murdered.

On a happier note, all those who said “but, but, but … not everyone agrees that they are people!” lost hands-down … thanks be to God!

 

[CMatt25]

But you just said that everyone is CREATED EQUAL. A human in the embryonic stage of development is CREATED.

There were people who didn’t think that [insert any group] were people either.

Then I should get to kill you, because I don’t think you’re a person.

In the post you quoted of mine I said I believe all women are created equal. i believe all men are too. But I don’t define embryos, fetuses, or even unborn or born children as men or women.

Yes but the discussion is not about “insert any group”.

 

[BroomWagon]

To be blunt … so what?

For a long period of time, not everyone in the USA defined people with a certain ethnic ancestry as a “person”. And not everyone in the USA considered it murder when a slave of such ethnic ancestry was murdered.

On a happier note, all those who said “but, but, but … not everyone agrees that they are people!” lost hands-down … thanks be to God!

Lost… after 300 years of slavery and another 100 of trying to give everyone equal rights… but

“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ’We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.’” (Martin Luther King Jr.)

catalystquotes.com/2013/01/21/martin-luther-king-jr/

 

[Dawnia]

In the post you quoted of mine I said I believe all women are created equal. i believe all men are too. But I don’t define embryos, fetuses, or even unborn or born children as men or women.

Yes but the discussion is not about “insert any group”.

You seriously have a different definition of created than people do.

 

[Dawnia]

To be blunt … so what?

For a long period of time, not everyone in the USA defined people with a certain ethnic ancestry as a “person”. And not everyone in the USA considered it murder when a slave of such ethnic ancestry was murdered.

On a happier note, all those who said “but, but, but … not everyone agrees that they are people!” lost hands-down … thanks be to God!

 

[CMatt25]

To be blunt … so what?

For a long period of time, not everyone in the USA defined people with a certain ethnic ancestry as a “person”. And not everyone in the USA considered it murder when a slave of such ethnic ancestry was murdered.

On a happier note, all those who said “but, but, but … not everyone agrees that they are people!” lost hands-down … thanks be to God!

Here we go again. Changing the topic to slavery and such. The issue is legal abortion choice in the United Sates of America. So if Catholics want to talk about slavery and ethnic groups on a Roe thread, I’m not going to confuse the issues and compare apples to oranges. I’ll just say I believe we each can make our personal choice and decision about the issue of abortion and Roe v Wade at 40… But I am not about to presume I can walk in every woman’s shoes on that issue. . Enjoy your discussion about slavery and ethnic groups…

 

[CMatt25]

Here we go again. Changing the topic to slavery and such. The issue is legal abortion choice in the United Sates of America. So if Catholics want to talk about slavery and ethnic groups on a Roe thread, I’m not going to confuse the issues and compare apples to oranges. I’ll just say I believe we each can make our personal choice and decision about abortion and Roe v Wade. But I am not about to presume I can walk in every woman’s shoes on that issue. Enjoy your discussion about slavery and ethnic groups…

 

[Morwenna]

Here we go again. Changing the topic to slavery and such. The issue is legal abortion choice in the United Sates of America. So if Catholics want to talk about slavery on a Roe thread, I’ll just say I believe we each can make our personal choice and decision about the issue of abortion. But I am not about to presume I can walk in every woman’s shoes. Enjoy your discussion about slavery.

Good grief, CMatt … it’s not “a discussion about slavery.” It’s a discussion about humanity and personhood.

The point is that it’s not fine and dandy to have the “personal choice” to define certain groups as being “not really people”. In your prior post that I responded to, you mentioned that not everyone in the USA agrees with the definition of “person”… the point is, earlier in our history, some people “personally chose” to define people on the basis of of ethnicity. Some people today want to “personally choose” to define people by age or stage of development.

The point is that we don’t have to wait until “everyone agrees” to defend certain marginalized classes of human beings.

Sometimes, we have to do the right thing, even when it’s painful and not “agreeable.”

.

 

[Morwenna]

I see that post #92 was edited while I was composing my reply … oh, well.

 

[JimG]

Maybe everyone in the USA doesn’t define embryo and fetus and child and adult men and women and persons and murder as the Catholic Church does.

In other words, words have no meaning. I say embryo, you say banana; I say fetus, you say some possibly non-human organism; I say a 12 year old is a human being, and so is a 65 year old. But since words have no meaning, we can just define their humanity out of existence. They are so much easier to kill when redefined.

Of course, defining unborn human beings as non-human does pose some problems. Embryology textbooks presume that human beings do have a beginning, and that the text is the study of human development. Nihilism hasn’t overcome reason entirely, but Professor Singer is making inroads.

By the same token, since words have no meaning, what the authors of the Constitution meant to say when they wrote the document is entirely irrelevant to some (un)constitutional academics. It doesn’t matter what the authors meant. It matters what WE mean. So why bother writing any laws? We end up with a nation of men, not laws, anyway, in a regime where words and laws can be manipulated at will to mean what we want, rather than what legislators meant. It puts us all at risk, of course. We have no recourse, because the meaning of words can be changed at will. It’s a flight from reason.

 

[BroomWagon]

Here we go again. Changing the topic to slavery and such. The issue is legal abortion choice in the United Sates of America. So if Catholics want to talk about slavery and ethnic groups on a Roe thread, I’m not going to confuse the issues and compare apples to oranges. I’ll just say I believe we each can make our personal choice and decision about the issue of abortion and Roe v Wade at 40… But I am not about to presume I can walk in every woman’s shoes on that issue. . Enjoy your discussion about slavery and ethnic groups…

theatlantic.com/business/archive/2009/06/the-war-on-the-war-on-abortion/18581/

Atlantic Magazine even compares abortion and slavery in this editorial.

But in this case, I think the analogy to slavery is important, for two reasons. First of all, it was the last time we had an extended, society-wide debate about personhood. And second of all, as now, there were structural political reasons that it was much harder–nearly impossible–to change slavery through the existing political process.

Conversely, if Africans are not people, then slavery is not wrong. Or at least it’s arguably not wrong–if Africans occupy some intermediate status between persons and animals**, then there is at least a legitimate argument for treating them like animals, rather than people.

The difference between our reaction to the two is that now we know Africans are people. It seems ridiculous to think that anyone ever thought they might not be people. They meet all the relevant criteria for personhood in twenty-first century America.

Yeah, you sure aren’t comfortable about it. Atlantic (generally liberal) magazine even discusses it. So they have a lot more weight.

So that’s only your opinion, enjoy your genocide, you can’t put up an argument.

Oh, and Megan McArdle who wrote the argument is a woman, so it seems all you have is some tired old liberal argument of bringing up women’s rights, saying you do not believe all men are equal, trying to bring up the “blob of cells” argument from the 1970s.

Enjoy judging others rights to live for your rights to dispose of a human being. It is indeed a plantation mentality.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I was hearing on the radio that one can read the wkipedia article on Roe V. Wade, it’s confusing law and the justices may not have envisioned it would end up this way.

Roe v wade declared viability at 28 weeks gestation, but there are babies now surviving outside the womb at 21 weeks, that is nearly 2 months prior to the viability status in Roe v wade

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has said Roe v Wade desicion was ‘not the way the court generally works’ and that it ‘ventured too far in the change it ordered and presented an incomplete justification for its action’

old.usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/roevwade/SpCtJustices.pdf