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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Well, your the one who made the personal attack calling my post ignorant.
Now you say you don’t want to play.
OK
Jim
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Now you say you don’t want to play.
OK
Jim
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He_Man
Guest
This must bet your first presidential election.Yes I love we’re talking too about the challenges of women less fortunate than Ann Romney and I was glad she wasn’t actually offended and that must also mean there isn’t an Obama war on moms if she’s counting it as a birthday present.Another part of the interview which troubled me more though was what seemed to be a lack of humility to me on the Romneys part when, since we’re talking about entitlements, Mitt told the Constitutionally elected President of the United States of America to pack his bags. And Ann informing Amerca it’s Mitt’s and her time now as if they somehow are entitled before anyone has voted.
Don’t worry, this happens in every election in US history, by and large.
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rlg94086
Guest
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He_Man
Guest
I think it is great the youth of America take an interest in politics, but we need to make sure they have a a foundational basis of what goes on in these major elections.
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St_Francis
Guest
The world is a fallen place, and people will always fall through the cracks. There are ups and there are downs in everyone’s life.
In the Middle Ages, if a family worked hard, there were usually resources available for to keep the family–and part of that was that they didn’t need *cash *to keep them going. There were “common” areas that they could use.
But even in the Middle Ages, the husband might die or be badly hurt, and his widow left with children, and they would not be able to maintain the family on their own.
Then came all the dislocations of the Industrial Revolution. You needed *cash *to pay for things in the city. They had 3-year-olds working in factories–everyone in the family *had *to have jobs because otherwise they didn’t have enough to buy food.
And people fell through the cracks in that instance as well, as Dickens pointed out.
So we still have people falling through the cracks. We have had so many jobs shifted overseas that now in order to get a job, most people have to go into debt to get enough education to be assured of a job, and some people simply do not have the temperament for that type of work.
We have outsourced so much of our industry that it is ridiculous, and we have increased the need for cash. People are no longer *permitted *to live in a house without electricity, for example, or indoor plumbing. People who are on some sort of government aid or financial distribution like unemployment or SS (as someone pointed out) are not permitted to work–it is impossible for them to take day labor work. So we have to import people to do the sort of work that poor people used to do.
Some years ago, I read that for every dollar paid into the Federal welfare system, the poor received only 27 cents. ??? Where does the other 73 cents go? To pay for the several levels of people distributing the money: the federal level, the state level, the local level. That certainly doesn’t make a lot of sense, does it? If I give a dollar to the food pantry, at least 90 cents of it will go to a poor person; that makes a lot more sense.
continued…
In the Middle Ages, if a family worked hard, there were usually resources available for to keep the family–and part of that was that they didn’t need *cash *to keep them going. There were “common” areas that they could use.
But even in the Middle Ages, the husband might die or be badly hurt, and his widow left with children, and they would not be able to maintain the family on their own.
Then came all the dislocations of the Industrial Revolution. You needed *cash *to pay for things in the city. They had 3-year-olds working in factories–everyone in the family *had *to have jobs because otherwise they didn’t have enough to buy food.
And people fell through the cracks in that instance as well, as Dickens pointed out.
So we still have people falling through the cracks. We have had so many jobs shifted overseas that now in order to get a job, most people have to go into debt to get enough education to be assured of a job, and some people simply do not have the temperament for that type of work.
We have outsourced so much of our industry that it is ridiculous, and we have increased the need for cash. People are no longer *permitted *to live in a house without electricity, for example, or indoor plumbing. People who are on some sort of government aid or financial distribution like unemployment or SS (as someone pointed out) are not permitted to work–it is impossible for them to take day labor work. So we have to import people to do the sort of work that poor people used to do.
Some years ago, I read that for every dollar paid into the Federal welfare system, the poor received only 27 cents. ??? Where does the other 73 cents go? To pay for the several levels of people distributing the money: the federal level, the state level, the local level. That certainly doesn’t make a lot of sense, does it? If I give a dollar to the food pantry, at least 90 cents of it will go to a poor person; that makes a lot more sense.
continued…
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St_Francis
Guest
When it comes to our society, what we really have is a spiritual problem, and this, like so many other problems, hits the poor the hardest.
What are the symptoms of the spiritual problem? Drug usage–hits poor people the most. Dissolution of families–hits the poor the worst, but also makes people poor and keeps people poor. Greed–I know that the free marketeers will vilify me, but why does the CEO makes 20 gazillion times more than the people on the floor? A person can only spend so much money; it’s ridiculous for a CEO to be paid more and more and more while the people on the floor, *without whom no money would be made by anyone, *struggle to make it.
And there is the structure of our society: the government has taken on more and more responsibilities, from feeding poor children 3 meals/day to monitoring everything from what the schools are doing to now attempting to keep a farmer’s own children from working on his own property!
Everyone on this thread is right, it’s just that all of you are coming at the problem from different directions. There is no need to argue, really. Yes, there are some people who do not “get off their backsides and get jobs,” but guess what? There have always been people like that, and we don’t actually know why they don’t. Maybe they saw their brother shot to death right before their eyes or suffered some other trauma. Maybe the school sytem brought them down low.
Maybe they *are *just lazy people! But guess what? There are lazy people at all levels of society, we just support the ones higher up differently. Like the poor, the lazy we wil always have with us. Some of them stay on welfare when they don’t really need to, some of them create Ponzi schemes, some of them tweet outrageous stuff.
But the fact is that society is structured a certain way that makes things hard for people, and that is against the way God wants society to be. *That *is the major problem, not the little details.
What are the symptoms of the spiritual problem? Drug usage–hits poor people the most. Dissolution of families–hits the poor the worst, but also makes people poor and keeps people poor. Greed–I know that the free marketeers will vilify me, but why does the CEO makes 20 gazillion times more than the people on the floor? A person can only spend so much money; it’s ridiculous for a CEO to be paid more and more and more while the people on the floor, *without whom no money would be made by anyone, *struggle to make it.
And there is the structure of our society: the government has taken on more and more responsibilities, from feeding poor children 3 meals/day to monitoring everything from what the schools are doing to now attempting to keep a farmer’s own children from working on his own property!
Everyone on this thread is right, it’s just that all of you are coming at the problem from different directions. There is no need to argue, really. Yes, there are some people who do not “get off their backsides and get jobs,” but guess what? There have always been people like that, and we don’t actually know why they don’t. Maybe they saw their brother shot to death right before their eyes or suffered some other trauma. Maybe the school sytem brought them down low.
Maybe they *are *just lazy people! But guess what? There are lazy people at all levels of society, we just support the ones higher up differently. Like the poor, the lazy we wil always have with us. Some of them stay on welfare when they don’t really need to, some of them create Ponzi schemes, some of them tweet outrageous stuff.
But the fact is that society is structured a certain way that makes things hard for people, and that is against the way God wants society to be. *That *is the major problem, not the little details.
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Lujack
Guest
I was responding to someone.
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Lujack
Guest
What did Okies have to be ashamed of? What do migrant workers today have to be ashamed of?
Why should someone who is working long hours at a menial job be ashamed that this job doesn’t make enough money to put food on the table and keep the house warm?
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Pork_Roll
Guest
That’s the “free-market” at work. The share holders want maximum return on their profit and will pay the market rate for the best CEO. Personally, I think Santorum at least understood that the free market can’t on its own doesn’t recognize the dignity of the individual and generally can lead to great disparities between rich and poor. I think the government has a responsibility to protect the weakest and smallest from being dominated by large mega-corporations or the government itself. Everybody (including third world) should be able to participate in the free market, not just the Warren Buffets.
I think the health and wealth gospel preached in many mega-churches is a underlying philosophy behind the idea that we should cut taxes on the wealthest. Not that I’m saying that it’s a black and white issue or that it’s wrong to want a small governement. The government has a responsibility to the people to operate efficiently.
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rlg94086
Guest
In general? What an odd question. Are migrant workers on welfare? Were Okies all on the public dole? I know a lot of migrant workers who never received any government assistance. I don’t know any Okies, but you might be a lot older than me.
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Lujack
Guest
If they were, should they be ashamed? If they had done all they could and still needed help?
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Rohanfan
Guest
Thank You!!! And the voice of reason comes in to save the day. This actually made my day with what you said. Really, I am very sincere when I say Thank You.
Paul
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rlg94086
Guest
They should feel some shame at having to get a hand out from the government. There is nothing wrong with feeling some shame. It’s healthy. It leads people to work hard, so they don’t have to receive a government handout.
Do you think people should rejoice and be proud that they are receiving government handouts? Should they feel a sense of entitlement? Does everyone owe them?
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SamH
Guest
I was assuming you were responding to the post you quoted.
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SamH
Guest
You might be surprised how that is answered.
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rlg94086
Guest
I would be surprised. Generally, it’s unspoken and/or completely denied, as they continue to celebrate the growth of welfare and try to eliminate any shame from society.
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Lujack
Guest
See, I don’t think that they should feel shame if they are doing all they can. You go to bed at night and you sleep well because you’ve done your bit. Why should someone feel ashamed over something that they cannot control (again, this is meant for those who are doing all that they can)?
At the very least, I would say that the have-nots who are working hard but have not gotten out of poverty should feel no more shame than the haves who are working hard but have not eliminated poverty.
Everyone who is not working hard in some capacity (at a job or in service to mankind) should feel shame.
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Lujack
Guest
I’d like to have a civil discussion and an exchange of opinions. I’m not sure why I’m being treated like the enemy.
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rlg94086
Guest
Who said you’re the enemy? I love my misguided liberal friends…and my misguided liberal brother. Now, about the shame part. Evading the question by playing the hurt puppy, are we?
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SamH
Guest
If that’s what a person thinks when they go to bed at night most surely they are NOT doing their bit.
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