Romney: Welfare Moms Need 'Dignity of Work'

[rlg94086]

See, I don’t think that they should feel shame if they are doing all they can. You go to bed at night and you sleep well because you’ve done your bit. Why should someone feel ashamed over something that they cannot control (again, this is meant for those who are doing all that they can)?

At the very least, I would say that the have-nots who are working hard but have not gotten out of poverty should feel no more shame than the haves who are working hard but have not eliminated poverty.

Interesting outlook. So, everyone who isn’t on the government dole should feel shame, but those on the dole shouldn’t be ashamed.

 

[rlg94086]

I’d like to have a civil discussion and an exchange of opinions. I’m not sure why I’m being treated like the enemy.

You’re not the enemy. You are one of our best, misguided liberal friends.

If you can’t have a civil discussion and exchange of opinions without playing the victim, then maybe you shouldn’t engage in discussion.

 

[rlg94086]

Everyone who is not working hard in some capacity (at a job or in service to mankind) should feel shame.

Indeed. At least we agree on this part.

 

[nickiwool]

I do thank you Robert for your words. I will stick around, yesterday was my first day here and I had no idea I was in the news section. I see now where it says that and I now think I can navigate the site but at first hand I didn’t notice it I am sorry. I can now see why there can be arguments on this specific thread or in any of the news threads. Although I still believe things can be written in a nice way to not hurt someones feeling all while getting our point across. I am not targeting this specifically toward you but to all in the news threads.

-Nicki

 

[ComputerGeek25]

See, I don’t think that they should feel shame if they are doing all they can. You go to bed at night and you sleep well because you’ve done your bit. Why should someone feel ashamed over something that they cannot control (again, this is meant for those who are doing all that they can)?

At the very least, I would say that the have-nots who are working hard but have not gotten out of poverty should feel no more shame than the haves who are working hard but have not eliminated poverty.

Everyone who is not working hard in some capacity (at a job or in service to mankind) should feel shame.

The question becomes how do we break the cycle? Simply accepting the status quo and giving people unquestioned hand outs doesn’t help anyone in the long term. This is the issue that gets under the skin of many Conservatives/Independents/Moderates I have talked to.

If companies are paying peanuts and abusing migrant workers they should be punished somehow and/or be expected to raise pay.

 

[rlg94086]

I do thank you Robert for your words. I will stick around, yesterday was my first day here and I had no idea I was in the news section. I see now where it says that and I now think I can navigate the site but at first hand I didn’t notice it I am sorry. I can now see why there can be arguments on this specific thread or in any of the news threads. Although I still believe things can be written in a nice way to not hurt someones feeling all while getting our point across. I am not targeting this specifically toward you but to all in the news threads.

-Nicki

Welcome to CAF! I hope you find some answers and support here.

The In The News does get the most contentious, and we all lose our charitable disposition from time to time. We tend to be very liberal versus conservative and get into political sparring. You’ll find it in other parts of CAF, as well. For example, after having enough anti-Catholics attack a position of the Church in the Apologetics threads, some of us will lash back at an innocent question that sounds like an attack. It is still better than some of the secular fora out there that are outright nasty.

Also, keep in mind that text doesn’t always convey the emotions intended. The person reading the text will often assign unintended emotion into it. I try to keep that in mind when reading and when posting, but I generally fail miserably on a daily basis.

 

[rlg94086]

If companies are paying peanuts and abusing migrant workers they should be punished somehow and/or be expected to raise pay.

Though it is a little off-topic, here is my personal take on the migrant worker situation. We need immigration reform, like the Z-Visa idea floated by GWB. With it, we need the employers of the migrant workers to be required to provide the necessities, including health care coverage, while those migrant workers are being employed by them.

If a citizen wishes to do the same work, they should be treated in the same manner.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Though it is a little off-topic, here is my personal take on the migrant worker situation. We need immigration reform, like the Z-Visa idea floated by GWB. With it, we need the employers of the migrant workers to be required to provide the necessities, including health care coverage, while those migrant workers are being employed by them.

If a citizen wishes to do the same work, they should be treated in the same manner.

I agree.

The whole idea is to encourage people to get off of welfare and not need it. The US will collapse under it’s own weight if we don’t

 

[nickiwool]

If they were, should they be ashamed? If they had done all they could and still needed help?

I think that right there is my whole point. I just don’t believe anyone should be ashamed who actually need it. Who have done allll they can and still have no way to feed their kids. Now if it where just me and my husband I would have never received it. But it wasn’t, it was us 6. My husband and I and our 4 children. I shouldn’t have felt shame walking into that office asking to feed and shelter those kids. We had no parents to help us or friends we moved out of san jose ca. My friends and old neihbors where miles away. My adopted parents paid taxs and never even used me as a dependent. They paid out of pocket for my medical they didn’t have me on any assistance. Everything they did for me was out of pocket. They even always voluntered at shelters to hand out food and even donated tons of money all the time. They taught me to help others. My father walked around looking like a homeless man when he would walk to the store when he had enough to buy a cadillac escalade cash if he wanted to. But he didn’t he saved all his pension so that I was able to bury him and my mom when they would pass. And I did with that money. I didn’t even go in to accept the 250 bucks social security gives you. So now that I needed help so bad why should I feel and shame to receive it? During this recession just like the depression I am not the only one with this situation.

-Nicki

 

[nickiwool]

Welcome to CAF! I hope you find some answers and support here.

The In The News does get the most contentious, and we all lose our charitable disposition from time to time. We tend to be very liberal versus conservative and get into political sparring. You’ll find it in other parts of CAF, as well. For example, after having enough anti-Catholics attack a position of the Church in the Apologetics threads, some of us will lash back at an innocent question that sounds like an attack. It is still better than some of the secular fora out there that are outright nasty.

Also, keep in mind that text doesn’t always convey the emotions intended. The person reading the text will often assign unintended emotion into it. I try to keep that in mind when reading and when posting, but I generally fail miserably on a daily basis.

Thank you for the warm welcome This was great info I’ll keep it all in mind
I will try to also remember to understand the emotion behind someones comments. and that it might not be coming out the way I am reading it. Thank you again for all the great info!

-Nicki

 

[rlg94086]

I think that right there is my whole point. I just don’t believe anyone should be ashamed who actually need it. Who have done allll they can and still have no way to feed their kids. Now if it where just me and my husband I would have never received it. But it wasn’t, it was us 6. My husband and I and our 4 children. I shouldn’t have felt shame walking into that office asking to feed and shelter those kids. We had no parents to help us or friends we moved out of san jose ca. My friends and old neihbors where miles away. My adopted parents paid taxs and never even used me as a dependent. They paid out of pocket for my medical they didn’t have me on any assistance. Everything they did for me was out of pocket. They even always voluntered at shelters to hand out food and even donated tons of money all the time. They taught me to help others. My father walked around looking like a homeless man when he would walk to the store when he had enough to buy a cadillac escalade cash if he wanted to. But he didn’t he saved all his pension so that I was able to bury him and my mom when they would pass. And I did with that money. I didn’t even go in to accept the 250 bucks social security gives you. So now that I needed help so bad why should I feel and shame to receive it? During this recession just like the depression I am not the only one with this situation.

-Nicki

There are indeed a lot of people suffering right now. I pray that the economy improves.

So, the opposite of shame is pride and entitlement. Are you proud that you are having to receive government assistance? Do you feel that you are owed it? I’m guessing not. I’m guessing you do feel some shame in having to get assistance. It’s okay. It’s natural. The important thing is that you are taking care of your family. Please don’t mistake my comments for callousness. I just don’t think government assistance should be as easily acceptable as many think it is.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus_en.html

In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.100

By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need. One thinks of the condition of refugees, immigrants, the elderly, the sick, and all those in circumstances which call for assistance, such as drug abusers: all these people can be helped effectively only by those who offer them genuine fraternal support, in addition to the necessary care.

 

[rlg94086]

Thank you for the warm welcome This was great info I’ll keep it all in mind
I will try to also remember to understand the emotion behind someones comments. and that it might not be coming out the way I am reading it. Thank you again for all the great info!

-Nicki

:tiphat:

 

[Lujack]

Interesting outlook. So, everyone who isn’t on the government dole should feel shame, but those on the dole shouldn’t be ashamed.

Uh, no, I don’t think you’re reading me correctly. My personal outlook is that if you do all you are capable of doing, you shouldn’t feel any shame on that account, whether you are a have or a have not.

IF you’re going to say that the hard-working poor who haven’t broke free of poverty and need relief should be ashamed, then the hard-working middle and upper-class who haven’t eliminated poverty should also feel ashamed.

I don’t think either should necessarily be ashamed.

 

[St_Francis]

They should feel some shame at having to get a hand out from the government. There is nothing wrong with feeling some shame. It’s healthy. It leads people to work hard, so they don’t have to receive a government handout.

Do you think people should rejoice and be proud that they are receiving government handouts? Should they feel a sense of entitlement? Does everyone owe them?

People who are going to get a handout from the government when they don’t need it or haven’t done what they can to help themselves, yes, they should feel ashamed. But why should others, who are facing circumstances *beyond their control *feel shame?

That’s what I was talking about with the structure of our society. For example, I read something about how when a certain city enacted “green space laws” or something, the housing prices rose because land had to be set aside for green spaces. Then people working low-wage jobs could no longer afford to live there. Why *shouldn’t *those who enacted and are benefiting from the law help those people out?

And why should someone whose job was outsourced feel ashamed? Others are benefiting from the move, while the workers displaced through no fault of their own are suffering. Yes, I actually do think those who benefit should feel ashamed, and that those who are suffering should *not *feel ashamed.

I am not for a massive federal bureaucracy to manage helping people, but that is what we have, that is what people need to deal with. I think changes should be made so that the whole thing is more efficient–sheesh, I would refuse to give money to a charity which spent 73% of its income on itself and only 27% to those it is purporting to help–but until then, this is the situation, and I don’t think that people who need to follow the system the way others set it up should feel ashamed.

 

[nickiwool]

There are indeed a lot of people suffering right now. I pray that the economy improves.

So, the opposite of shame is pride and entitlement. Are you proud that you are having to receive government assistance? Do you feel that you are owed it? I’m guessing not. I’m guessing you do feel some shame in having to get assistance. It’s okay. It’s natural. The important thing is that you are taking care of your family. Please don’t mistake my comments for callousness. I just don’t think government assistance should be as easily acceptable as many think it is.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus_en.html

I think I understand now. I read back at some more comments and thought on it carefully. Of coarse I am not proud that I had to ask for assistance. I don’t think I was owed anything I was more grateful that our country can help provide food and shelter for my children. And because I knew how hard my father and mother worked, how hard my husband worked before losing his job, and how much we helped the community. It helped me put pride aside to walk into that office. I do agree though that there should be some shame on someone who knows well enough that they are sitting on it, using it unwisely and truly not doing everything in their power to get of it. I don’t believe it should be a long term use for anyone. That would strip the nation from being able to help others in need. Like you have mentioned if there is church, family and friends then I believe they should seek help there instead of trying to accept help from assistance. But when your with nothing left and no where to go and have to feed children then I say have no shame walking in and accepting help, but again only short term, if at all possible.

-Nicki

 

[rlg94086]

I think I understand now. I read back at some more comments and thought on it carefully. Of coarse I am not proud that I had to ask for assistance. I don’t think I was owed anything I was more grateful that our country can help provide food and shelter for my children. And because I knew how hard my father and mother worked, how hard my husband worked before losing his job, and how much we helped the community. It helped me put pride aside to walk into that office. I do agree though that there should be some shame on someone who knows well enough that they are sitting on it, using it unwisely and truly not doing everything in their power to get of it. I don’t believe it should be a long term use for anyone. That would strip the nation from being able to help others in need. Like you have mentioned if there is church, family and friends then I believe they should seek help there instead of trying to accept help from assistance. But when your with nothing left and no where to go and have to feed children then I say have no shame walking in and accepting help, but again only short term.

-Nicki

You understand exactly what I was trying to convey. When you’ve exhausted all resources (savings, family, friends, Church), then you do what you must for your family.

God bless you and your family from a fellow Bay Area native.

 

[rlg94086]

Uh, no, I don’t think you’re reading me correctly. My personal outlook is that if you do all you are capable of doing, you shouldn’t feel any shame on that account, whether you are a have or a have not.

IF you’re going to say that the hard-working poor who haven’t broke free of poverty and need relief should be ashamed, then the hard-working middle and upper-class who haven’t eliminated poverty should also feel ashamed.

I don’t think either should necessarily be ashamed.

Please read nickiwool’s response to me. I stink at explaining my viewpoints, but she was able to pick up what I meant. I’m guessing we actually aren’t that far away in our thinking on the subject, Lujack, but it is easy to misread each other.

 

[rlg94086]

I am not for a massive federal bureaucracy to manage helping people, but that is what we have, that is what people need to deal with. I think changes should be made so that the whole thing is more efficient–sheesh, I would refuse to give money to a charity which spent 73% of its income on itself and only 27% to those it is purporting to help-.

Somehow, we need to return to a sense of charity and subsidiarity. In other words, people need to give more to help others (not be taxed more) AND government involvement should be local instead of federal. I wish I knew the best way to get from here to there.

BTW…from a Romney standpoint, maybe some of the Mormon’s method of tithing and taking care of their community would be picked up by other faiths, including our own. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for Catholics to give as much as the Mormons do? There are so many more of us! Our Church’s various charities do a lot, but they are underfunded by us Catholics. The Church’s charitable works would thrive and lessen the need for bloated government bureaucracy, if we all gave more.

 

[nickiwool]

Please read nickiwool’s response to me. I stink at explaining my viewpoints, but she was able to pick up what I meant. I’m guessing we actually aren’t that far away in our thinking on the subject, Lujack, but it is easy to misread each other.

I agree it is easy to miss read each others comments.

St. francis was right. “Everyone on this thread is right, it’s just that all of you are coming at the problem from different directions.”

and sometimes its hard for us to explain what we mean but in the end it will all make sense.

-Nicki

 

[mellowcalico]

Yes she is, she sounds like an amazing, hard-working woman.

Most single moms these days are on welfare, so your mother is indeed, an exception.

Ouch.

I am a single mom and have never been on welfare. I own my home, save for retirement as well as college. I also have friends who are single moms and work as well and have similar stories. I think the “single mom on welfare” is a bit of a stereotype. I think what people confuse is that most people on welfare are single moms. But that’s not the same as most single moms being on welfare.