Russian lawmakers pass anti-gay bill in 436-0 vote

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Our culture in America did what? Prior to 1973, homosexuality was diagnosed as a disorder by the American Psychological Association. I was there before 1973. I knew there were gay people and what being gay meant, but thought nothing further. No one I knew wanted to dehumanize gay people.
Really. So the America you grew up in didn’t include the routine of boys labeling boys not uber-interested in sports “fa***ts?” Get serious. Even in the 1980’s the culture still tossed the humanity of gay people out with their disordered inclinations. I was there and I saw it happen. This is precisely why gay activists were able to make such a sudden turnaround in public opinion. Once people actually KNOW real, live human beings that have gay inclinations it is no longer possible to dismiss them as subtly less than real humans. Then the conscience comes to life, repentance is triggered and it is all too easy for people to go from the mistake of rejecting both the person and the behavior to accepting both the person and the behavior.

Truth is a city on a hill and there are filthy ditches on both sides of that hill. It does nobody any good to wade out of the filth on one side and charge up to the top only to fall back down into the filth on the other side of the hill. Best to stay at the top. In this case that involves recognizing the dignity of the person while not endorsing the legitimacy of the behavior.

Freedom does not require that we tolerate or endorse evil. It requires that we allow people to do that which is good, not that we pretend that evil isn’t evil.
 
Really. So the America you grew up in didn’t include the routine of boys labeling boys not uber-interested in sports “fa***ts?” Get serious. Even in the 1980’s the culture still tossed the humanity of gay people out with their disordered inclinations. I was there and I saw it happen. This is precisely why gay activists were able to make such a sudden turnaround in public opinion. Once people actually KNOW real, live human beings that have gay inclinations it is no longer possible to dismiss them as subtly less than real humans. Then the conscience comes to life, repentance is triggered and it is all too easy for people to go from the mistake of rejecting both the person and the behavior to accepting both the person and the behavior.

Truth is a city on a hill and there are filthy ditches on both sides of that hill. It does nobody any good to wade out of the filth on one side and charge up to the top only to fall back down into the filth on the other side of the hill. Best to stay at the top. In this case that involves recognizing the dignity of the person while not endorsing the legitimacy of the behavior.

Freedom does not require that we tolerate or endorse evil. It requires that we allow people to do that which is good, not that we pretend that evil isn’t evil.
Okay, I buy a lot of what you say though on the other hand, what many are saying is NOT to normalize homosexual behavior, not to accept it as mainstream behavior. Hence, we see meaures like this.
 
Well the measure itself isn’t actually that bad as i read it. As a parent, I’d rather prefer if the local gay activists were prohibited by law from recruiting in schools myself. That’s not necessarily incompatible with respecting the person. What is are some of the other sentiments expressed in the article, but not necessarily expressed in the Russian Law in question.

No doubt it’s a fine line. It’s much easier to demonize people than to argue principles.
 
They haven’t yet dealt with that problem or even recognized it as a problem. They take human dignity as a given without examining the underpinnings of it philosophically. I share your concern that this lack of foundation will cause the “human rights” house to collapse spectacularly and we will be left with an old fashioned power politics structure that demands adherance to the state religion (which won’t be called by that word) or face the consequences.

But that’s another topic. As christians, it should be our concern that gay people be seen FIRST as people, not as “gays.” At most, gay is an adjective, not a noun. It’s not a thing to celebrate if Russia considers the word ‘gay’ to be a noun with a negative meaning.
In the past, I worked with gay and bisexual people. Whatever they did after work was none of my business. I didn’t even think about it. Today, it is in your face 24/7. Openly gay? Yeah. So? What does that mean? That is crazy. I had no bad experiences working with gay people in the past, but now, all I’m hearing is that you are homophobic if you do not accept their self-assigned sexual identity. I do not cringe in the corner if a gay person walks by. I don’t run out of the room. It’s time Catholics woke up and saw this very clear, nonsense deception. Example: I watched a sports figure who came out on CNN. All he kept repeating was “Stop being homophobic.” over and over again. That was not a rational thing to say.

Can anyone here pick out the gay person in a shopping mall? Of course not. Wake up, my fellow Catholics. Of course, gay people are people with human dignity but don’t force me to watch 24/7 coverage of the gay agenda wherever I turn. I say force because it’s so pervasive. And for the record, I don’t care if half my neighbors are gay. Further, I worked in a hospital and there was no rule or form that stated sexual orientation. Nothing. The only time it might be brought up would be in connection to certain sexually transmitted diseases and only then, from a treatment and educational standpoint. I remember a large poster on the wall of the ER regarding certain STDs. Rule number one: “Do not have sex for a certain numbers of weeks (can’t recall the exact number) after your treatment is completed.”

Ed
 
So, what is anyone going to do about it? What protections are being denied? Gay propaganda in public schools, with kids as young as 5, gays demanding gay adult mentors in the boy scouts… I’m sure the Russian leadership is watching America right now. Hate speech? Remember?

Shunning? Where did you get that from? If I’m in a shopping mall and I see 100 people, answer me - which are gay? Honestly. I don’t know and I can’t tell. No one can.

If I spot a few guys wearing high heels and wearing little, black, short shorts, I still wouldn’t assume that they were gay.

There’s a lot of people that I avoid but none of them are gay.

Ed
Are you from Russia? Did you even look at the bolded statistics I just posted? See that 1 in 20 Russians believe homosexuals should be exterminated? Do you not pay attention to the gay rallies in Russia (And no, they won’t the over the top ones like in San Fran if you were about to argue that) which ended with police aggression? Did you see the photos of the aftermath? Citizens being allowed to pummel them? Police not intervening? Go ahead and continue to believe the Catholic teaching that it’s sinful, go ahead and continue to claim that the LGBT community has an agenda here that will greatly harm society…both are well within your rights…but how dare you just disregard such facts, and pretend that these attitudes in Russia and Eastern Europe aren’t troubling.
 
Well said.

I find we tend to demonize the past when it was not perfect by any means there were common standards that most observed and served society well. No longer true at all.
No longer true at all? Hold on. You’ve missed Cardinal Dolan? Archbishop Chaput? There are faithful Catholics out there or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

You are dead on about common standards. I lived in a community and no, we weren’t perfect, and no, we didn’t all go to the same Church but it worked. Yes, there were problems that needed to be addressed but they were not ignored. IT WORKED. Most of us WERE ON THE SAME PAGE. We had common decency, common politeness, modesty – everything some posters here hate with a passion. There are a few on the Left that are trying to lie about it - to tell us it was never like that. Wrong answer. IT WORKED. IT WAS FUNCTIONAL. Their goal - make everything DYSFUNCTIONAL, including cartoon characters.

Put enough of that in your head and you might think the whole country is like that. It’s not. The radicals who yelled “We’ll burn this country down if we have to!!” from the late 60s are still with us and so are their sons and daughters. As much as I want to love my neighbor, the reality is there are some people who want to do serious damage to the social fabric of countries around the world, especially the United States.

Ed
 
There were common standards like black people should drink from their own water fountains and go to their own “separate but equal” schools.

There were standards such as domestic violence didn’t exist and their was no such thing as spousal rape.

There were standards such as handicapped children should be sent away to institutions or kept hidden from the public.

And lastly, there was the standard of clerical sex abuse which was hidden at all costs.

Yeah, the good ole days. . . . .
Read the above, my fellow Catholics. A classic example of changing the subject. I’ve seen it used as a nonsense tactic many times to elicit emotion. To the poster - go ahead and start a thread about all of the above, just don’t try to derail this one.
 
Leaders that are not afraid of the dark side 👍
All those who like this. Please do not call yourselves freedom loving! It’s up to the parents how they want to raise their child, as well as it being none of the governments business. This shows RUssia still has a communist conformist attitude.
 
Read the above, my fellow Catholics. A classic example of changing the subject. I’ve seen it used as a nonsense tactic many times to elicit emotion. To the poster - go ahead and start a thread about all of the above, just don’t try to derail this one.
Oh please. Stop acting like it isn’t a valid argument because it would prove difficult to refute. The comparisons are valid. They all refer back to past disfavorable views of groups of individuals…which this is.
 
Yes, the pan sexuality today and the glorification of abortion and deviant sexual acts and lifestyles. The wonderful music that includes profanity and degrading things about women. The dictatorship of relativism that causes people to fear to speak about what is true. The empty Churches. Planned Parenthood worshiped in the White House. Homosexual Month that glorifies disordered desires and evil acts. Children now adopted by two men acting as mom and dad. Women selling their eggs for money. People calling psychiatric conditions physical deformities and engaging in mutilation surgery to calm their inner demons.

I could go on but I will stop there. Back to the hedonism and narcissism that so typifies modern culture and reasoning.
The sacred code, straight from the Hippies: “Hey man. If it feels good, do it.” My Hippie friend saw nothing wrong with fornication, had no respect for marriage and the Church? Pfft! Oppression, man. Yeah, those who want to feel comfortable about sin, after all these years, want our approval? What the heck for? Did we tell them to move in with their “old lady” or have sex with her, or smoke dope or drop acid (LSD - a powerful and dangerous hallucinogen)? They had parents who called them: “Son, if you love the girl, why don’t you just get married?” And the father got: “Dad. You just don’t understand. Everything’s different now. We’re more free!”

Free? No, in bondage to the flesh. In the early 70s, there was a bookstore right off campus that had a wall filled with books, from floor to ceiling, about Eastern mysticism. Go ahead, become a Buddhist or Krishna or pagan - anything - anything at all, as LONG AS IT WASN"T CHRISTIAN. Got to get those kids’ minds off that Christianity. Join a cult, become a Bahai or practice transcendental meditation. Buy other strange books written by the ascended masters or some disembodied spirit. Read some nonsense by Alan Watts, “populariser of Eastern philosophy for a Western audience.” Wikipedia

Freedom? No, just a bunch of excuses to enjoy sin.

Ed
 
Oh please. Stop acting like it isn’t a valid argument because you cannot refute it. The comparisons are valid. They all refer back to past disfavorable views of groups of individuals…which this is.
I’m not a huge fan of this law, and it dances upon a very fine line, but those are not valid comparisons. We can’t equate race and physical disability with sexual behavior. The same comparisons are being used in favor of same sex marriage.
 
I’m not a huge fan of this law, and it dances upon a very fine line, but those are not valid comparisons. We can’t equate race and physical disability with sexual behavior. The same comparisons are being used in favor of same sex marriage.
I personally think we can in the most technical sense. It’s a group of person, just like the others are.
 
Responding to the few recent posts…

Multiculturalism is a wonderful thing…within a balanced context of a unified culture as well. The way it has emerged in the last half of the 20th century and going forward, is competing subcultures and the eclipse of a common culture. It is a further radicalization of the United States, which is more than a geographical definition.

It used to be, when we taught history, including U.S. history, that the history of our subcultures within our boundaries was also taught, as an aspect of ethnic history. Today that is not good enough. It’s a war. One must separate, in equal status, as it were, one “country within a country,” providing that “country” with its own separate “month,” and capitalizing its “History.”

We aren’t several nations. We are one nation, with certain distinguishing cultural characteristics as a nation, which makes us different from other nations with similar features such as democracy and personal freedoms. In addition, we have ethnic subcultures within our nation, brought from elsewhere. When discussing the history of the United States, the ethnic subcultures should not be taught as competitive with the unifying culture, as if the subcultures eclipse the unifying culture or are in a battle with the latter for domination. But that’s the way it appears to be when you have separate “months” to “celebrate” every conceivable ethnic, racial, gender, sexual subculture in the land. It’s Balkanization out of control. Frankly, it’s also somewhat revealing about the need for “identity” affirmation. If you need your identity affirmed publicly, you aren’t too sure of it.

I actually think it would promote a certain accuracy to have a separate curriculum about the history of immigration to the United States, feature those lands, their cultures, and how that intersection was achieved within the U.S. (And good K-12 curriculum has actually always done that. – Poles, Irish, Italians, Jews from Eastern Europe, Hispanics, Chinese, Japanese, Southeast Asians, etc.) It not only teaches different cultures and aspects of international history, it also teaches about some of the dynamics of immigration, how those have changed, and what is common – and not-- about the immigrant experience. This is teaching historiography, not just Identity Politics.and polemics.

It would always have been better either to have no particular “celebration” of competing “histories,” or to limit those to weeks instead of months, or to have a combined month of Immigrant and Ethnic History. But the reality is that the U.S. population can be manipulated by guilt (with regard to racial issues in particular), and can also be bullied, because of political realities.
Yes, it’s become a war alright. In the past, we had communities, usually drawn along ethnic lines, but none of us were competing. We had French, Irish, Italians, Kashubs, Poles, etc. and they had their places to go to get the kind of food and drink that suited them and followed rituals and practices that were common in the ‘old country.’

Part of the problem is the new and radical gay activism that has taught the troops that all who oppose you: hate, are bigots, are phobic (?) and ignorant. On that last one, they have nothing to support it. I get to hear everything gay 24/7. The other part of the problem is 'radical individualism." Communities are to be destroyed. Families are to be destroyed. Except for a few groups, all the rest of us MUST embrace the perverse and dysfunctional.

"Where there is no communication, no culture, no shared experience, there is no society; because there is no people. There remains only a vast and foreboding, unforgiving sea of individuals ready to crash upon each other and the world with the slightest wind. Without a common basis, we have not the vaulted pluralism we’re taught to embrace, but Babel, in all the confusion and madness of a society with no binding forces. Already we are seeing the tensions of this fragmentation breaking out across cultures.

“Without common values and truths, such as in the socieites we find ourselves in, we find the fabric of society torn like Joseph’s cloak, by a great many tribes which would like to lay claim to the title of favored. Leftists, conservatives, anarchists, nihilists, secularists, objectivists, the shallow, the entertainers, the entertained, all vying for control against each other. Tribalism can indeed spawn differentiation, but without some common ground, and in the face of increasing jargon not only in the academies but in the cultures; we shall be left with madness. In the end this tribalism can only result in the decline of all their claims, and the alienation of one from the other. Babel is the happenstance when society tries to become God.” The Practical Catholic

Ed
 
Really. So the America you grew up in didn’t include the routine of boys labeling boys not uber-interested in sports “fa***ts?” Get serious. Even in the 1980’s the culture still tossed the humanity of gay people out with their disordered inclinations. I was there and I saw it happen. This is precisely why gay activists were able to make such a sudden turnaround in public opinion. Once people actually KNOW real, live human beings that have gay inclinations it is no longer possible to dismiss them as subtly less than real humans. Then the conscience comes to life, repentance is triggered and it is all too easy for people to go from the mistake of rejecting both the person and the behavior to accepting both the person and the behavior.

Truth is a city on a hill and there are filthy ditches on both sides of that hill. It does nobody any good to wade out of the filth on one side and charge up to the top only to fall back down into the filth on the other side of the hill. Best to stay at the top. In this case that involves recognizing the dignity of the person while not endorsing the legitimacy of the behavior.

Freedom does not require that we tolerate or endorse evil. It requires that we allow people to do that which is good, not that we pretend that evil isn’t evil.
Get serious? You know what? I was never uber-interested in sports, but no one I knew wanted to bully or beat up a kid they imagined was gay. Truth is not what you describe. Truth is the clear, right answer. There cannot be two right answers.

Gay activists lied to the people. You got that? Millions of dollars were spent on spreading half-truths and “we only want this” to “We want adult gay mentors in the boy scouts.” Recognizing the truth means telling people when they are being told false and misleading things as well. “Oh we just want to get married and live like any straight married couple.” BUZZ Wrong answer. The correct answer is “we need you to accept, celebrate and approve of our gay behavior,” Why? Nobody needs my permission to live how they want. Never have.

Of course, gay persons are children of God but they are setting up a system to make gay behavior totally normative, starting with 5 year olds in schools. Is anyone OK with that?

Ed
 
The sacred code, straight from the Hippies: “Hey man. If it feels good, do it.” My Hippie friend saw nothing wrong with fornication, had no respect for marriage and the Church? Pfft! Oppression, man. Yeah, those who want to feel comfortable about sin, after all these years, want our approval? What the heck for? Did we tell them to move in with their “old lady” or have sex with her, or smoke dope or drop acid (LSD - a powerful and dangerous hallucinogen)? They had parents who called them: “Son, if you love the girl, why don’t you just get married?” And the father got: “Dad. You just don’t understand. Everything’s different now. We’re more free!”

Free? No, in bondage to the flesh. In the early 70s, there was a bookstore right off campus that had a wall filled with books, from floor to ceiling, about Eastern mysticism. Go ahead, become a Buddhist or Krishna or pagan - anything - anything at all, as LONG AS IT WASN"T CHRISTIAN. Got to get those kids’ minds off that Christianity. Join a cult, become a Bahai or practice transcendental meditation. Buy other strange books written by the ascended masters or some disembodied spirit. Read some nonsense by Alan Watts, “populariser of Eastern philosophy for a Western audience.” Wikipedia

Freedom? No, just a bunch of excuses to enjoy sin.

Ed
Bingo!!
 
Do we really know what this law provides? The OP article is a judgment of it, and Russians generally, from beginning to end, without a single citation of it.

For whatever it’s worth, in another thread, another publisher described it this way:

"The bill provides for Russian citizens engaged in the “propaganda of non-traditional sexual orientation” to be fined, while foreigners could be arrested and immediately deported.

The law defines the concept as “spreading information aimed at forming non- traditional sexual behaviour among children, suggesting this behaviour is attractive, and making a false statement about the socially equal nature of traditional and non-traditional relationships”.

As near as I can tell, the prohibited acts are all considered gravely evil by the Catholic Church. One could question whether similar legislation in the U.S. would be opposed by the Church. I’m not sure it would.

Further, “spreading information aimed at forming non- traditional sexual behaviour among children” could be illegal in the U.S. even now, depending on the circumstances. Do it pictorially in this country, and you’ll end up in prison for decades.

The original article contains no real information.
 
All those who like this. Please do not call yourselves freedom loving! It’s up to the parents how they want to raise their child, as well as it being none of the governments business. This shows RUssia still has a communist conformist attitude.
It most certainly is the Government’s business to prevent the Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance from being given recognition in society. God will only be mocked for so long and his Wrath will eventually come upon those Nations that have enshrined and codified the Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance.

All of the Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance are in full operation in the West:

Legalized Murder (Abortion)

Legalized Sodomy (Gay “marriage”)

Oppression Widows and Orphans (Rampant Divorce, Welfare State, spending more money on War than the Poor, Government Bailouts for the Banksters, etc.)

Defrauding Laborers of their Just Wages (Corporate and Government Greed and Theft, Union Corruption, Offshoring of Jobs, Failure of Companies to pay a Living Wage, etc.)

In Russia today their are more legal restrictions on these Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance than there are in the West.

It seems Russia is the new West.😃
 
The “American legislature” can’t make these kind of laws since they violate the Constitution. Freedom of speech, assembly and press and all. Minor stuff, right?
The only part that would likely be unconstitutional is the ban on “gay” “pride” parades. We have lots of laws in the US that limit speech, solicitation and propaganda, especially when it comes to children. And as for “press” what is published in the US as “gay” rights publications, would have been banned as obscene just a few decades ago. It’s not that it suddenly got protected by the Constitution but that public morality standards fell.
When asked the question, “What is your personal feeling toward gay and lesbians?”
50% said they felt irritated and disgusted
18% said they felt a sense of alertness
4% said that homosexuals evoked a positive response
Some of these responses…I suggest you read up on your Catholic faith. Such bigotry that is starting to grow in Russia is NOT endorsed by your church. It’s going well beyond disagreeing with Gay Marriage/Adoption and is becoming a denial of equal protections and a shunning of LGBT citizens.
If those were the choices, which do you think a faithful Catholic should choose? If those were the choices, “irritated and disgusted” is the closest I could find. I am disgusted by homosexual acts and irritated that the agenda is to shove acceptance and “tolerance” in my face on what seems to be a daily basis. There’s nothing un-Catholic about that.
So . . . uh Ed. . . . What about Black History Month. . . you cool with that?
You expressed a disdain for Hispanic History month and I was just a. . . throwing out there if you were OK with Black History Month.

.
Personally, I disdain both events. There was an editorial yesterday or the day before about this. I will try to find it and post. We are spendign too much time “celebrating” things that divide us rather than those that unite us. Highlighting someone’s “blackness” or “hispanic-ness” is racist even if you are hiding behing a faux month name.
 
Get serious? You know what? I was never uber-interested in sports, but no one I knew wanted to bully or beat up a kid they imagined was gay.

Ed
I agree with this. I grew up in the Ozarks, among Fundamentalists and deep woods kids who were pretty rough around the edges. The only interest I had in sports when I was in high school was that the girls attended the games and it presented an extrarodinarily good opportunity to pick one up. I never played a single sport. Never, ever was I accused of being homosexual.

Now, I do remember one guy who was pretty well considered a homosexual and one girl who was pretty well believed to be a lesbian, and for very very good reason. Never did anybody give either of them a rough time at all. But neither did either of them impose their sexuality on anybody else, by word or deed.

I think a lot of this “back in the bad old days” talk is entirely overblown if not fabricated.
 
First, a disclaimer: I don’t wish to see any homosexual persecuted or discriminated in the work place, in the streets, in sports, in social situations, etc. Gays should be free to live as they wish, as couples, or in the homosexual lifestyle they feel they need to live. I do not fear homosexuals. But I am unequivocally against SS"M", adoption of children by gay couples and indoctrination of children in schools as part of state efforts to normalize homosexuality. It is deplorable that the mental health profession, the media, the judiciary and legislators signed on to gay “rights” to marry, adopt children, and to have the rest of society affirm that homosexuality is normal and natural.

Late last year, it was appalling to read the NY Times article, U.S. Backs Gay Rights Abroad. Where does this administration, I thought, find the arrogance to use the tools of American diplomacy including the potent enticement of foreign aid to promote gay rights around the world?

Then, it was interesting to read that Russia passed a law prohibiting gay propaganda within its borders, the subject of this thread. Well, I thought, here is a former arch-enemy nation, taking a step that is opposite to the stated U.S. objective of widened gay rights.

Some are quick to discredit Putin and denounce Russian legislators in passing the new anti-gay bill without considering that
  • in 1993, they passed a law in that country to decriminalize homosexual activity,
  • in 2003, the age of consent was maintained at 16, regardless of sexual orientation,
  • in 1997, transexual and transgender people can change their legal genders after corresponding medical procedures
  • in 2003, gay people can officially serve in the military at par with heterosexual people
  • single people persons can adopt children, regardless of sexual orientation, but only married couples can adopt children together
So, there is no legal recognition of same sex couples in Russia and same sex couples can not legally adopt children. And now, with the U.S. “exporting” gay rights to the rest of the world, using foreign aid as carrot, the Russian leaders wish to make it known that they are not playing the American game. Russia is a sovereign nation and Russians don’t have to completely embrace gay culture.

Notwithstanding her other social and economic ills, none of which is the topic or related to this thread, do these mean no lesson can be learned from or nothing good can come out of Russia?
 
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