S.F. Catholic Church priest bans girls as altar servers

[NeedsMercy]

Here’s one that will help. The USCCB with Georgetown University did a study of Men who were ordained to the Priesthood last year. One of the major findings was that 80% of those ordained were altar servers.

For every girl altar server is one less boy and as seen one less potential Priest.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/ordination-class/upload/Class-of-2014-report-FINAL-2.pdf

In a survey taken in 2014, there were 365 Ordinands to the Priesthood. Of those 365 men, 80% served as altar servers when they were younger!

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/ordination-class/upload/Class-of-2014-report-FINAL-2.pdf

No. This study is not addressing my statement at all, and the point of what Illo is saying. I suggested showing proof that having female altar servers dissuades young men from the priesthood. Illo said:

At the risk of generalizing, I suspect young men serving with young women might just distract them from the sacrifice of the Mass, and perhaps even from a priestly vocation.

starparish.com/news/official-statement-on-altar-boy-policy

I’m not sure I know all the ramifications of what he’s saying, but it appears he thinks that young men can’t focus on the Mass even if women are in the congregation. But for the sake of the thread, I’m letting that idea die right now and will entertain no further discussion on it. Back to the point. The USCCB study in no way, shape or form shows that altar servers that happen to be girls take away from vocations to the priesthood. As far as I know, there is no documentation supporting this. This is **not **the same thing as saying that 80% of ordinands in one particular class were altar servers at one point in their lives. Saying that “for every girl altar server is one less boy and as seen one less potential Priest” has, therefore, no basis in fact.

 

[Denise1957]

This case isn’t really about whether a community is progressive or traditional. In fact, I think this particular parish is probably similar to most parishes, a community of believers seeking to celebrate the Lord in their midst. This story, to my mind, is really about a man who has an ideological position he wishes to impose on a parish without really considering the experience and history of that community. He is able to do this because he is a cleric and the law gives all power into the hands of the clerics. The pastor can do anything he pleases in his parish and the parishioners be damned! This strikes me as little more than clerical colonialism. I have the power to impose my will, my ideology, my experience and view, and so I will . . . and you, the parishioners of the community, can’t stop me! There is no question that the pastor has the legal power to do what he proposes, but the question is whether he should do it without consultation from the parish or without considering how his actions may damage the parish community. His action doesn’t quite strike me as the model of leadership which Jesus uses in the Gospel.

The Church is hierarchical. That’s how our Lord set it up.

 

[Corki]

This case isn’t really about whether a community is progressive or traditional. In fact, I think this particular parish is probably similar to most parishes, a community of believers seeking to celebrate the Lord in their midst. This story, to my mind, is really about a man who has an ideological position he wishes to impose on a parish without really considering the experience and history of that community. He is able to do this because he is a cleric and the law gives all power into the hands of the clerics. The pastor can do anything he pleases in his parish and the parishioners be damned! This strikes me as little more than clerical colonialism. I have the power to impose my will, my ideology, my experience and view, and so I will . . . and you, the parishioners of the community, can’t stop me! There is no question that the pastor has the legal power to do what he proposes, but the question is whether he should do it without consultation from the parish or without considering how his actions may damage the parish community. His action doesn’t quite strike me as the model of leadership which Jesus uses in the Gospel.

But really you could say the same thing about a priest who decided he wanted girls to be included in the altar serving rotations? He is also “imposing” his ideological position on his parish. No matter what choice he makes, he is going to be taking a side. Keep in mind that this is a parish that does not currently use children as altar servers at regular Mass. They currently have adult altar servers. (The only girls currently in the group serve only at school Masses). He is making three changes 1) adding youth altar servers to regular Masses 2) allowing children who do not attend the Catholic school an opportunity to serve at the altar and 3) making that opportunity part of a father-son program and hence including only boys.

And how do you know that the pastor is doing this without consultation? According to the spokesman quoted in the OP’s article, many of the “complaints” are coming from people not associated with the parish (aka pot stirrers) and they have gotten a lot of support for the pastor’s plan. Do you need the pastor to get 100% before he makes any decisions? No priest would ever be able to get anything done that way.

 

[Denise1957]

Okay, I’ll take up your bait.

The critical answer is Yes, of course they do. Anytime we can build up the church through the catechesis of young people and get them intimately involved in the liturgy, we can provide fertile ground for their personal relationships with God and their desire to grow in their primary Vocation: holiness. When the Church comes alive like this, more people listen and respond to their particular vocations, perhaps to Priesthood (and Diaconate), but also to Consecrated Life, dedicated Single life, and Marriage and Parenthood. Where will more priests come from, if not from faithful families?

I suspect that’s not the utilitarian answer you are looking for. So, consider this:

That female altar server might be on the path to becoming your diocese’s next Consecrated Virgin. What’s that, you say? It’s the complement to the priesthood’s image of Christ the Bridegroom; she becomes a living icon of the Bride of Christ, the Church. Ordered to the example of Mary, she becomes Virgin, Bride, and Mother.

Remember, Mary brought us Jesus Christ, our High Priest, and continues to help bring us Priests, and the Graces of the Sacraments flow through Her Treasury. Even if we lose just ONE vocation due to the ABSENCE of female altar servers, that is too high of a price to pay. Just. One.

Catholics (in the pews) are intimately involved in the liturgy when they unite their prayers with that of the priest, and when they have the proper disposition, meaning that they both show and have interior reverence and love toward our Lord in the most Blessed Sacrament. If a Catholic is also in a state of grace, the graces that flow from the Mass are greater. Never underestimate importance of how we Catholics, in the pews, can affect the Mass simply by our attitude. Our humility and great love for our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is infinitely pleasing to God. The Mass is all about God.

 

[phil19034]

The Legion of Mary promotes a 1950s version of strict gender roles that I don’t think would fly in the 21st century. It seems to encourage women to be submissive housewives.

It doesn’t have be done in a “1950s” kind of way. There are plenty of ways of doing this with “modern gender roles” in tact.

But at the same time, what is so 1950s about praying the Rosary, leading Marian prayers before and/or after mass, attending Adoration, evangelization, etc? I think we need more of this in the 21st century

 

[phil19034]

No. This study is not addressing my statement at all, and the point of what Illo is saying. I suggested showing proof that having female altar servers dissuades young men from the priesthood. Illo said:

starparish.com/news/official-statement-on-altar-boy-policy

I’m not sure I know all the ramifications of what he’s saying, but it appears he thinks that young men can’t focus on the Mass even if women are in the congregation. But for the sake of the thread, I’m letting that idea die right now and will entertain no further discussion on it. Back to the point. The USCCB study in no way, shape or form shows that altar servers that happen to be girls take away from vocations to the priesthood. As far as I know, there is no documentation supporting this. This is **not **the same thing as saying that 80% of ordinands in one particular class were altar servers at one point in their lives. Saying that “for every girl altar server is one less boy and as seen one less potential Priest” has, therefore, no basis in fact.

From a purely mathematical point of view Altar Girls MIGHT have a negative affect on priestly numbers.

Here is why:

1. let’s assume that the average number of Sunday Masses per parish (including Saturday night) in the USA is 4.
2. let’s assume that each mass has an average number of 3 altar servers per mass
3. so that is 12 servers a weekend
4. now let’s assume that the parish has 48 kids signed up and they rotate through, serving once every 4 weeks.
5. let’s assume that the make up is 24 girls, 24 boys.
6. that’s 48 kids that the priest or group leader has to attempt to mentor. Anyone who is involved with youth ministry knows that one person cannot mentor that many children, so the mentoring pretty much goes out the window
7. what ever small group mentoring that does occur now only happens right before mass, and that’s assuming that Father isn’t hearing confessions before hand and that the servers arrive early enough for mentoring. (We know it won’t happen after mass because most priests speak with the members of the parish after mass.)
8. so the based on this example, the mentoring is down to a few mins, once a month.
9. based on this example 50% of the servers are girls, if we eliminate them then the boys in this example will serve twice a month, hence have a little more mentoring time.
10. also if you replace altar serving with another activity for the girls, they too will receive more mentoring time in the new ministry.

Finally, let’s keep in mind that we could easily have adults serve at mass and would most likely have plenty of volunteers for that.

But the reason we have children do it is an attempt to form youth discipleship and priestly vocations. True discipleship programs require small groups and mentoring. If the program at a parish isn’t creating discipleship, then why not try something new.

And I would argue that there are far better programs for girl discipleship than altar serving.

As an aside, sometimes I wonder if altar serving (boys or girls) is viewed by some parents as a why for their kids to give to the church without sacrificing more time?? I often see so many boys and girls up there looking like serving is the last thing they want to be doing. Personally, I would rather see one Altar Boy in the whole parish who is interested in being a priest, serving with adults, than having a handful of kids who don’t want to be there.

God Bless

 

[Mulligan2]

Not really. Every time a new pastor arrives, he makes choices. Sometimes those choices involves a different option than what the previous pastor chose. There are so many things that have options. It’s not “banning” to chose one option over another one.

I don’t see what the concern is with using the word “ban.” The word itself is simply a descriptive term, and in this case would be similar to the word “prohibit.” And in regard to this story, the word is correctly applied. The priest made the decision that girls would not serve as altar servers in his church. If a girl asked the priest if she was prohibited from serving as an altar server, the factual response from the priest would be “yes.”

 

[irishpatrick]

No. This study is not addressing my statement at all, and the point of what Illo is saying. I suggested showing proof that having female altar servers dissuades young men from the priesthood. Illo said:

starparish.com/news/official-statement-on-altar-boy-policy

I’m not sure I know all the ramifications of what he’s saying, but it appears he thinks that young men can’t focus on the Mass even if women are in the congregation. But for the sake of the thread, I’m letting that idea die right now and will entertain no further discussion on it. Back to the point. The USCCB study in no way, shape or form shows that altar servers that happen to be girls take away from vocations to the priesthood. As far as I know, there is no documentation supporting this. This is **not **the same thing as saying that 80% of ordinands in one particular class were altar servers at one point in their lives. Saying that “for every girl altar server is one less boy and as seen one less potential Priest” has, therefore, no basis in fact.

The Vatican has stated that males serving at the altar does encourage vocations to the Priesthood, why is that not enough?

Also, look at this from another point of view. We have a vocations crisis now, there are many reasons for the shortage of Priests, yet shouldn’t we do EVERYTHING within reason to help make that crisis go away? And to that end, the critical question is: Does the presence of female servers help foster vocations to the Priesthood?

 

[jeanannemarie]

It is also not your opinion that matters. As the Catholic Church allows for girls to serve altar, there are also reasons to support the idea that girls should serve. I think it bad form to assume someone is less read because they do not agree, and send them off with a dismissal to go read more to agree with you. Lack of respect for disagreement is one reason this topic becomes more heated.

As to the question of canon law, I found this.
catholicexchange.com/canon-law-and-altar-girls

The decision on the use of lay ministers is left to the USCCB. The USCCB has stated that it is the bishops decision on the use of girls as altar servers. A bishop can (and has) restricted service to boys. In this case, the bishop allows the priest to do what they think best. I think that is the norm, but a bishop can restrict it, or open it to both genders, throughout the diocese.

I will say only one more thing on this topic: Truth is what matters. One who wants to find it can find it with God’s help and personal opinions are highly over valued. Perhaps my statement sounds like an opinion, but my “opinion” is that one seek the Truth about these matters. Arguments should be founded in the Truth and I am not going into that here. If you should like to defend your position or opinion on the topic of altar girls, perhaps you should find Church teaching which defends your position. That said, sorry I interrupted the discussion and I will bow out.

 

[KSU]

… it appears [Father Illo] thinks that young men can’t focus on the Mass even if women are in the congregation. But for the sake of the thread, I’m letting that idea die right now and will entertain no further discussion on it. Back to the point.

It’s good that you will entertain no further discussion on it because you are the only person to whom it appears Father meant women in the congregation were a distraction to alter boys.

As for getting back to the point, it is this: Male alter servers is the norm prescribed by the Church. ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/ZLITUR19.HTM

"The rampant liturgical experimentation after Vatican II, much of which was not sanctioned by Vatican II, stripped the Rite of the Mass of much of its careful articulation of the Sacred Mysteries that had been developed over centuries… today, many men are not being drawn to service at the altar… When I was trained to be a server, the training lasted for several weeks and you had to memorize the prayers at the foot of the altar. It was a rigorous and a carefully executed service. All of a sudden, in the wake of Vatican II, the celebration of the liturgy became very sloppy in many places. It became less attractive to young men, for it was slipshod.

"The introduction of girl servers also led many boys to abandon altar service. Young boys don’t want to do things with girls. It’s just natural. The girls were also very good at altar service. So many boys drifted away over time. I want to emphasize that the practice of having exclusively boys as altar servers has nothing to do with inequality of women in the Church.

“I think that this has contributed to a loss of priestly vocations. It requires a certain manly discipline to serve as an altar boy in service at the side of priest, and most priests have their first deep experiences of the liturgy as altar boys. If we are not training young men as altar boys, giving them an experience of serving God in the liturgy, we should not be surprised that vocations have fallen dramatically.”
Cardinal Burke: newemangelization.com/uncategorized/cardinal-raymond-leo-burke-on-the-catholic-man-crisis-and-what-to-do-about-it/

 

[Elizium23]

I don’t see what the concern is with using the word “ban.” The word itself is simply a descriptive term, and in this case would be similar to the word “prohibit.” And in regard to this story, the word is correctly applied. The priest made the decision that girls would not serve as altar servers in his church. If a girl asked the priest if she was prohibited from serving as an altar server, the factual response from the priest would be “yes.”

Because it’s not a question of what’s banned, it’s a question of what is permitted. The Church permits, encourages and promotes the use of boys and men as altar servers. The Church permits the use of girls and women. At any stage, as has been explained, that permission can be revoked. It’s not a question of banning them, it’s a question of whether they are permitted at all.

 

[Mulligan2]

Because it’s not a question of what’s banned, it’s a question of what is permitted. The Church permits, encourages and promotes the use of boys and men as altar servers. The Church permits the use of girls and women. At any stage, as has been explained, that permission can be revoked. It’s not a question of banning them, it’s a question of whether they are permitted at all.

Once again…a distinction without a difference.

Not permitted = prohibited.

 

[irishpatrick]

Consider this:

Of all the females who currently serve at the altar, none of them will become Priests.

Also, for those needing further data, go here: on-this-rock.blogspot.com/2013/09/statistics-concerning-male-altar-servers.html

 

[Brandon_Cal]

And how do you know that the pastor is doing this without consultation? According to the spokesman quoted in the OP’s article, many of the “complaints” are coming from people not associated with the parish (aka pot stirrers) and they have gotten a lot of support for the pastor’s plan. Do you need the pastor to get 100% before he makes any decisions? No priest would ever be able to get anything done that way.

I have been to this parish a couple dozen times as I frequently travel to San Francisco. This parish is very traditional. The principal Sunday Mass is a Missa Cantata in the Extraordinary Form. This parish is the home of the San Francisco Latin Mass Society. It is also the home of a new Oratory of St. Philip Neri. They use the original High Altar, with no freestanding altar, even at their OF Masses (so all Masses are celebrated ad orientem). Just back in September this parish celebrated the first Pontifical High Mass, with Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone as celebrant, that San Francisco has seen in over 50 years. They very recently began opening the church daily until 5:30 PM for Adoration, and God willing, will be moving to 24/7/365 Perpetual Adoration within the year. Besides St. Dominic’s, Star of the Sea is the only Catholic parish in San Francisco that I know of offering scheduled confessions before every single Mass. Every OF Mass I’ve attended there included chanted propers instead of hymns, much of the Ordo is chanted by the celebrant, and the Gospel is always chanted. Given my experiences I very seriously doubt that the average parishioner at Star of the Sea minds the change.

I have no experience whatsoever with the school affiliated with Star of the Sea and so I haven’t the slightest idea how students of the school and their parents feel about this change. I also don’t know if the majority of students and their families are even parishioners at Star of the Sea. It could well be that this policy change will not affect even a slim minority of the kids there. I find it highly suspicious that the local news report wasn’t able to find a single parishioner to interview outside of the context of the school. According to the response by Fr. Illo on the church’s website certain parishioners were in fact approached by KPIX-5 for an interview, but since none were shown in the final footage I suspect such parishioners didn’t give the correct answers KPIX-5 was looking for.

 

[Corki]

I have been to this parish a couple dozen times as I frequently travel to San Francisco. This parish is very traditional. The principal Sunday Mass is a Missa Cantata in the Extraordinary Form. This parish is the home of the San Francisco Latin Mass Society. It is also the home of a new Oratory of St. Philip Neri. They use the original High Altar, with no freestanding altar, even at their OF Masses (so all Masses are celebrated ad orientem). Just back in September this parish celebrated the first Pontifical High Mass, with Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone as celebrant, that San Francisco has seen in over 50 years. They very recently began opening the church daily until 5:30 PM for Adoration, and God willing, will be moving to 24/7/365 Perpetual Adoration within the year. Besides St. Dominic’s, Star of the Sea is the only Catholic parish in San Francisco that I know of offering scheduled confessions before every single Mass. Every OF Mass I’ve attended there included chanted propers instead of hymns, much of the Ordo is chanted by the celebrant, and the Gospel is always chanted. Given my experiences I very seriously doubt that the average parishioner at Star of the Sea minds the change.

I have no experience whatsoever with the school affiliated with Star of the Sea and so I haven’t the slightest idea how students of the school and their parents feel about this change. I also don’t know if the majority of students and their families are even parishioners at Star of the Sea. It could well be that this policy change will not affect even a slim minority of the kids there. I find it highly suspicious that the local news report wasn’t able to find a single parishioner to interview outside of the context of the school. According to the response by Fr. Illo on the church’s website certain parishioners were in fact approached by KPIX-5 for an interview, but since none were shown in the final footage I suspect such parishioners didn’t give the correct answers KPIX-5 was looking for.

Wow! I want to go there now. Sounds like a wonderful, traditional parish.

 

[religioussoup]

This thread makes me so sad. WWJD? If there was a girl who said to Jesus, “You are my savior and I would be humbled to serve for you at mass”, do you really think Jesus would turn her away simply because she was a female?

At my church, most of the alter servers are girls. In fact, my younger sister is an alter server. I am proud of her for not being afraid of sexist stereotypes like in this article and serving because she loves God and not for any other purpose. I think she, as a 13 year old, should be allowed to serve.

She has no desire to become a nun, and her choice to serve was completely voluntary.

I think women should be allowed to display their adoration of God in front of the whole parish while aiding in the mass. I also don’t think they need to have a reason for it. They shouldn’t need the reasons of preparing for the nunnery or anything else. Most of the young men and women servers at my parish are there out of their own choice. Why won’t the church accept all who want to serve God, and not just those who can become priests?

 

[ProVobis]

I have been to this parish a couple dozen times as I frequently travel to San Francisco. This parish is very traditional. The principal Sunday Mass is a Missa Cantata in the Extraordinary Form. This parish is the home of the San Francisco Latin Mass Society.

Now that you mention it, it reminds me that Chicago has several parishes which say the EF as one of their Masses. From all indications male servers are used in both forms celebrated at those parishes. They’re trained to set up the altar before and after the EF is said, in addition to their other tasks. And BTW, all of them have communion rails.

 

[Pax2u]

This thread makes me so sad. WWJD? If there was a girl who said to Jesus, “You are my savior and I would be humbled to serve for you at mass”, do you really think Jesus would turn her away simply because she was a female?

If I saw Jesus I would say “You are my savior and how do you want me to serve you?” There are plenty of ways to serve the Lord.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

Fr. Illo responds:

frilloblog.com/blog/ef-homily-domine-non-sum-dingus
frilloblog.com/blog/pastors-laptop-altar-boys

 

[religioussoup]

If I saw Jesus I would say “You are my savior and how do you want me to serve you?” There are plenty of ways to serve the Lord.

I’m glad that’s what you would do. But that’s not the point of what I said. My sister chose to serve the Lord by serving for him at mass. Why is that so wrong?