S.F. Catholic Church priest bans girls as altar servers

[JimG]

I have a lady friend who happened to have received her masters in theology from a seminary with the nickname the “pink palace.” Females even teach there, I understand.

Or maybe it’s the same seminary you’re talking about. ??

Nothing wrong with women teaching theology, as long as they are competent and the theology is orthodox. In the past there were some seminaries that were apparently were permeated by a homosexual subculture, however.

 

[KSU]

So, statistics are now opinions. Okey dokey.That depends on the agenda of the person using the statistics. Did you know that according to Dear Leader, the statistics show that people are working again, health care is now afordable, our economy is just great, etc.?

I know of one seminary which had, for a period of time, the nickname the “purple palace”. I would hesitate to go from one seminary to all, or most, or even many, without something more that someone else’s broad paintbrush based on one. So would I, so here’s just one of many somethings more: GOODBYE GOOD MEN, by Michael S. Rose. Read it and learn.

Was there screening?.. Yes, but by the wrong people. Has the problem been resolved? It certainly appears to have been ameliorated; and it certainly would bear watching.

In trial work, facts count, and opinions tend to dissolve under effective cross examination. I have no problem dealing with facts; but urban mythology is just that - mythology. The trial was held, finally, by Rome, and no urban mythology was found; just ugly, endless FACTS. A verdict was rendered and, this time, unlike 1961, appropriate steps were insisted upon.

And as to McBrien, I never said he did not err; but neither his works nor those of Edward Schillebeeckx were condemned; Hans Kung had his right to teach as a Catholic Theologian pulled. Schillebeeckx and Kung had far, far wider reach within the Church than McBrien did, as well as any number of other theologians.

Don’t be so defensive; I was simply agreeing with your contention that there were other reasons beside alter girls for the drop in vocations.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

Nothing wrong with women teaching theology, as long as they are competent and the theology is orthodox. In the past there were some seminaries that were apparently were permeated by a homosexual subculture, however.

I’d guess that most female theologians want to teach the authentic Catholic faith. HOWEVER…

There are certain senior members of women religious groups (LCWR) who want Church teaching on sexuality to “reformulated, rethought for the World we live in”. :frighten:

 

[phil19034]

The service of women religious generally falls into tfour general charisms

1. Contemplative
2. Teaching
3. Mendicant-care for the poor
4. Care for the Sick

Unlike the relationship between service at the altar and the priesthood, service at the altar does not correspond to any of the charisms particular to women religious

If your concern is developing a ‘stake’ in the Church and developing vocations among girls, the activities should correspond to the general charisms

For Contempative religious, encourage Eucharistic Adoration
For Teaching, invite girls to help teach Religious Ed
For Care for the Poor, plan regular visits to soup kitchens and warming centers
For care for the Sick, plan visits to hospital and nursing homes to visit

In each case, the girls become just as much involved in the Church and as ‘stakeholders’, but they do so in a way that, unlike altar service, corresponds to the roles they would undertake as adult religious

This is well said.

As I have stated before in this thread, the MAIN purpose for originally allowing boys to serve at the Altar was to (1) foster discipleship AND (2) foster vocations. The Altar Boys were replacing seminarians after all. So the role of acolyte has always been tied to priestly training.

Now, I do believe that it’s not theologically wrong to have females assisting when needed, however, I believe that young girls would be better off in a program which exposes them to the day to day life of nuns and sisters.

That’s why programs like Legion of Mary, Blessed Imelda Lambertini Society, etc. are so much better for girls. They focus on praying the rosary, attending adoration, assisting Father pray all the intentions of the parish, be a Jr. Catechist (if already confirmed), help with the homeless and sick, visit Convents, etc.

Having a dedicated program for girls which promotes vocations to becoming nuns, consecrated virgins, sisters, etc. is much better than having them serve.

Boys and girls are different. They have different social issues and they have different vocation paths. Girls cannot become a priest and they cannot become a dad. Boys cannot become a nun and cannot become a mom.

The best discipleship groups usually utilize single sex discussion groups. Having separate programs can better allow for stronger discipleship and vocations, which after-all is why we have youth ministries to begin with.

God Bless.

 

[otjm]

Don’t be so defensive; I was simply agreeing with your contention that there were other reasons beside alter girls for the drop in vocations.

Sorry - that is not the way it came across. My apologies for using both barrels.

 

[otjm]

I have a lady friend who happened to have received her masters in theology from a seminary with the nickname the “pink palace.” Females even teach there, I understand.

Or maybe it’s the same seminary you’re talking about. ??

Um, I don’t think so. There was a few years back where the allegations were that one seminary (which was nicknamed the purple palace) had professors who were going to gay bars, among a host of other things. For a period of time it appeared that things in a few places were grossly out of control.

After the sexual abuse crisis got into high gear, some of the focus turned to how many homosexual men were in the priesthood. Guesses - and they were just exactly that - were anywhere from 10% to as high as 80%. And considering that something like 80% or more of the sexual abuse cases were between priests and teenage boys, one can get into all sorts of attempted nuancing, but I go by the “if it has feathers, webbed feet and quacks, it is not a horse” approach. I don’t pay a lot of attention to it, but I recall that at least one bishop has been "outed’. It is not for no reason that Rome has said that anyone with a serious issue (and I am not stating it exactly) towards homosexuality is not to be ordained.

Call me a cynic; I think Rome had to do that; but it also lends itself to the “fox guarding the chicken coop”, if there are more bishops who are homosexual or bisexual. Duress and blackmail are facts of life, as well as a tendency in some quarters to not follow each and every rule.

As to the “pink palace”, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman theologian teaching, if she is true to the Magisterium. I can recall one sister teaching Scriptural Theology and she was absolutely crackerjack - bright, knowledgeable, not into goofy scriptural approaches, had a wealth of knowledge and was exceedingly good at teaching.

If someone refers to a seminary as a 'pink palace" because there are women teaching there, it is for starters a sexist comment unworthy of any credence. Women are every bit as able to learn theology, research it, and teach it as men; and any comment to the contrary is not worth dignifying by a response. It most certainly is not reflective of the Church, nor history.

While one is not required to believe in the appearance of Our Lady at Guadalupe, if one actually understands what is on the tilma, one would understand that Mary is perhaps the greatest of theologians; approximately 1,000,000 natives converted shortly thereafter as they most definitely understood what she taught by what was written (as in icon terms) on the tilma.

 

[KSU]

If someone refers to a seminary as a 'pink palace" because there are women teaching there, it is for starters a sexist comment unworthy of any credence. .
.

No one EVER said, thought or implied that.

 

[Bballer32]

Thank goodness!

All of his statements seem correct and not flawed.

We have altar girls at my parish still but we are slowly moving away from that. My pastor has starting training girls to be sacristans (which is what they originally were taught to do). I support 100% that altar serving leads boys to think about the priesthood (I am an example ). I have also noticed that the boys in my parish do not like serving regular sunday Masses with girls because its “not cool”. Instead, they enjoy serving with the boys at the big Masses where we only allow boy altar servers. This allows them to connect and be comfortable within their own God given gifts.

God Bless,
Bballer32

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Thank goodness!

All of his statements seem correct and not flawed.

We have altar girls at my parish still but we are slowly moving away from that. My pastor has starting training girls to be sacristans (which is what they originally were taught to do). I support 100% that altar serving leads boys to think about the priesthood (I am an example ). I have also noticed that the boys in my parish do not like serving regular sunday Masses with girls because its “not cool”. Instead, they enjoy serving with the boys at the big Masses where we only allow boy altar servers. This allows them to connect and be comfortable within their own God given gifts.

God Bless,
Bballer32

And of course we should encourage boys to think that being cool is much more important than serving God.

 

[Bballer32]

And of course we should encourage boys to think that being cool is much more important than serving God.

You know what I mean

 

[ProVobis]

As to the “pink palace”, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman theologian teaching, if she is true to the Magisterium.

I asked if perhaps you meant “pink palace” as I’ve never heard of “purple palace.” And if you look it up the nickname isn’t because it’s filled with women. But don’t some Protestant ministers also get schooled in Catholic seminaries? It is my understanding that seminaries aren’t exclusively for single Catholic men.

 

[phil19034]

I asked if perhaps you meant “pink palace” as I’ve never heard of “purple palace.” And if you look it up the nickname isn’t because it’s filled with women. But don’t some Protestant ministers also get schooled in Catholic seminaries? It is my understanding that seminaries aren’t exclusively for single Catholic men.

I’m not aware of any diocesan seminaries where this is true. Maybe a “private” one?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

You know what I mean

I’m just tired of seeing the “boys won’t think it’s cool” comments pop up in discussions about girl altar servers as if it was somehow a valid reason for not having girls be altar servers. My eldest son tried to pull such an excuse when I told him to unload and load the dishwasher. He ended up loading and unloading the dishwasher for a week. What other people do or don’t do shouldn’t be your primary criteria in deciding if you will do or not do it. If a person objects to girls being altar servers they need to take the route the Cardinal did in the video Pro linked- focus on why it is important to have boys be altar servers.

 

[otjm]

I asked if perhaps you meant “pink palace” as I’ve never heard of “purple palace.” And if you look it up the nickname isn’t because it’s filled with women. But don’t some Protestant ministers also get schooled in Catholic seminaries? It is my understanding that seminaries aren’t exclusively for single Catholic men.

Nothing like crossing “i’s” and dotting “t’s”.

The pink palace was the one I referred to, incorrectly as purple.

As to Protestants, I don’t know; but I don’t see specifically a problem with it, unless someone trying to become a priest was not allowed in because of no room.

 

[Bballer32]

I’m just tired of seeing the “boys won’t think it’s cool” comments pop up in discussions about girl altar servers as if it was somehow a valid reason for not having girls be altar servers. My eldest son tried to pull such an excuse when I told him to unload and load the dishwasher. He ended up loading and unloading the dishwasher for a week. What other people do or don’t do shouldn’t be your primary criteria in deciding if you will do or not do it. If a person objects to girls being altar servers they need to take the route the Cardinal did in the video Pro linked- focus on why it is important to have boys be altar servers.

I agree with you. But until the priest is preaching from the pulpit and reaching out to the young men of the parish about the significance and beauty of the altar server, the young men will only go for what is cool and what isn’t. That’s the way they operate these days. But, as I try to do when I’m back at my parish, someone needs to be a model and talk to the boys in order for the “coolness” to stop.

I would also like to add that I personally think altar serving is cool. But that is not the primary reason for doing it

 

[Tigg]

Thank goodness!

All of his statements seem correct and not flawed.

We have altar girls at my parish still but we are slowly moving away from that. My pastor has starting training girls to be sacristans (which is what they originally were taught to do). I support 100% that altar serving leads boys to think about the priesthood (I am an example ). I have also noticed that the boys in my parish do not like serving regular sunday Masses with girls because its “not cool”. Instead, they enjoy serving with the boys at the big Masses where we only allow boy altar servers. This allows them to connect and be comfortable within their own God given gifts.

God Bless,
Bballer32

Our pastor does not allow altar girls for this very reason and believes all encouragement should be given to the potential little clerics with any obstacles removed. We are speaking of children here whose healthy development at a certain stage only wants to identify with their own gender. Our boys, at one point wanted nothing to do with girls and the girls wanted to play “dress up” in peace putting a sign on their bedroom door that said, “no boys allowed.” This is *normal behavior for well-adjusted traditional *families and it is only temporary. As they mature, they both grow out of this stage and learn to respect and appreciate each other. Can we just be patient with this short-lived attitude and not discourage the seeds that God wants to plant even in their young and immature hearts?

 

[irishpatrick]

I think it would be healthy for this discussion if EVERYONE remembered that this conversation (at its foundation) is NOT about boys or girls serving at the altar. The real topic is the Priesthood. Catholic Churches do not have to have servers; however, all Catholic Churches need Priests.

Therefore, the real subject is: How do we increase vocations, and will a male only altar serving rule help in that pursuit?

If switching to an all male altar serving rule results in just one extra Priest each year (across the entire USA), then it is a worthwhile change, because Priests bring us Christ!

 

[RushG]

???
You won’t* let* your daughter be an altar server?!

You mean…she wants to be an altar server, and your parish allows it, and the pope has decreed it…and yet, you will not *let *her?

:nope:

That’s just a part of being a parent. Our older daughter is an alter server and we are pleased at her interest in serving God. However, our parish has a seemingly casual connection with a Girl Scout troop, and my wife and I will neither encourage nor “let” her join due to that organization’s connections with feminist causes that we find contrary to our values.

 

[Elizium23]

I would also like to add that I personally think altar serving is cool. But that is not the primary reason for doing it

I think it’s cool too. I think the boys who serve at my parish are cool for doing it. I enjoy doing it myself. Jimmy Fallon thought it was cool and it jump-started his showbiz career. Why shouldn’t it be cool? What exactly is wrong with a little “cool factor” when it comes to motivating children to do something? I mean really - you get to mess around with wine when you’re underage, you get to light things on fire, you wear groovy clothing, you get to be right up there “on stage” with the celebrity (priest)… it is objectively cool if you think about it. No wonder the girls all get jealous.

 

[ProVobis]

Our pastor does not allow altar girls for this very reason and believes all encouragement should be given to the potential little clerics with any obstacles removed.

According to Cardinal Arinze, the Italians actually refer to altar servers as “little clerics,” nothing potential about it.