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NotWorthy
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Newbie,
The more I read post of yours and some very few others like yours, the more I’m reminded of Israel and Samaria.
The more I read post of yours and some very few others like yours, the more I’m reminded of Israel and Samaria.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
because the majority of them don’t understand…I guess James and Paul are contradicting each other (highly unlikely if you also consider them to be both inspired by the same Spirit) when James wrote:
I guess it’s a common misunderstanding among Protestants that Catholics believe in ‘Works Alone’. Which is not the case.
Just because Protestants believe in Faith Alone does not mean that we Catholics believe the other half (Works Alone). We believe in both. One is useless without the other.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Are our works important?
Just ask Jesus. Show me where Jesus says that we are to be judged by anything other than our works, and I may start buying into these newer traditions of men.
Just ask Jesus. Show me where Jesus says that we are to be judged by anything other than our works, and I may start buying into these newer traditions of men.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
((Paraphrasing))Are our works important?
Just ask Jesus. Show me where Jesus says that we are to be judged by anything other than our works, and I may start buying into these newer traditions of men.
We are judge by our deeds.
When he separated the righteous, Jesus said “when I was hungry, you feed me, when I was naked you clothe me, thirsty and you offer me drink.”
Sounds like deeds to me to the evil doers.
“Go the fires of hell, prepare for you and the devil. For I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me no drink.”
Our deeds through the love of God, we do them. Not by mere works do we do good works… but by love of God, neighbor, and self…and with God’s grace…
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NotWorthy
Guest
The way I had it explained is like this.
Our Faith is what Saves us (Brings us into Christ’s Church) where we become Children of God. As children, we receive our inheritance. There is NOTHING we can do to deserve this inheritance. And nobody can take this inheritance away from us. Nobody. Note: You’ll see Paul talking of this inheritance in numerous Epistles.
But, as Children of His Family, we maintain this inheritance as long as we remain in the Family. We can certainly blow our chance at this inheritance by disowning our family. This is a simple way of saying we can sin our way out of God’s family.
To Summarize; “Salvation, you can’t earn it, but you can sure blow it”.
Our Faith is what Saves us (Brings us into Christ’s Church) where we become Children of God. As children, we receive our inheritance. There is NOTHING we can do to deserve this inheritance. And nobody can take this inheritance away from us. Nobody. Note: You’ll see Paul talking of this inheritance in numerous Epistles.
But, as Children of His Family, we maintain this inheritance as long as we remain in the Family. We can certainly blow our chance at this inheritance by disowning our family. This is a simple way of saying we can sin our way out of God’s family.
To Summarize; “Salvation, you can’t earn it, but you can sure blow it”.
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newbie1234
Guest
I don’t understand the reference.Newbie,
The more I read post of yours and some very few others like yours, the more I’m reminded of Israel and Samaria.
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newbie1234
Guest
newbie1234;1898165:
2tim3:16-17 says I can be complete using scripture and equipped for every good work.If you read 2tim3:16-17, and need someone to explain it to you that is fine. To me, it says that I can be complete by using the scripture.
If I choose to use the scripture AND something else(tradition), I can still be complete. But I don’t NEED anything else.
I’m amazed with your flat-liner.
2Tim3:16-17 Says “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training…”
Yet you insist that TO YOU “it says: I can be complete by using the scripture” - which was NEVER SAID ANYWHERE in the Bible. This can only mean YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE. - of which Jesus warned us about adding or subtracting from the words…
How can you accuse others of something you are doing?
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newbie1234
Guest
Our works are important for our sanctification(our works will be judged by fire,we will be rewarded in heaven accordingly 1cor3:13-15).Are our works important?
Just ask Jesus. Show me where Jesus says that we are to be judged by anything other than our works, and I may start buying into these newer traditions of men.
Our faith is important for our justification(salvation or getting into heaven)eph2:8-9
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exiled
Guest
Well that’s just dandy, but it leaves my fundamental question unanswered. How can a protestant who claim he is saved, possibly know? That individual does not know what may come up in the future that may severely test his faith, therefore he does not know if he might fall away, hence never actually saved in the first place.* It makes no sense*. And, if such an individual was never saved in the first place, what chance did they have since they would not have had the benefit of God’s grace to help them through that thing that proved they were never one of the sheep. :whacky:Linkowski said:One that permanently falls away was never saved…as in the parable of the sower, the word/seed fell on rocky soil or seed was fruitless with the cares and pleasures of this life choking it out. They did not receive the word in submission to Christ as Lord becoming a disciple and follower of him. Repentance must be in the heart of the individual who hears and believes the gospel and it is all a work of God…repentance and faith.
Luke 8:11-15 KJV 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Scriptures that affirm this…
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 John 2:19 KJV 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
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newbie1234
Guest
T
There are 2 schools of thought on this issue. One is called calvinist which is eternal security(you cannot lose your salvation under any circumstances). The other is called armenian which there can be a loss of salvation. I tend to lean toward the armenian view. If you start another thread I will elaborate using biblical support for both sides. It is not really an appropriate subject for this thread.exiled said:This is the part I don’t get in protestant theology. If they were never saved in the first place, then they were denied any of God’s graces, which would have helped them live a life of grace and get to Heaven.
Since none of us know what we will do in the future then OSAS simply cannot be applicable.
Imagine the worst case scenario you can think of. Losing a child, or even your whole family as some poor souls have had to endure. You simply cannot say that you wouldn’t fall away from God, deny Him, so to speak.
According to you that means they were never saved, which I repeat, means that they never had God’s grace to get through that trial.
If they were saved, but spend the rest of their lives rejecting God and all of His teachings, you still say they get to Heaven?
That is way out there.
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newbie1234
Guest
This is a good question.Well that’s just dandy, but it leaves my fundamental question unanswered. How can a protestant who claim he is saved, possibly know? That individual does not know what may come up in the future that may severely test his faith, therefore he does not know if he might fall away, hence never actually saved in the first place.* It makes no sense*. And, if such an individual was never saved in the first place, what chance did they have since they would not have had the benefit of God’s grace to help them through that thing that proved they were never one of the sheep. :whacky:
the answer is: A person recieves the Holy Spirit at the point of Salvation. And there is a noticeable change of life. This is how we know we are saved. The Holy Spirit begins His sanctifying work of putting away the old worldy person and maturing the born again believer into a new Godly person.Eph4:21-25
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Linkowski
Guest
I have a question:
Is Sacred Tradition the Word of God or the word of man?
Is Sacred Tradition the Word of God or the word of man?
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NotWorthy
Guest
Chancellare;1902967:
You read, “I can be complete by just using Scripture and nothing else”.2tim3:16-17 says I can be complete using scripture and equipped for every good work.
It DOES NOT say that.
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NotWorthy
Guest
But didn’t the Holy Spirit guide each person to the interpretation that they came up with.T
There are 2 schools of thought on this issue. One is called calvinist which is eternal security(you cannot lose your salvation under any circumstances). The other is called armenian which there can be a loss of salvation. I tend to lean toward the armenian view. If you start another thread I will elaborate using biblical support for both sides. It is not really an appropriate subject for this thread.
Those that follow each methodology would be willing to testify that this is a Spirit-Driven interpretation.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Sacred Tradition is the God driven teachings of the Apostles and the Church leaders that succeeded them.I have a question:
Is Sacred Tradition the Word of God or the word of man?
Sacred Tradition preceded Sacred Scripture (at least the NT portion of Scripture).
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Linkowski
Guest
So it is the Word of man.
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newbie1234
Guest
Both schools have biblical support. So it doesn’t have to be a Spirit driven interpretation.But didn’t the Holy Spirit guide each person to the interpretation that they came up with.
Those that follow each methodology would be willing to testify that this is a Spirit-Driven interpretation.
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runandsew
Guest
What exactly does that mean?Our works are important for our sanctification(our works will be judged by fire,we will be rewarded in heaven accordingly 1cor3:13-15).
Our faith is important for our justification(salvation or getting into heaven)eph2:8-9
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NotWorthy
Guest
It is the Word of Man with the Authority of God.So it is the Word of man.
"Go, therefore to all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them all I have commanded you."
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