Saint Xavier Catholic Church in NYC - "Do you affirm that white privilege is unfair"--"Woke" Catholic Church

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TMC said:
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Mark121359:
Yeah…the USCCB, there’s no politics there.
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Yeah, those crazy successors to the Apostles. Where do they get off asserting teaching authority?
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I have seen politics not on this but on emergency contraception by the USCCB. I can go into detail but maybe that is another thread.

This rhetoric by this priest was not appropriate. It was not appropriate to put pictures on the altar during mass and then make these statements after communion prior to the last blessing.

The altar has not been cleared so it was during the liturgy of the Mass.
 
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The USCCB has no more authority than does one bishop. Moreover, some of their statements are written by staff people, not bishops, and thus have no standing at all.

This came out many years ago over a “statement from the USCCB.”
 
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pnewton said:
But he did not say that. He said that white supremacy must be dismantled where it is present. Surely you do not believe that we are free from white supremacy in America. It still exists, I assure you.
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The problem is that if you examine the way the term white supremacy is used, there are two different meanings.

One is the one that we have always known about, that of the KKK or Bull Connor. People who believe there is something wrong with black people just because they are black.

The new meaning is that every institution in the US was intentionally framed to keep black people down, that everything about Western civilization is racist, etc.

This new meaning encompasses ideas such as science and math being racist, the family being racist, etc.

Almost everyone deplores the type of white supremacy embodied by the Aryan Nation, but not everyone agrees that tribal black magic should be viewed on par with physics. (Link).

The questions asked in the faux renewal of baptism vows assume facts not in evidence, along the lines of asking if someone has stopped beating his wife. It is pushing a political agenda through equivocation and doing so through a form which should be reserved for holy matters.
 
redbetta said:
Give an example.
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Okay.




There is still white supremacy in the United States. I really did not think I need to provide documentation for that.
Mark121359 said:
It’s almost like he’s reinventing, and putting his own spin on the Renewal of Baptismal Promises recited at the Easter Vigil!
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There is no evidence that this is baptismal related, which would be wrong. I did not know this was at the Easter Vigil, since I am just now reading about it.
WingedHussar said:
Does that include racist thoughts against white people like “white privilege”?
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That might manifest in some ways that could be immoral, if an individual was treated with prejudice. It does not apply to the recognition of racism as evil though.
 
The Catechism doesn’t mention every last thing and was written before white privilege was articulated as a conecpt. It’s up to trained theologians to interpret its tenets, as this priest has done. It seems extremely mean-spirited to call up a bishop, and encourage others to do likewise, in order and try to get this priest in trouble when he’s done nothing wrong by Church teaching and not committed any liturgical abuse. I’m sorry you feel so easily offended; our Church is a counter-cultural one, but the Gospel message of loving our neighbor must be preached, even at the risk of offending people.
 
Mark121359 said:
Bishop Joseph Strickland’s take on this subject.
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Raymond Arroyo is not a good journalists, at least as far as trying to give open-ended questions. For example, when Cardinal Cupich speaks about how even sinful Catholics are Catholics, Arroyo ignores the Cardinal’s point and asks if we can judge political records. We all need to learn how to watch news with a little more diligence so this sort of tactic does not fool anyone.

The priest from NYC asks those there to join in a prayer for racial justice. Arroyo loads the question to Bishop Strickland by saying it is in the form of baptismal renewal. The priest did not say this, and it is not. Yet the bishop is asked an opinion after a cold listening of a 20 second snippet.

This sort of interview show Arroyo to be a pundit, not a journalist. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, but understand that it requires a keen reading of how bias is communicated.
 
pnewton said:
That might manifest in some ways that could be immoral, if an individual was treated with prejudice. It does not apply to the recognition of racism as evil though.
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There is no reason why white “racism” needs a special word other than to imply that white people are especially evil, hence the concept is inherently racist against white people and anti-Catholic.
 
Annie said:
The problem is that if you examine the way the term white supremacy is used, there are two different meanings.
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Maybe that I why I see this differently. I was taught in RCIA that we had to avoid rash judgment by always giving everyone, especially priests, the most favorable understanding. I does not look like that is happening. The priest says this was a prayer for racial justice, yet it keeps getting repeated that these are comparable to baptismal vows?

I think what bothers me worse it that since I have become disenchanted with the Republican Party, and especially in the last four years, racial justice is constantly being called a political issue, specifically, a Democrat issue. The Republican Party should never have ceded the issue of racism to Democrats. It should be an easy nonpartisan issue, that both can agree needs addressing. Heck, it used to be.
 
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Yes, because he followed the pattern of the renewal of baptism that occurs in some Masses.

Under your scenario, that he meant the Aryan Nation sort of white supremacy, then the priest would have been guilty of rash judgement. It would be like asking all the people in a church to renounce murder.
 
redbetta said:
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pnewton:
But he did not say that. He said that white supremacy must be dismantled where it is present. Surely you do not believe that we are free from white supremacy in America. It still exists, I assure you.
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Give an example. As fair as I know, the only form of illegal and acceptable racial discrimination in this country is affirmative action, which is systematic racism against whites and Asians in favor of blacks and non-white Hispanics. Tell me, why would something like that fly in a white supremacist nation? And why would a white supremacist nation elect a black man twice? Or have so many people in power scolding white people constantly over their supposed privilege?

Really, white supremacy is really just the latest boogie man. I remember before 2016, when one thought of a white supremacist, you’d think of a basement-dwelling weirdo or someone in a prison gang that really was not much of a threat to wider society. Now, suddenly white supremacy is everywhere. Why? Because there are people who need the race issue to never go away to stay in power.
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Supremacist hallmarks in any society are over representation of a group in prisons, unemployment lines, health standards etc and underrepresentation in general leadership, government, market success etc. Those are the universal signs of systemic racism.
 
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Annie said:
Under your scenario, that he meant the Aryan Nation sort of white supremacy, then the priest would have been guilty of rash judgement. It would be like asking all the people in a church to renounce murder.
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We have an annual pray service to end abortion. There is no rash judgement that all are involved in abortion.
 
WingedHussar said:
There is no reason why white “racism” needs a special word other than to imply that white people are especially evil, hence the concept is inherently racist against white people and anti-Catholic.
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The word is racism. Why did you put it in quotes?

I’m sitting at my dining room table, in my air-conditioned home, waiting for pizza to come out of the oven. Am I being “classist” against myself for pointing out that I have privileges that a family living out of their van doesn’t?
 
WingedHussar said:
There is no reason why white “racism” needs a special word other than to imply that white people are especially evil,
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Anytime the word “imply” pops up it means someone assumed something, and that assumption could be wrong. It may be that white racism is the problem he is facing, just like in Japan there could be a priest that has to address racism against Chinese. Everyone seems to miss that this is not a priest addressing the country. This is a priest that is addressing his parishioners. Does it not at least occur to you and others that he knows his parish better than any of us?
 
Counter-culture? Please, it’s the establishment that’s preaching this bull. The media, academia, politicians, etc. It’s the individuals that oppose this narrative that are truly counter-cultural.
 
Motherwit said:
Supremacist hallmarks in any society are over representation of a group in prisons, unemployment lines, health standards
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Do incompetent leaders and personal responsibility and choices have at least some role in these outcomes? Perhaps committing crimes, eating unhealthy, and laziness? I’d hate to think people were merely victims of a system and had no ability to act autonomously. To believe that would be patronizing if not racist.
 
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Annie said:
The USCCB has no more authority than does one bishop. Moreover, some of their statements are written by staff people, not bishops, and thus have no standing at all.

This came out many years ago over a “statement from the USCCB.”
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Perhaps, but it still remains true that each bishop has teaching authority, correct? And surely the committee of all the US bishops have more authority than random posters on this forum - I assume we can agree on that? But if you would rather put your faith in random anonymous internet people than the bishops, I suppose that is a between you and your conscience.
 
If this is true, then perhaps that is why this priest in New York City thought it racism needed to be addressed in his parish, and those in more conservative areas of the country do not see as much racism.

Also, can we not start a general slam, attack, and assault of Catholic bishops because… McCarrick.
 
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This is what the priest said:
Priest: Do you support racial justice, equity, and compassion in human relations?
Church: Yes
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Priest: Do you affirm that white privilege is unfair and harmful to those who have it and to those who do not?
Church: Yes
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Priest: Do you affirm that white privilege and the culture of white supremacy must be dismantled wherever it is present?
Church: Yes
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Priest: Do you support racial justice, equity, and liberation for every person?
Church: Yes
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Priest: Therefore, from this day forward, will you strive to understand more deeply the injustice and suffering white privilege and white supremacy cause?
Church: Yes
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Priest: Will you commit to developing the courage to live your beliefs and values of racial justice and equality?
Church: Yes
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Priest: Will you strive to eliminate racial prejudice from your thoughts and actions, so that you can better promote the racial justice efforts of our church.
Church: Yes
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pnewton said:
This is a priest that is addressing his parishioners
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I have noticed that this is usually done through the homily, not through a prayer that mimics the renewal of baptismal vows.
 
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