Salvation requires belief in Mary's Perpetual VIRGINITY?

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Mannyfit75 said:
The Greek translation was translated by Helenistic Jews who knew both Hebrew and Greek. The original manuscripts were in Hebrew from which they were translated from.
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The point remains. There are hundreds of variations of English translations of the Greek, by people who know both. Are you suggesting that any of these translations are infallible? No of course not.
 
BrianH said:
The point remains. There are hundreds of variations of English translations of the Greek, by people who know both. Are you suggesting that any of these translations are infallible? No of course not.
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Only the one professed by the Church to be infallible is infallible. It was the Church who proclaimed the 27 NT to be infallible. If you question that (which you do because you aren’t Catholic and not bound by her percepts) then you might as well question the authority of Scripture since it was the Holy Mother Church who proclaim the those books to be inspired.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Only the one professed by the Church to be infallible is infallible. It was the Church who proclaimed the 27 NT to be infallible. If you question that (which you do because you aren’t Catholic and not bound by her percepts) then you might as well question the authority of Scripture since it was the Holy Mother Church who proclaim the those books to be inspired.
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It sounds like you basically agree with my premise because you have tried to change the subject.
 
BrianH said:
It sounds like you basically agree with my premise because you have tried to change the subject.
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You force me to change the subject by claiming that translation of the Bible is wrong. I had to respond that your answer was incorrect.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Matthew 1:24-25And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.
how do catholics explain the word ‘till’ there?

if the two had not had sex ever, then the author would have stopped short of saying “And he knew her not” PERIOD.
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You raise a good question. One that, I’m sure has been answered before. One may have to go to the original text to understand how this translation might lead one to think this. I’ll leave this up to the pros… I’m not but I suspect that “Knew her not” may not necessarily refer to sex, here. It may have been that he did not fully understand the “value” of the child until the birth. After that, his role with this “family” changed again.

However, I will tell you A.T., we don’t, and know we CAN’T, take the Bible one line at a time. The hardest part of understanding is taking the WHOLE thing. Not just parts. That is the issue many Cafeteria Catholics have and the issues those who don’t like them can’t understand.

Just about any group has taken a particular line to show some inconsistancy with a Catholic teaching… But if we take ALL the scripture and relate it, any inconsistancies we see must have a rational explaination. So one can take the WHOLE THING, and come to understand or one can reject it. Rejecting part is the same as rejecting the whole. You have chosen the latter as you have posted before. The others are not quiters as you would like to portray them. They just felt like telling you that they are tired of the game.

So keep it coming, A.T.! I’m more inspired to know the Truth everytime you post.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
You force me to change the subject by claiming that translation of the Bible is wrong. I had to respond that your answer was incorrect.
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My answer is correct. The Catholic Church has never declared the Greek translation of the Hebrew infallible. It is a translation. If you do not think it is an incorrect, so be it. But you do not have an official Catholic interpretation of the verse in Samuel. You are simply stating your opinion, just like I am about the accuracy of a particular verse in the OT. It is also incorrect to equate a translation of the Hebrew as being the same as the original. Your church does not do that.
 
look3467 said:
A mountain out of a mole hill?
The argument is not edifying to the point where Jesus is glorified.
My opinion.

Peace>>>AJ
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The belief of Mary being remain a virgin all her life is doctrinal defined by the Church as part of the truth. Just as Jesus granted his Church to bind and loose, and since the Church declare that Mary remain a virgin, we must therefore believe it.

Jesus himself made it very clear to his disciples. “He who hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me. He who reject me, rejects the one who sent me.” So if the Church teaches this belief and it is true, Jesus also speaks since Jesus speaks through his Church.

We also see that when Saul was persecuting the Church. Jesus said to him, Saul, Saul, why are you presecuting me?" Who is Saul persecuting, the Church.

So when the Church declare Mary to be a virgin, it must be true. If one reject this true, rejects Christ.
 
BrianH said:
My answer is correct. The Catholic Church has never declared the Greek translation of the Hebrew infallible. It is a translation. If you do not think it is an incorrect, so be it. But you do not have an official Catholic interpretation of the verse in Samuel. You are simply stating your opinion, just like I am about the accuracy of a particular verse in the OT. It is also incorrect to equate a translation of the Hebrew as being the same as the original. Your church does not do that.
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The Church in the Council of Florence and the Council of Trent did. It defined all 73 Books to be inspired, Septuagint included.

Unless you can prove to me that those Councils did not include the Septuagint, you are saddenly mistaken.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The Church in the Council of Florence and the Council of Trent did. It defined all 73 Books to be inspired, Septuagint included.

Unless you can prove to me that those Councils did not include the Septuagint, you are saddenly mistaken.
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the Catholic Church does not hold the Septuagint to be infallible. That is not official Catholic doctrine.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
until doesn’t always mean "up to the time that "
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but Michal was childless up to the day she died. dying in childbirth was not uncommon in the olden days. that way its true that some people only get to have children after they died.
Mannyfit75 said:
Afterwards the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God and the Father, when he shall have brought to nought all principality, and power, and virtue. 25 For he must reign, until he hath put all his enemies under his feet.

Does this passage mean that Jesus’ reign will last and will end when his enemies are subject to him? We know for a fact that Jesus’ reign is for all eternity.
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It says up there that after Jesus conquers everybody, the Father would take over.
 
BrianH said:
the Catholic Church does not hold the Septuagint to be infallible. That is not official Catholic doctrine.
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Cite your source. Perhaps then, you can convince me otherwise like you did before.
 
HailMary said:
FYI, if you are a Catholic and you disagree that you MUST believe in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, you are ***gravely ***wrong.
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its amazing how the polls consistently had a tally of 50/50 between the catholics who agree & disagree. incredible! :eek:
 
AgnosTheist said:
It says up there that after Jesus conquers everybody, the Father would take over.
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Jesus’ kingdom is without End. Second, all authority has been given to him by his Father. I beg to differ. Jesus’ kingdom is ever lasting…
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Jesus’ kingdom is without End. Second, all authority has been given to him by his Father. I beg to differ. Jesus’ kingdom is ever lasting…
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but it says up there that he is delivering the kingdom to the father. 🤷
 
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