Sauk City-area priests inspiring some, alienating others

[AnneTeresa]

But this certainly cannot be a justification for sacrilege?

It seems that you realize the aforementioned abuses were just that - abuses. It must pain you now to realize what had been going on then, no?

It may have been sacrilege but honestly, we did not know it. I still don’t know so much, having come back to the church now when it’s so different and more traditional. I would not be a catholic today if it were not for that church at that time in my lif and I know that is true of many many other people.

What pains me is the divisiveness that I now see in my city’s churches and the people. Also much confusion, at least for me. Also, it hurts me personally to be judged so critically by people who were not there. I say it again, it will take time for the church here to get its balance back–it seems we are going from one extreme to the other here.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Must have been a different time frame from me. Mass wasn’t full and the student group held no appeal to me. .

I was there in the 80s–that’s when it was so vibrant. I don’t know as much what happened in the 90s.

 

[manualman]

You make a good reminder not to let our own frustrations and hurts turn into a form of anger that does more harm than good.

It’s not about becoming more traditional (for me at least). It’s about dividing what the catholic church actually teaches versus what a large cabal of hijackers have CLAIMED that she teaches for quite a number of years. I rather like some acoustic guitar mass parts which would no doubt horrify some CAF members. But that’s style, not substance.

 

[Kearney]

I guess the truth is that most American Catholics are not ideological as posters on Internet forums and resent what they receive to be a social engendering of sorts that occur in situations like this. The same scenarios of mistrust and confusion have occurred in the past when a new, liberal bishop has invaded a diocese and sought to bring in outsiders in order to conform things to his perceived notions of what is and isn’t acceptably Catholic.

Although some might jump for joy at the thought of doctrinal “orthodoxy” coming back into vogue, the diocese also should take care that they don’t empty out the churches in attempting to do this. After all you could have the most “orthodox” priest deliver the most “orthodox” homilies and serve the most reverent masses, but would good would it do if their was no congregation left to here him because they had all been scandalized by his extremism.

 

[white_sheep]

I guess the truth is that most American Catholics are not ideological as posters on Internet forums and resent what they receive to be a social engendering of sorts that occur in situations like this. The same scenarios of mistrust and confusion have occurred in the past when a new, liberal bishop has invaded a diocese and sought to bring in outsiders in order to conform things to his perceived notions of what is and isn’t acceptably Catholic.

Although some might jump for joy at the thought of doctrinal “orthodoxy” coming back into vogue, the diocese also should take care that they don’t empty out the churches in attempting to do this. After all you could have the most “orthodox” priest deliver the most “orthodox” homilies and serve the most reverent masses, but would good would it do if their was no congregation left to here him because they had all been scandalized by his extremism.

orthodoxy is never extreme.

 

[elts1956]

And yet, the Holy Spirit was working overtime in those days in this church. Masses were standing room only and many students and others started coming to church and came to know God. I know, I was there.

The big question is what drew them, the show, or God? I do not mean to demean the hope that many came to know God. The truth of the matter though is that during the 40s and 50s and even only having TLM Masses, and with the division between clergy and laity very clear most Masses were standing room only. So don’t give the puppets all the credit.

 

[elts1956]

And yet, the Holy Spirit was working overtime in those days in this church. Masses were standing room only and many students and others started coming to church and came to know God. I know, I was there.

I guess the truth is that most American Catholics are not ideological as posters on Internet forums and resent what they receive to be a social engendering of sorts that occur in situations like this. The same scenarios of mistrust and confusion have occurred in the past when a new, liberal bishop has invaded a diocese and sought to bring in outsiders in order to conform things to his perceived notions of what is and isn’t acceptably Catholic.

Although some might jump for joy at the thought of doctrinal “orthodoxy” coming back into vogue, the diocese also should take care that they don’t empty out the churches in attempting to do this. After all you could have the most “orthodox” priest deliver the most “orthodox” homilies and serve the most reverent masses, but would good would it do if their was no congregation left to here him because they had all been scandalized by his extremism.

How can one be 'scandalized" by truth and orthodoxy?

 

[po18guy]

I guess the truth is that most American Catholics are not ideological as posters on Internet forums and resent what they receive to be a social engendering of sorts that occur in situations like this. The same scenarios of mistrust and confusion have occurred in the past when a new, liberal bishop has invaded a diocese and sought to bring in outsiders in order to conform things to his perceived notions of what is and isn’t acceptably Catholic.

Although some might jump for joy at the thought of doctrinal “orthodoxy” coming back into vogue, the diocese also should take care that they don’t empty out the churches in attempting to do this. After all you could have the most “orthodox” priest deliver the most “orthodox” homilies and serve the most reverent masses, but would good would it do if their was no congregation left to here him because they had all been scandalized by his extremism.

Examine John 6. Jesus let them walk away from the Truth. He said not one word to keep them or call them back. He softened not one iota of His teaching. Our Lord told us that few find the narrow gate, thus most will be lost. It is our job to pray for them and call them to the fulness of truth.

Rhetorical question: How far do we compromise the truth for the sake of a full house?

 

[Argh]

I was just “waking up” when I met Bishop Morlino, briefly years ago, at St. Paul’s on UW-Madtown’s campus. I didn’t really know anything about him at the time, but looking back I can really appreciate his pastoral message; during the homily he gently pointed around the room and said something along the lines of “if there aren’t one or two men here who aren’t being called to be a priest, something is wrong.”

Now that I think about it, Bishop Morlino and former Archbishop of Milwaukee Dolan are a lot alike in a charismatic sort of way…

 

[manualman]

orthodoxy is never extreme.

Not true. We are not saved by correct knowledge of theology (that idea is called gnosticism, perhaps you’ve heard of it?). We are saved by GRACE. Orthodoxy is a necessary prerequisite for preaching the gospel. But it is not the sum total of what is necessary to preach it. I seem to recall St. Paul saying something similar (a resounding gong…)

 

[the_phoenix]

Bravo to Bishop Morlino. May he continue to clean up this diocese and may he continue to make the liberals extremely uncomfortable.

 

[AnneTeresa]

The big question is what drew them, the show, or God? I do not mean to demean the hope that many came to know God. The truth of the matter though is that during the 40s and 50s and even only having TLM Masses, and with the division between clergy and laity very clear most Masses were standing room only. So don’t give the puppets all the credit.

God drew them. Maybe not in the way you would have approved or liked, but it was God’s work–at least when I was there it was. As for the 40s and 50s, hmmm, I was around in th e 50s. It was standing room only because people were REQUIRED to go to Mass. People did not question ANYTHING. No wonder abuses grew out of that era. No choices for the faithful. I grew up in that era and while I am grateful for some of the basics I learned then, it was NOT a good thing going on in the church at that time. Everything was about condemnation. At least that was my experience. I know that wasn’t true for everyone.

 

[manualman]

AnneTheresa, yours is a familar story to me. One I have heard many times in my own family. While I’d quibble that nobody “required” you to go in the sense of armed force or temporal consequences if you didn’t, you felt that way because you had been formed to see the reality of the world as a creation of God and the “requirement” of the Church seemed as real to you as that of an armed police officer, yes?

In my observations of baby boomers, it appears to me that the explicit formation of catholic teaching is in there somewhere unconsiously, but that the message of the love of God was found lacking where the rubber of the church hit the road, so to speak. Thus the “feel God’s love” movement resonated strongly for this generation.

But that same message holds approximately ZERO appeal for Gen Xers and younger because we never received that basic formation first. So many of us are ignorant of the foundational teachings of the church that this approach towards christian teaching comes off as little more than a slightly more adult oriented Barney episode. It feels phony, so my generation has abandoned the church in droves. We aren’t interested in fuzzy bunnies, we want to know that God hasn’t simply abandoned us here to our own mess, but has given us a clear revelation, a vision and direction for how to find Him, how to grow closer to Him and how to direct our lives in ways that are supportive of that goal rather than destructive to it.

Funny how humans so often go in polarizing extremes.

 

[AnneTeresa]

you felt that way because you had been formed to see the reality of the world as a creation of God and the “requirement” of the Church seemed as real to you as that of an armed police officer, yes?

Yes, that is how it was.

In my observations of baby boomers, it appears to me that the explicit formation of catholic teaching is in there somewhere unconsiously, but that the message of the love of God was found lacking where the rubber of the church hit the road, so to speak. Thus the “feel God’s love” movement resonated strongly for this generation.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. I had no idea God loved me or what that meant until I went to a protestant church but as an older adult when I went back that basic foundation was there–in fact is probably what called me back.

But that same message holds approximately ZERO appeal for Gen Xers and younger because we never received that basic formation first. So many of us are ignorant of the foundational teachings of the church that this approach towards christian teaching comes off as little more than a slightly more adult oriented Barney episode.

I am beginning to understand how the younger generation feels and why the traditional church services and the changes appeal to them. I do appreciate hearing things from your perspective. I have two children in their twenties and it helps me understand them more too…

 

[AnneTeresa]

I was just “waking up” when I met Bishop Morlino, briefly years ago, at St. Paul’s on UW-Madtown’s campus. I didn’t really know anything about him at the time, but looking back I can really appreciate his pastoral message; during the homily he gently pointed around the room and said something along the lines of “if there aren’t one or two men here who aren’t being called to be a priest, something is wrong.”
.

Just curious based on what you said, were you a student at that time and are now in your 20s?

 

[AnneTeresa]

we never received that basic formation first. So many of us are ignorant of the foundational teachings of the church

Can you tell me more what formation you and your generation did receive? I was away from the church at that time and don’t know what was really happening.

 

[Adeodatus]

May God bless this holy and upright bishop and these wonderful priests! They ought to tirelessly make war against the sacrileges and treasons of the revolutionists. It will take years to undo the damage, and the cost will be high. But there is no higher calling than martyrdom.

Viva Cristo Rey!

 

[po18guy]

AnneTheresa, yours is a familar story to me. One I have heard many times in my own family. While I’d quibble that nobody “required” you to go in the sense of armed force or temporal consequences if you didn’t, you felt that way because you had been formed to see the reality of the world as a creation of God and the “requirement” of the Church seemed as real to you as that of an armed police officer, yes?

In my observations of baby boomers, it appears to me that the explicit formation of catholic teaching is in there somewhere unconsiously, but that the message of the love of God was found lacking where the rubber of the church hit the road, so to speak. Thus the “feel God’s love” movement resonated strongly for this generation.

But that same message holds approximately ZERO appeal for Gen Xers and younger because we never received that basic formation first. So many of us are ignorant of the foundational teachings of the church that this approach towards christian teaching comes off as little more than a slightly more adult oriented Barney episode. It feels phony, so my generation has abandoned the church in droves. We aren’t interested in fuzzy bunnies, we want to know that God hasn’t simply abandoned us here to our own mess, but has given us a clear revelation, a vision and direction for how to find Him, how to grow closer to Him and how to direct our lives in ways that are supportive of that goal rather than destructive to it.

Funny how humans so often go in polarizing extremes.

As a member of the dreaded baby boom generation, I must say that my generation is probably the worst ever. We preferred pleasure to parenting, and sensation to souls. We have ignored what has persisted since time began, thinking that we are superior in some way and, if just allowed the freedom to search (wander), will somehow stumble upon a better way. We were born into the tumultuous post-war era of flexible truth. This yields nothing but confusion, and our solution was to search harder. We wanted a portable rock of Gibraltar - always within easy reach. What fools we are!

Sadly, this age of Aquarius mentality seeped into the Church, and it became a contest, not to fill the soul, but to fill the house. Instead of emulating Jesus and proclaiming the truth while allowing those who reject it to fall away, we entered into the “I’m OK, you’re OK” relativism mode. Our delusion included the thought that you can have the world and the Church, all in one. Insanity ensued. It was like a parents-away juvenile party, and we are still doing the mop up work.

Give the human heart the unvarnished truth and it will respond. All hearts? No. Jesus told us that.

 

[archangel04]

AnneTheresa, yours is a familar story to me. One I have heard many times in my own family. While I’d quibble that nobody “required” you to go in the sense of armed force or temporal consequences if you didn’t, you felt that way because you had been formed to see the reality of the world as a creation of God and the “requirement” of the Church seemed as real to you as that of an armed police officer, yes?

In my observations of baby boomers, it appears to me that the explicit formation of catholic teaching is in there somewhere unconsiously, but that the message of the love of God was found lacking where the rubber of the church hit the road, so to speak. Thus the “feel God’s love” movement resonated strongly for this generation.

But that same message holds approximately ZERO appeal for Gen Xers and younger because we never received that basic formation first. So many of us are ignorant of the foundational teachings of the church that this approach towards christian teaching comes off as little more than a slightly more adult oriented Barney episode. It feels phony, so my generation has abandoned the church in droves. We aren’t interested in fuzzy bunnies, we want to know that God hasn’t simply abandoned us here to our own mess, but has given us a clear revelation, a vision and direction for how to find Him, how to grow closer to Him and how to direct our lives in ways that are supportive of that goal rather than destructive to it.

Funny how humans so often go in polarizing extremes.

Wow that is very very good! Being 25 I can relate. Even I who was raised devout Catholic left the Church for 2 1/2 years and I served the mass with devotion for 10 years. I always felt something was missing and then God called me to the EF where I found that reverence and that sence that this was God centered, and not about me. I remember hearing this one guy sat behind me in class, he was reading a bible and said to his friend that why don’t priest preach more about this awsome stuff. He was talking about the power of God, miracles, and spiritual warfare. I told him because mose priest want to, but you have baby boomers who will get offended with even mentionning hell.

 

[Kearney]

As a member of the dreaded baby boom generation, I must say that my generation is probably the worst ever. We preferred pleasure to parenting, and sensation to souls. We have ignored what has persisted since time began, thinking that we are superior in some way and, if just allowed the freedom to search (wander), will somehow stumble upon a better way. We were born into the tumultuous post-war era of flexible truth. This yields nothing but confusion, and our solution was to search harder. We wanted a portable rock of Gibraltar - always within easy reach. What fools we are!

Sadly, this age of Aquarius mentality seeped into the Church, and it became a contest, not to fill the soul, but to fill the house. Instead of emulating Jesus and proclaiming the truth while allowing those who reject it to fall away, we entered into the “I’m OK, you’re OK” relativism mode. Our delusion included the thought that you can have the world and the Church, all in one. Insanity ensued. It was like a parents-away juvenile party, and we are still doing the mop up work.

Give the human heart the unvarnished truth and it will respond. All hearts? No. Jesus told us that.

Do you really believe that your generation was the “worst ever” or that it was the only one in history to love pleasure? If so then your really don’t have a very good grasp of history. I, who do study history can assure you that your was far from the worst and the same love of pleasure and slacking of supposed responsibilities was a common accusation against all generations of youth by their elders. I doubt that their ever was a single generation of young people that ever disdained pleasure and willfully made self sacrifice on their own without having been forced to by some external circumstance like war. People, by nature like to feel good and don’t relish hardships. I’ve always felt that the baby boomers are much too hard on themselves in their old age in not having lived up to the supposed greatness of previous generations. If you look at history, you’ll see that those supposedly great generations had a lot of flaws themselves and were by no means perfect.

I’m honestly disturbed by the levels of fear mongering, despair, and apocalyptic pessimism that I find by people who post to Catholic forums like this. Almost ever comment is some self wallowing litany of pity at supposed wrongs found in society, the Church, or among fellow Catholics. If this type of dreary pessimism and self pities are a hallmark of the new, revitalized generation of “JP II Catholics” then I’ll gladly take the old Paul VI generation with all their faults and foibles any day.