Scandal-Ridden USCCB Brings Pro-abortion, LGBT Rights Activists To Speak At 4-Day Event

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These bureaucrats as you call them are under the direction of bishops and priests. You infer that they are out there following their own agendas which are not the church’s agenda. how ridiculous !
Well, the bishops, then, favored giving a million dollars to ACORN, knowing what ACORN is? Perhaps some did. I doubt many did. I doubt as well that any significant number of them knew USCCB money was given to organizations that either directly support abortion or do it in tandem with others.

It’s easy for bureaucracies to take on their own agendas and keep their supposed directors in the dark. My goodness! We see that all the time in business, government and foundations of all kinds. We have seen it in chanceries too. There is no particular reason to think the USCCB bureaucracy is immune to that. The bishops don’t run it day-to-day. It takes a very hands-on bishop just to know what the Diocesan bureaucrats are doing.
 
Well, the bishops, then, favored giving a million dollars to ACORN, knowing what ACORN is? Perhaps some did. I doubt many did. I doubt as well that any significant number of them knew USCCB money was given to organizations that either directly support abortion or do it in tandem with others.

It’s easy for bureaucracies to take on their own agendas and keep their supposed directors in the dark. My goodness! We see that all the time in business, government and foundations of all kinds. We have seen it in chanceries too. There is no particular reason to think the USCCB bureaucracy is immune to that. The bishops don’t run it day-to-day. It takes a very hands-on bishop just to know what the Diocesan bureaucrats are doing.
Do you really think bishops don’t know what their staffs are doing? They may not run day to day, but certainly have directives they expect to be followed. Any staff member that doesn’t would either be diciplined or dismissed. I know in my diocese, all staff even to the parish level agree to and sign a morals statement which includes following all instructions from the ordinary. What you are propsing is very unlikely. You are painting with a very broad brush and making accusations that cannot be supported.
Being an organization of men and women, they certainly are not perfect and can make mistakes, but unless you can prove a pattern which would prove such an agenda, I would tread lightly with accusations.

Peace,
FAB
 
National Conferences of Bishops are required under the Canon Law of the Latin Church.

The only way of implementing your suggestion is to remove all bishops and appoint new ones. Do you REALLY want to add to the Pope’s burdens by doing this?

However, you are basically right. LGBTs should have NO rights under civil law.
Thanks, and I got your message. I guess I am assuming you just wanted to me answer your post, so here goes. I am not sure how LGBT rights under civil law plays in to what I have been discussing.

Also as far as USCCB being required under canon law. There is another angle to this as well.

The book “The Ratzinger Report”.
By Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. (Who is now the Pope).
Page 60.

“The documents of the episcopal conferences have no weight of their own, save that of the consent to them by individual bishops.”

So what we have is a required organization with no authority, and more specifically no teaching authority.

We are not even required to listen to them. More to the point, we don’t have to donate to them, and I won’t, and I don’t, and I will not.
 
I have sent an E-Mail to my Bishop, containing the links to video’s for Real Catholic TV.com and also Michael Voris’s site THE VORTEX , just in case He is not aware of what is going on and also to let him know ,we are aware, my next step if I do not recieve a reply is to try and contact The Holy Father !!!
Thank you and God Bless you.
 
I had already read it. Once again accusations from a site with no credible crentials.

Peace,
FAB
Okay, don’t accept the link. How about accepting it from the Horses Mouth himself or herself?? This website is the website for the LCCR.

Coalition members of LCCR
civilrights.org/about/lccr/coalition_members/
USCCB is on their list.

If you peruse their website, you will see support for abortion, and gay rights.
 
many on this site need to look at the plank in their own eye before the splinter in your neighbor’s though.

Peace,
FAB
Let’s start with the STAKE THROUGH MY HEART first. Then we will consider my eyes.
 
Thanks, and I got your message. I guess I am assuming you just wanted to me answer your post, so here goes. I am not sure how LGBT rights under civil law plays in to what I have been discussing.

Also as far as USCCB being required under canon law. There is another angle to this as well.

The book “The Ratzinger Report”.
By Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. (Who is now the Pope).
Page 60.

“The documents of the episcopal conferences have no weight of their own, save that of the consent to them by individual bishops.”

So what we have is a required organization with no authority, and more specifically no teaching authority.

We are not even required to listen to them. More to the point, we don’t have to donate to them, and I won’t, and I don’t, and I will not.
Darn you beat me to it lol. But thanks for posting it. I am going to try to send the same links to my Bishop and see what he replys with.

It’s time for Catholics to take back our Church so that we all can bring others into her and make to our final eternal destination.
 
Okay, don’t accept the link. How about accepting it from the Horses Mouth himself or herself?? This website is the website for the LCCR.

Coalition members of LCCR
civilrights.org/about/lccr/coalition_members/
USCCB is on their list.

If you peruse their website, you will see support for abortion, and gay rights.
Their prioities per thier site
Current Priorities
Ensuring equal opportunity
Protecting civil rights, civil liberties, worker protections, and equal opportunity
Promoting civic engagement
Building stronger communities and families
Reforming the nation’s criminal justice system
Guarding the crossroads of civil rights and civil liberties
I have no doublt that out of the 200 organizations some support abortion and gay rights. That in itself does not tant the USCCB. If you want to have influence on issues, you have to be part of the conversation. You are infuring gult by association, in that case Christ was guilty since he associated with sinners of his time. Remember a well man does not need the service of a doctor. All the prioities listed are part of the Social Justice documents of the Church for over 100 years. We as a Church are called to be part of these issues and work to change them. We cannot change minds and hearts if we stay on the out side.

Peace,
FAB
 
“The documents of the episcopal conferences have no weight of their own, save that of the consent to them by individual bishops.”

This is in conformance with Vatican II. The local bishop has the authority in his diocese. He does not have to be in agreement with the USCCB. However, he also has no business commenting how another bishop runs his diocese. When the Notre Dame business happened there was a letter to the diocesen paper asking why our bishop has not weighed in on he matter. The reply by he diocese was that the bishop does not comment on issues outside the diocese.

I can’t get over how people think that the bishops should do one thing or another. They really have no authority outside their diocese unless all the world bishops are meting together and the Pope is present.
 
Brother, with all due respect i dont think that these are making false accusations. i believe them and support them. it is time for somebody to stand up and expose the evil in the Church. i wonder what St Paul woud do to these groups in his time.
how is the Church looked upon in the world today, if there are two messages being sent? we cannot let these groups speak for the Church. it is shameful. where is the Sanctity of the Church? when she is viewed as supporting evil and condemn at the same time.
I am not saying that errors should not be corrected. I said that if these allegations are true, they should be corrected. As to what St. Paul would do, is not really a valid question. St. Paul does not govern the Church, Benedict XVI does. Benedict is not going to govern the Church in a Pauline style, because it’s not the same situation.

The Church has grown, become larger, it’s much more organized than it was in Paul’s time. There are canons and laws that have to be followed. These did not exist in Paul’s time. There are departments that have certain duties and obligations. These did not exist in Paul’s time. There are many issues that the Church faces today that did not exist in Paul’s time.

What Benedict XVI does do, that is very similar to Paul’s approach is to apply the principle of subsidiarity. That is that the local bishops must fix their own problems. He only intervenes when they cannot do so. This practice dates back to the Apostles. Peter did not intervene in every Church. Each Church had its leadership and each leadership had to deal with the issues in its Churches.

That being said, we have seen in Ireland and in the case of the SSPX, where the bishops could not fix the problem and the papacy has had to step in and help out. But this is not done on a regular basis. The mindset of popes in the 20th century has been to give time to the local bishops to fix their own problems and to offer guidance as they go along. This guidance is not always known to us who are sitting in the pews, nor does it have to be. This privacy is part of the Church’s clerical tradition. What happens between bishops and the Vatican remains between them. We see the outcome. We don’t always see it quickly or in a manner that we would like. But it’s there and it happens. That’s one of the many roles that the Papal Nuncio plays. He is the messenger between the pope and the local conference.

We must continue to pray that this issue will be resolved. At the same time we must pray for ourselves that we will always remain faithful and obedient to the Church knowing full well that other issues and scandals will come up. This has been the history of the Church for 2000 years, putting out one fire and another begins elsewhere. That’s part of the human condition. We are never going to have a Church that is free of sin. We can only have a Church that faces sin as it arises. When one sin is corrected, another will arise. I guess this is one of the nuances behind Jesus’ words to Peter, “strengthen your brothers.” Jesus knew that it would be a lifelong task. By lifelong, I mean the life of the Church. As long as there is a Church, there will be scandal and sin. We msut move from one to the other, like a firefighter.

Let us pray for the grace not to lose faith when things go wrong, because something is always going to go wrong. And let us pray for the grace to know what to do, when things do go wrong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
No matter waht Mr. Carr is accused of, the bishops seem to support him, the church calls us to forgive the sinner, perhaps those on the attack need to do the same.

Peace,
FAB
Right. I’m not asking about Mr. Carr, I’m asking why the Bishops aren’t addressing the many, many problems with their executives and the way they run their shop. The Church also calls on us to be honest and not deceptive if you want to preach about Church teaching.
 
Amen, many on this site need to look at the plank in their own eye before the splinter in your neighbor’s though.
The absurdity of the above statement, which is nothing more than a smoke screen to deflect from the real harm being done, is that you are actually agreeing that there is an evil here, but never mind about it because we are all sinners.
**CCC 907 **"In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, [lay people] have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons."443
 
The conference in itself may have not authority, but the bishops do. They decide that an issue should be addressed as an whole as a conference…

The social justice needs go far beyond abortion and gay rights.

If I might work with a gay man to distribute food to the hungry, that doesn’t mean that I support his life style, I have no fear of being influenced by him, and perhaps through my own Christian charity I will influence him.

The scandle are those Catholics who are are being much less than charitable in regards to the USCCB and thier activities.

Peace,
FAB
So far, the only “condemnation” (as you call it) has been to ask why the Bishops don’t seem to address the apparent conflict created by these who are tasked with carrying out their work. Please explain why it is “uncharitable” in your view to ask questions like why would the USCCB conference pay a gay marriage and women’s ordination advocate to be the keynote speaker at their conference? If those issues contain intrinsic evil and anti-Magisterial teaching, then why are they hiring a promoter of them to give a keynote address, and paying for it with money people donated for USCCB charitable efforts?

These things need explanation. They fly in the face of Church teaching. Charities weren’t checked out - then were, and a promise given it was fixed. It wasn’t, and then another reassurance it’s fixed and it wasn’t.

So you’re saying anyone who asks for some honest answers in how these things happened is UNcharitable? Sorry, I’m not buying that. These USCCB are not infallible and by any common sense measure they are making errors and owe an accounting.

The social justice needs may go far beyond abortion and gay claims to special rights - which I doubt, but I’m sure you’ll provide proof - but that does not mean we have to ignore those just to help these people accomplish the kind of social justice they choose. You don’t get to ignore sin by investing in it just so you can feed the hungry. There are plenty of places that money can go that will not involve sinful programs and practices. When you couple that with unwillingness to be open and honest about where donated funds actually went, you have a recipe for distrust. I distrust them, no more and no less that I would a bank who would not provide me a statement of my account activity.
 
Their prioities per thier site

I have no doublt that out of the 200 organizations some support abortion and gay rights. That in itself does not tant the USCCB. If you want to have influence on issues, you have to be part of the conversation. **You are infuring gult by association, **in that case Christ was guilty since he associated with sinners of his time.
Sorry - they’ve gone way beyond guilt by association. In case you missed the link already posted, the USCCB is a card-carrying, dues-paying member of the LCCR. They have financed the efforts of this pro-abortion group with our $$. So when the LCCR lobbies Congress, they can legitimately say they are representing the bishops! The criteria of membership with the LCCR is that members must share their principles and purposes!
 
But to many are singularly focused on these issues and are not looking at all the other issues that need to be addressed.
You are making this sound like no one thinks the USCCB does any good, and that isn’t true and I don’t see anyone making such a claim. What claim they ARE making is that money went to organizations that were funding abortion and promoting political agendas that defy Church teaching. People want to know WHY the USCCB would fund them, and the USCCB has given no answer, only muddy denials that turn out to be questionable in terms of truth.
…remember gays and lesbian are God’s children and just a blanket condemnation will not resolve the issue.
No one is trying to argue otherwise. We are asking why money donated by Catholics, supposedly for charitable causes, is ending up in the hands of groups who promote progressive political agendas and promote abortion. Those are legitimate questions.
As far as “clean house” you are infiring unfounded acusations since you have no idea the person views of the people working for these organization.
They aren’t unfounded accusations; each of the charges is backed up by financial disclosures by the groups who got the money, their pamphlets, their own website claims. But you’re right about one thing, we have no idea of the views of the people involved because they won’t come forward and reveal how or why they gave the money to whom they did. That is why many are asking the questions, so they WILL explain. But in the face of 3 years of this same circus, the only thing they claim is that they are doing things “right,” but will not open up for anyone to verify they are.

Honest people using honest efforts usually have no problem being open, as they’ve nothing to hide. Here, we don’t know if their efforts were honest or not, and we’d like to know so we can put the matter to rest.
Remember let him without sin cast the first stone.
Don’t be ridiculous. You don’t get to erase what could be serious wrongdoing by making a statement like that. No one is trying to isolate their “sin” above their own; they are just asking for an honest accounting of where monies went and why.
My previous post has a link to an article from the USCCB from Friday, I suggest you review it.
Peace,
FAB
I did review it and found it to be questionable. More than one of the watchdog groups who are following this issue daily have verified the claim about some groups not apparently promoting various causes until after they received the money is false. They provide pages of website screen shots all dated before the money went to them as proof. This only compounds the problem, you see? Because not only is the act questionable, but now there appears to be either a lack of understanding or lack of diligence in checking these organizations out before funding them. This is why an open accounting is being sought, because the answers we’re getting are not truthful, intentional or not. So no one is saying they are deliberately lying (sinning), they are saying we can’t tell if they are or not, and that is a BIG difference. But opening the process up will clear the whole problem up, don’t you think?

Isn’t that a better solution than to just hide behind “casting the first stone” and leaving gobs of faithful in doubt? Any other charity would be shunned for such apparent deception, but many are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if they would just stop avoiding the questions and answer them.
 
Right. I’m not asking about Mr. Carr, I’m asking why the Bishops aren’t addressing the many, many problems with their executives and the way they run their shop. The Church also calls on us to be honest and not deceptive if you want to preach about Church teaching.

Bishops can only address issues in their own diocese. I don’t understand why posters say what the bishops can do. They are not a group with authority unless it is all the world bishops meeting together.
 
youtube.com:80/watch?v=19uOKKWxcWg

brothers let’s not forget that there is more than we know. obviously things are not going to be so clear and out there for everyone to see… evil sneaks on you without you knowing. i stick with michael voris stories. just take for example the sex abuse case. we did not know about it until the world told us.
Thank you wisdomseeker!

Here is a one stop shopping location for all the videos from RealCatholicTV on this topic. Please note that this page is being updated regularly as new news becomes available.

At the bottom of the page is a link to view all the content on this subject. 🙂

realcatholictv.net/usccbscandal/

~Liza
 
Right. I’m not asking about Mr. Carr, I’m asking why the Bishops aren’t addressing the many, many problems with their executives and the way they run their shop. The Church also calls on us to be honest and not deceptive if you want to preach about Church teaching.

Bishops can only address issues in their own diocese. I don’t understand why posters say what the bishops can do. They are not a group with authority unless it is all the world bishops meeting together.
Are you saying they have nothing to do with the USCCB as an organization? They RUN it, they hold ultimate responsibility for anything that organization does. It uses their name, and it bothers me as a Catholic to see that good name run into the ground to the point where it appears that Catholics are donating money for charity - in the name of the Bishops - and those dollars are being shipped off to political action groups and to other groups who promote social policies counter to Church teaching.

There are lots of questions, they are well documented, and they deserve an answer. The sad thing is, if no answer is given and they continue trying to dodge and weave, it is going to impact the many GOOD things they do with the money when people distrust them enough to withhold donations. This past year there were about 20 envelopes taken up in a Mass of around 300 people. In years prior, there were 150-200. And it has little chance of getting any better on it’s own.

I have to wonder if maybe the Bishops want this; maybe this a way for them to pull back from the amount of charitable work the Church is involved in. With reduction in the number of churches and facilities, it would make sense this operation get scaled back as well. I can’t think of a better way to scale it back without calling for a scale-back.
 
pewsitter.com/view_news_id_28931.php

Oh brother!!!

It seem the shepherds are cooperating with the wolves, instead of protecting the flock. :eek:

It seems to me that the USCCB should be disbanded. This organization is responsible for an outrageous amount of financial support to the wolves. The smoke of satan has entered the church.

The other night, Saul Alynski was praised on EWTN. Then the exposure of all of their (USCCB) financial support to Pro-Abortion, Pro-Gay, organizations over the years. Sheeessshh

DISBAND THEM!! It’s to late to clean house, they are infected beyond belief. When gangrene sets in, then it’s time to amputate.
That is somewhat misleading. There was a priest who praised Saul Alinsky on Fr Benedict Groeschel’s show, but Fr. Groeschel did not know who Saul Alinshy was. Neither Fr Groeschel or EWTN were praising or endorsing Alinsky.

The USCCB issue does concern me, although I do know the validity of who was making those decisions. I just read through the program booklet for the event and neither Fr Reese or Diana Hayes were mentioned. Unless of course I missed them. But here is the link so you can read it yourself. All that being said, there were some liberal groups there that I would not have wanted.
usccb.org/jphd/csmg/docs/2010-program-book.pdf
 
That is somewhat misleading. There was a priest who praised Saul Alinsky on Fr Benedict Groeschel’s show, but Fr. Groeschel did not know who Saul Alinshy was. Neither Fr Groeschel or EWTN were praising or endorsing Alinsky.
Yes I know.

I attempted to clear it up in a later post, in this thread. I was merely trying to show how the Alinsky style has creeped into the church, not only affecting organizations supported by the USCCB but also, to such an extent as having a Paulist priest hemhaw around the issue of Alinsyi. (not Goreschel, and not EWTN).
 
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