Scandal-Ridden USCCB Brings Pro-abortion, LGBT Rights Activists To Speak At 4-Day Event

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FAB said:
The social justice needs go far beyond abortion and gay rights. To be short sighted and not recognize the larger need is viewing the world through tunnel vision.

Peace,
FAB
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And this is the crux of the whole problem. You are directly saying that because “Social justice” is a greater good then it is acceptable to have Abortion and Gay rights.

Since when???

Abortion is an “Intrinsic Evil” as stated in the Catechism. Homosexual acts are an abomination to God, as stated in the bible.

Supporting organizations and agencies that support these evils is the support of evil to do good. There is no way around this.

Catechism -
Para 1759: “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.

[Rom 3:8] …" (as we are accused and as some claim we say)–that we should do evil that good may come of it???

[1 Sam 12:25] If instead you continue to do evil, both you and your king shall perish."

It seems you hit the nail on the head with your statement. If the USCCB and the CCHD would test their leaders and staff, by asking this simple question “Do you think social justice trumps Abortion and gay rights”.

If the answer is YES then show them the door. Clean House.
 
FAB said:
The conference in itself may have not authority, but the bishops do. They decide that an issue should be addressed as an whole as a conference and then the individual bishops give instruction on that issue is the dioceses, then it is binding to the faithfull in that diocese.

As far as James Carr, he still serves on the USCCB. It is perhaps that the teachers of the Church know better than the attackers on this site.

The underlining tone is the association with “leftist” organizations.
These organizations are answering the Call of Christ to care for those most in need. The social justice needs go far beyond abortion and gay rights. To be short sighted and not recognize the larger need is viewing the world through tunnel vision.

If I might work with a gay man to distribute food to the hungry, that doesn’t mean that I support his life style, I have no fear of being influenced by him, and perhaps through my own Christian charity I will influence him.

The scandle are those Catholics who are are being much less than charitable in regards to the USCCB and thier activities.

Peace,
FAB
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But at what price? There is nothing wrong with working with somone who has opposing views, when it comes to the greater good of humanity. But anyone who is part of any organization the pomotes abortionor other evils, is in part helping that organization with their agendas. This is WRONG and we as Catholics should never bend over when it comes to truth and the Faith. This “social justice” that so many people like to put out there is only a cover for the real and evil agendas that so many “progressive” groups want to put into our culture. I say enough is enough and let’s get back to the real issue which is the salvation of souls, be living a good Christian life and teaching Catholic orthodoxy.
 
Chipper said:
And this is the crux of the whole problem. You are directly saying that because “Social justice” is a greater good then it is acceptable to have Abortion and Gay rights.

Since when???

Abortion is an “Intrinsic Evil” as stated in the Catechism. Homosexual acts are an abomination to God, as stated in the bible.

Supporting organizations and agencies that support these evils is the support of evil to do good. There is no way around this.

Catechism -
Para 1759: “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.

[Rom 3:8] …" (as we are accused and as some claim we say)–that we should do evil that good may come of it???

[1 Sam 12:25] If instead you continue to do evil, both you and your king shall perish."

It seems you hit the nail on the head with your statement. If the USCCB and the CCHD would test their leaders and staff, by asking this simple question “Do you think social justice trumps Abortion and gay rights”.

If the answer is YES then show them the door. Clean House.
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The fight against abortion and same sex marriage will continue. But to many are singularly focused on these issues and are not looking at all the other issues that need to be addressed.
Abortion will end when we change the hearts of men and women, and we have gone a long way to get there since 80% of Americans now either support pro-life or have serious question about abortion.
Gay rights is a different issue, but remember gays and lesbian are God’s children and just a blanket condemnation will not resolve the issue.
As far as “clean house” you are infiring unfounded acusations since you have no idea the person views of the people working for these organization. Remember let him without sin cast the first stone. My previous post has a link to an article from the USCCB from Friday, I suggest you review it.

Peace,
FAB
 
FAB said:
The fight against abortion and same sex marriage will continue. But to many are singularly focused on these issues and are not looking at all the other issues that need to be addressed.
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You are either displaying a defeatest attitude, or you are still placing social justice as a priority above the evil that is taking place.

As far as being singularly focused, you are singularly standing in judgement on all of us who condemn abortion as an intrinsic evil.

It is ridiculous to assume we don’t want to help the poor. But, “thou shalt not do evil that good may come of it”.
FAB said:
. Remember let him without sin cast the first stone.
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*[1 Cor 6:3] Do you not know that we will judge angels? *
Then why not everyday matters?
FAB said:
My previous post has a link to an article from the USCCB from Friday, I suggest you review it.

Peace,
FAB
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And here is one for you, I suggest you read it.

"Why Did the USCCB Join This Civil Rights Organization?"

insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7632&Itemid=48
 
FAB said:
The underlining tone is the association with “leftist” organizations.
These organizations are answering the Call of Christ to care for those most in need.
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I realize the left says this. But I find it scandalous that the most needy of all, the disabled needy, are somehow expected to survive on less than $600/month. And NOBODY; not the Republicans, not the Democrats and not the USCCB ever says or does a thing to improve their lot. Middle class income redistribution by taxing some and subsidizing others, may well be useful in building political coalitions, but it bears no real resemblance to charity or, to use the favored term, “social justice”.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I realize the left says this. But I find it scandalous that the most needy of all, the disabled needy, are somehow expected to survive on less than $600/month. And NOBODY; not the Republicans, not the Democrats and not the USCCB ever says or does a thing to improve their lot. Middle class income redistribution by taxing some and subsidizing others, may well be useful in building political coalitions, but it bears no real resemblance to charity or, to use the favored term, “social justice”.
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You are wrong when it come to the USCCB. The organization that they fund feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit the prisons, house the homelss and help people get back on thier feet.
Attacking the USCCB and the orgization it has to funnel these funs to appropriate agencies only hinder in this work. What is worse is that they create suspistion of the our teachers and question thier motives. What a work of the devil to seperate the faithful from thier leaders. Abortion is evil yes, but don’t let the fight against one lead you into other evils.

Peace,
FAB
 
Chipper said:
You are either displaying a defeatest attitude, or you are still placing social justice as a priority above the evil that is taking place.

As far as being singularly focused, you are singularly standing in judgement on all of us who condemn abortion as an intrinsic evil.

It is ridiculous to assume we don’t want to help the poor. But, “thou shalt not do evil that good may come of it”.

*[1 Cor 6:3] Do you not know that we will judge angels? *
Then why not everyday matters?

And here is one for you, I suggest you read it.

"Why Did the USCCB Join This Civil Rights Organization?"

insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7632&Itemid=48
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I had already read it. Once again accusations from a site with no credible crentials.

It’s not a defetist attiute, we are winning hearts and minds to the prolife side.
As far as judging, the community was taking disagreements to the civil auhtorities on church matters to which they were not qualified to judge. I propose that you are not qualified to judge unless you have all the facts and all sides of the issue. Since the only only side you have is from questionable sources who are not giving the full story, I suggest that you with hold judgement and not become a mob.

Peace,
FAB
 
From FAB’s link (CNS story, wherever he may have found it) “I’m concerned about these attacks on John Carr and I know they are false and I think they are even calumnious,” said [Bishop] Murphy , who chairs the USCCB Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development, by telephone to CNS."

Well, what charges were made and are they false? Keep in mind that before the collection last year at least four bishops decided not to take part, and Bishop Bruskewitz in particular said the Bishop Morin (also cited in the CNS article) was too dismissive of the complaints made at that time.
SperoNews:
Instead, we discover that Mr. Carr has, while serving the USCCB, also chaired the board of theCenter for Community Change, not to mention other leadership positions with this progressive, pro-abortion political group. During this time, the USCCB awarded $150,000 to the Center for Community Change through a 2001 Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD) grant, promotes the group on its website, and has exchanged speakers at various events. Furthermore, at least 31 other CCHD grantees have worked with the Center, giving the Center’s political work unofficial but very substantial support from a powerful Catholic body.
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Did Carr, while working for the USCCB also serve on the board of CCC? Yes, according to this bio on Pewforum. In fact, he was chair of the board at least 10 years into his term as the “director of the Department of Social Development and World Peace”.

Whether CCC received funding is a matter of record, which would be easy enough to release if it is false, to disprove the statements, likewise the relation between the 31 groups affiliated with the CCC (which provides much of that information on their website).

So the only direct claim referring to Mr Carr is proven true, not false. The Bishops in charge of watching the CCHD do have quite a bit of explaining to do, in the meantime nothing is stopping the diocese from redirecting their contributions to groups who don’t also support anti-catholic political movements.
 
We have to be very careful here. It is true that these allegations have to be investigated and if there is truth to them, they have to be corrected.

That being said, we must also remember that the Church is not a democracy and the bishops are not elected officials. They do not have to explain themselves to the laity. The only authority to whom they have to explain themselves is to the Holy See. Maybe I’m reading them incorrectly and if I am, I apologize. But some posts sound as if there is a call for the bishops to explain themselves to us. This is not the way that the Church is organized.

As to disbanding the Conference, that is not legally possible. Canon law is very clear that there must be a conference of bishops for each juridic region in the Church. Disbanding is not an option.

We have seen the Holy See call a conference to task, as was the case in Ireland. That certainly can be done, if there is sufficient proof that the conference is in violation of Church law. But that’s for the Holy See to decide, not the rest of us.

What we can do is ask the Congregation for the Bishops to look into these issues. There is nothing to stop Catholics from asking the Sacred Congregation to look at a situation. After that, what they do and how they do it is up to them.

Let us pray that these allegations are false and if they are true, that they will be corrected.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Chipper said:
pewsitter.com/view_news_id_28931.php

Oh brother!!!

It seem the shepherds are cooperating with the wolves, instead of protecting the flock. :eek:

It seems to me that the USCCB should be disbanded. This organization is responsible for an outrageous amount of financial support to the wolves. The smoke of satan has entered the church.

The other night, Saul Alynski was praised on EWTN. Then the exposure of all of their (USCCB) financial support to Pro-Abortion, Pro-Gay, organizations over the years. Sheeessshh

DISBAND THEM!! It’s to late to clean house, they are infected beyond belief. When gangrene sets in, then it’s time to amputate.
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National Conferences of Bishops are required under the Canon Law of the Latin Church.

The only way of implementing your suggestion is to remove all bishops and appoint new ones. Do you REALLY want to add to the Pope’s burdens by doing this?

However, you are basically right. LGBTs should have NO rights under civil law.
 
FAB said:
The fight against abortion and same sex marriage will continue. But to many are singularly focused on these issues and are not looking at all the other issues that need to be addressed.
Abortion will end when we change the hearts of men and women, and we have gone a long way to get there since 80% of Americans now either support pro-life or have serious question about abortion.
Gay rights is a different issue, but remember gays and lesbian are God’s children and just a blanket condemnation will not resolve the issue.
As far as “clean house” you are infiring unfounded acusations since you have no idea the person views of the people working for these organization. Remember let him without sin cast the first stone. My previous post has a link to an article from the USCCB from Friday, I suggest you review it.

Peace,
FAB
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and just how this Scripture applies in here.

you mean that we must support those who teach contrary to what Jesu tought? where is the repentence? did they repent and turn away from their sins? if they didnt then they are not forgiven.
 
JReducation said:
We have to be very careful here. It is true that these allegations have to be investigated and if there is truth to them, they have to be corrected.

That being said, we must also remember that the Church is not a democracy and the bishops are not elected officials. They do not have to explain themselves to the laity. The only authority to whom they have to explain themselves is to the Holy See. Maybe I’m reading them incorrectly and if I am, I apologize. But some posts sound as if there is a call for the bishops to explain themselves to us. This is not the way that the Church is organized.

As to disbanding the Conference, that is not legally possible. Canon law is very clear that there must be a conference of bishops for each juridic region in the Church. Disbanding is not an option.

We have seen the Holy See call a conference to task, as was the case in Ireland. That certainly can be done, if there is sufficient proof that the conference is in violation of Church law. But that’s for the Holy See to decide, not the rest of us.

What we can do is ask the Congregation for the Bishops to look into these issues. There is nothing to stop Catholics from asking the Sacred Congregation to look at a situation. After that, what they do and how they do it is up to them.

Let us pray that these allegations are false and if they are true, that they will be corrected.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Brother, with all due respect i dont think that these are making false accusations. i believe them and support them. it is time for somebody to stand up and expose the evil in the Church. i wonder what St Paul woud do to these groups in his time.
how is the Church looked upon in the world today, if there are two messages being sent? we cannot let these groups speak for the Church. it is shameful. where is the Sanctity of the Church? when she is viewed as supporting evil and condemn at the same time.
 
FAB said:
You are wrong when it come to the USCCB. The organization that they fund feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit the prisons, house the homelss and help people get back on thier feet.
Attacking the USCCB and the orgization it has to funnel these funs to appropriate agencies only hinder in this work. What is worse is that they create suspistion of the our teachers and question thier motives. What a work of the devil to seperate the faithful from thier leaders. Abortion is evil yes, but don’t let the fight against one lead you into other evils.

Peace,
FAB
Click to expand...
The lay bureaucrats who run the USCCB are NOT my spiritual leaders or teachers. My bishop is, and he very clearly feels as I do; that the efforts of Church charitable organizations should be to provide direct charitable services through Catholic institutions. By helping to fund organizations that are not in any manner related to the Church and are sometimes opposed to its purposes, the USCCB bureaucrats betray, in my opinion, the faithful who contribute in the belief that they are somehow benefitting Catholic causes and charities. Had it not been for the fact that USCCB back pedaled on its intended gift of a million dollars to ACORN (not because of the latter’s immorality or political purposes but because the founder’s brother stole money) most of the people in the pews would not even know how far from its ostensible purposes the USCCB has drifted.

The people who criticize the USCCB do so out of a sincere belief that it should be reformed. It should not be said of them that they somehow lack moral sincerity in wanting that, or that they are somehow rebelling against the Church. It is precisely because they love the Church that many would like to see its institutions in the U.S. reformed.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The people who criticize the USCCB do so out of a sincere belief that it should be reformed. It should not be said of them that they somehow lack moral sincerity in wanting that, or that they are somehow rebelling against the Church. It is precisely because they love the Church that many would like to see its institutions in the U.S. reformed.
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Precisely - thank you!

There is another huge concern as well, as it relates to our poorly catechized Catholic community in general. We have all seen the effects of the tremendous loss of faith in our parishes across the country. *("My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge - Hosea 4:6) * How much more vulnerable the faithful are to scandal because of this! Scandal is grave when given by those, who by nature or office are obligated to teach and educate others. Just what message is the USCCB giving to the average Catholic in the pew, not only by their financial support of organizations clearly opposed to the Mission of the Church, but also in the nature of an event such as this where accredited individuals are given public means to spread their very questionable views.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The lay bureaucrats who run the USCCB are NOT my spiritual leaders or teachers. My bishop is, and he very clearly feels as I do; that the efforts of Church charitable organizations should be to provide direct charitable services through Catholic institutions. By helping to fund organizations that are not in any manner related to the Church and are sometimes opposed to its purposes, the USCCB bureaucrats betray, in my opinion, the faithful who contribute in the belief that they are somehow benefitting Catholic causes and charities. Had it not been for the fact that USCCB back pedaled on its intended gift of a million dollars to ACORN (not because of the latter’s immorality or political purposes but because the founder’s brother stole money) most of the people in the pews would not even know how far from its ostensible purposes the USCCB has drifted.

The people who criticize the USCCB do so out of a sincere belief that it should be reformed. It should not be said of them that they somehow lack moral sincerity in wanting that, or that they are somehow rebelling against the Church. It is precisely because they love the Church that many would like to see its institutions in the U.S. reformed.
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These bureaucrats as you call them are under the direction of bishops and priests. You infer that they are out there following their own agendas which are not the church’s agenda. how ridiculous !
I’m not certain what the agenda is of those groups attacking the USCCB. You say reform, I say they disagree with the teaching of the bishops, as such they think they found an issue to discredit the conference.
The issues of concern have been and are being addressed by the USCCB, the continuation of the attacks go beyond the base issue.

Peace,
FAB
 
Tigg said:
There is another huge concern as well, as it relates to our poorly catechized Catholic community in general.
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Amen, many on this site need to look at the plank in their own eye before the splinter in your neighbor’s though.

Peace,
FAB
 
FAB said:
The fight against abortion and same sex marriage will continue. But to many are singularly focused on these issues and are not looking at all the other issues that need to be addressed.
Abortion will end when we change the hearts of men and women, and we have gone a long way to get there since 80% of Americans now either support pro-life or have serious question about abortion.
Gay rights is a different issue, but remember gays and lesbian are God’s children and just a blanket condemnation will not resolve the issue.
As far as “clean house” you are infiring unfounded acusations since you have no idea the person views of the people working for these organization. Remember let him without sin cast the first stone. My previous post has a link to an article from the USCCB from Friday, I suggest you review it.

Peace,
FAB
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Your 80% quote seems high. I believe a slight majority now believe that abortion is essentially wrong and would be ok with Roe being overturned.

My experience with Gay rights groups is they are very well organized and piggy-tail with radical women’s groups like NOW and NARAL in solidarity. Both groups are heavily pro-abortion. They use “civil rights” to expand their agendas. This is how Gay Marriage got signed into law here in Iowa. We the people were shut out of voting on this because of a ruling by state judges. They used discrimination as their basis. The schools have been promoting tolerance for years now and many cities in the state have special anti-discrimination laws for Gays, Lesbians, Bi-Sexaul and Transgenedered . I don’t judge individuals but don’t agree with these folks on many issues and strongly espouse marriage between one man and one woman. And yes, people of all sexual stripes are God’s children. Sin is still sin regardless of opinion polls favoring otherwise. Abortion and marriage are major issues for the church as they should be.
 
Your 80% quote seems high. I believe a slight majority now believe that abortion is essentially wrong and would be ok with Roe being overturned.

It is a small majority that identifies as pro life. However, I’d think that perhaps even more than 80% would want limits. If I look at abortion in the Yellow Pages even the Planned Parenthood ad states that it does abortions up to 13 weeks.
 
I have sent an E-Mail to my Bishop, containing the links to video’s for Real Catholic TV.com and also Michael Voris’s site THE VORTEX , just in case He is not aware of what is going on and also to let him know ,we are aware, my next step if I do not recieve a reply is to try and contact The Holy Father !!!
 
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