Scandal-Ridden USCCB Brings Pro-abortion, LGBT Rights Activists To Speak At 4-Day Event

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JReducation said:
If I did that, I would be a very poor son of my Holy Father Francis. What would Francis do differently today?

He lived with worse than this and appeared never to say a word. Yet, he reformed the Church. How did he do it? Not through indignation. In fact, he forbade it in his rule.

He tells us something in his rule that is equally applicable to the laity. Our Father, Francis, said that when we run into the sins of the clergy and the hierarchy we were to kiss their hands and venerate them, because only through them could we see the presence of Christ in the most Blessed Sacrament and only through them could we be absolved from our sins.

In another adomonition he reminds his brothers and sisters that they must never show any form of anger, righteous or otherwise. But they must always preach peace, especially inner peace. This peace was built upon trust. He taught us to trust by submitting to the authority of two of the most powerful and questionable popes in history, Innocent III and Honorius III.

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Like Christ, I must freely lay down my life for the sake of the unborn, so that the Father can take it up again with Christ’s life. If I were to raise my voice in righteous indignation, then I am not Christ or Francis, I would be singularizing myself. My call is to disappear into the mystery of the cross for the sake of the unborn. That’s the vocation of a Francisan Brother of Life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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With all due respect Br. JR I think you have just publically chastised me pretty well.

In post 131 you wrote the following to Chipper:

"No one is attacking you or anyone else. Detachment is not only from material things. That is the beginning, but not the end of detachment. Detachment must also be an act of the heart. One must detach from the fury that can feed anger. We must let that go. Otherwise, it is not righteous indignation that we express. It is hostility. "

and this

"Hold on to righteous indignation, but never forget love.

I thought that implied your approval of righteous indignation as long as it did not become anger. I was simply asking you to show some of that. People who feel as I do want to know that the clergy and religious “get” why the faithful are hurting and that they also acknowledge wrongs when they happen and do what they can to stop them. The secrecy surrounding the pedophelia scandals caused immeasurably more harm to the Church than would have happened if it had not been hushed up.

I think that Jesus wanted us to turn the other cheek and be meek when others hurt us personally (and I have a long way to go in living up to that). But I don’t think the same call to meekness applies in defense of others who are being harmed.
 
momor said:
With all due respect Br. JR I think you have just publically chastised me pretty well.

In post 131 you wrote the following to Chipper:

"No one is attacking you or anyone else. Detachment is not only from material things. That is the beginning, but not the end of detachment. Detachment must also be an act of the heart. One must detach from the fury that can feed anger. We must let that go. Otherwise, it is not righteous indignation that we express. It is hostility. "

and this

"Hold on to righteous indignation, but never forget love.

I thought that implied your approval of righteous indignation as long as it did not become anger. I was simply asking you to show some of that. People who feel as I do want to know that the clergy and religious “get” why the faithful are hurting and that they also acknowledge wrongs when they happen and do what they can to stop them. The secrecy surrounding the pedophelia scandals caused immeasurably more harm to the Church than would have happened if it had not been hushed up.

I think that Jesus wanted us to turn the other cheek and be meek when others hurt us personally (and I have a long way to go in living up to that). But I don’t think the same call to meekness applies in defense of others who are being harmed.
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St. Frances taught us to live the Gopel.
When it comes to abortion, we as Catholics must do more than just be vocal, we must find all ways necessary to help women who are pregnat and give them real alternatives if they are looking to abortion. This must include financial, housing, medical,councelling spriritual help and in some cases protection both during pregnancy and after the birth.
We must insist that young men take responsibility for thier children.
We must work to change hearts and minds through our own actions and our own examples, this includes open dialoge with all sides. It does not include condemnation of our Bishops or thier organization.

Peace,
FAB
 
gardienbleu said:
At one time, I though I had read an article in the Code of Canon Law which stated laity were obligated to speak up (with charity) against abuses when the Church hierarchy failed to address those abuses. I’ll post it if I can find it.
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Did you mean this? Already posted (#91)
CCC 907 "In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, [lay people] have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons."443
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Unfortunately those who take these words to heart from the Catechism itself and truly want to see authentic teaching upheld are being accused of false righteousness by those who defend the progressive and anti-Catholic agenda of those speakers of this event! What distortion.
 
carm_bro said:
Have you ever heard Fr. Corapi say"Pray for your priests and Bishops"?

Well, I have and there is no way to link to something like that, but I am not the most computer literate person, so perhaps it can be done…

I just posted that I would pray for the situation as per Fr. Corapi’s advice to pray for them…I have personally heard him say this in numerous talks he has given.
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So your answer would be “generally.” Yes I have heard him say that. The way you wrote your post made me think Fr. Corapi had addressed this USCCB situation recently.
 
momor said:
With all due respect Br. JR I think you have just publically chastised me pretty well.

In post 131 you wrote the following to Chipper:

"No one is attacking you or anyone else. Detachment is not only from material things. That is the beginning, but not the end of detachment. Detachment must also be an act of the heart. One must detach from the fury that can feed anger. We must let that go. Otherwise, it is not righteous indignation that we express. It is hostility. "

and this

"Hold on to righteous indignation, but never forget love.

I thought that implied your approval of righteous indignation as long as it did not become anger. I was simply asking you to show some of that. People who feel as I do want to know that the clergy and religious “get” why the faithful are hurting and that they also acknowledge wrongs when they happen and do what they can to stop them. The secrecy surrounding the pedophelia scandals caused immeasurably more harm to the Church than would have happened if it had not been hushed up.

I think that Jesus wanted us to turn the other cheek and be meek when others hurt us personally (and I have a long way to go in living up to that). But I don’t think the same call to meekness applies in defense of others who are being harmed.
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I’ve said, when there is a sin, go to the sinner, offer your assitance, but without your indignation. Remain with the sinner, if you can. If you cannot, remain with him/her united through the Eucharist. A Franciscan is never to blast, express anger or indignation of any kind. This serves no purpose. A Franciscan is to preach the Gospel to those inside the Church and outside the Church. We preach through fraternal correction, which must always be done privately, never in public. We teach the Gospel through our fidelity to it. St. Francis admonished his brothers never to enter into arguments with anyone, but to admonish the sinner in private.

For that reason, I can say that I understand what people feel. But I cannot join the blast of the bishops. I can encourage people to write, call and visit their bishops to offer their help. I can encourage people to work together to find solutions to the problem. I can encourage people to pray, when they run out of solutions or when they are not heard. I can encourage people to be patient, because change can come quickly or slowly. We do not know. Our holy Father was probably one of the most patient men in Christian history and he managed to transform the Church of his time. My mission among the faithful is to encourage them to look for solutions to sinful situations and to be present to them to listen and to help heal those who are hurt.

As far as my own feelings are concerned, I’m not entitled to have any. Once I became a Franciscan Brother of Life, my opinions ceasse to exist. The Gospel and its interpetation in th erule are what I must go by. Does this mean that I don’t have feelings? Of course not. We are human. What it means is that our feelings are not important, because we are not important. What is important is to convert the world to the Gospel through example and fraternal correction and assistance.

What purpose would we serve, if we were unfaithful to our holy Father’s vision and mission? What purpose would we serve if we were unwilling to be like Christ on Calvary? That is the life and goal of every Franciscan, to become like Christ on the cross. He did not complain, he did not show anger, he did not shoot back. He forgave and he called others to repentence. He took on the sins of humanity and suffered for them. This is what the sons of St. Francis are called to live by. Our goal is to be crucified with Christ.

Our method is to preach peace, healing and conversion away from sin. We do this with the same gentle spirit as our holy Father did. Those who fail to do so will have to answer for their conscience. I can’t answer for them. I can only answer for me. I cannot go against what I vowed to obey.

Yes, I do hear and feel the pain that is expressed here. I have also seen and felt the pain of abortion. This is what I do. I serve those who have had abortions, who perform abortions and those who are considering abortions. I have held many aborted children in my hands and burried a few myself. It is very painful to do. But I will not allow my feelings to get in the way of preaching the call to conversion, nor will I allow my feelings to stop me from approaching those who make mistakes as my brothers and my betters. That would be to betray an ideal that has existed in the Church for over 800 years.

We can do this and make things change while we retain our inner peace and do it with great fraternal love. We can correct and call others to conversion without the expression of anger. Indignation can be a way of thinking. It does not need to be an emotional outburst. This kind of indignation is good, because it changes who we are and how we deal with evil. It drives us to call others to change without attacking them.

Visit our website and read how we do this.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Franciscans of Life
 
The title/statement seems so straight forward, how do we judge? The Bishops are the individuals who watch over my/our faith. I don’t know their minds, I don’t try to second guess motives of the clergy, and I hope and pray they are directed by the Holy Spirit. It appears to me in most cases that holds true. As a candidate to the Secular Franciscan Order I don’t see how I could not support our bishops or how any member of our Church could not. Fraternal correction I guess is a possibility carried out in a matter between a Church member and the bishop(s), but not publicly.

I’ve only be an active new member for a couple of weeks. Ya’al get into some tough matters. God Bless. :tiphat::twocents:

Peace
 
Tigg said:
Did you mean this? Already posted (#91)

CCC 907 "In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, [lay people] have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons."443
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I gotta side with the Franciscan here. We have the right, and the obligation - to go to the sacred pastors - about these matters. This is what the brother explained about his order. Go to the bishop, state the case, if the bishop doesn’t do anything you continue to serve in obedience quietly. If the bishop exiles you somewhat, then you continue to serve in obedience never to mention the matter again - but in both cases offer the situation up to our Lord for His resolution, in His time.

I don’t see that the CCC says we have the right and obligation to go to the priest/bishop with the matter AND air the matter publicly on a forum, in the news, or other format which does promote scandal within the church.

Yes, the USCCB, as an organization is plagued with troubles from within. Yes we are called to write to our immediate bishop to express our concern. But that’s where that part ends. We leave it in the hands of the bishop and our Lord. If we don’t approve of how the bishop responds it is NOT our place to circumvent his action or lack thereof. It is our place to pray.
 
vacanebrake said:
The title/statement seems so straight forward, how do we judge? The Bishops are the individuals who watch over my/our faith. I don’t know their minds, I don’t try to second guess motives of the clergy, and I hope and pray they are directed by the Holy Spirit. It appears to me in most cases that holds true. As a candidate to the Secular Franciscan Order I don’t see how I could not support our bishops or how any member of our Church could not. **Fraternal correction I guess is a possibility carried out in a matter between a Church member and the bishop(s), but not publicly. **
I’ve only be an active new member for a couple of weeks. Ya’al get into some tough matters. God Bless. :tiphat::twocents:

Peace
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You’re already on your way to being a faithful son of St. Francis. We do have an obligation to correct those who are mistaken or in error. Our holy Father said such. But he also added that it must always be done privately, with charity, great respect and never quarrelsome. To do otherwise is to turn our back on our vocatioin to follow the Crucified Christ.

And let all the brothers, the ministers and servants as well as the others, take care not to be troubled or angered because of the fault or bad example of another, for the devil desires to corrupt many through the sin of one; but let them spiritually help him who has sinned, as best they can; for he that is whole needs not a physician, but he that is sick.

Rule of St. Francis

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
GAHere said:
I gotta side with the Franciscan here. We have the right, and the obligation - to go to the sacred pastors - about these matters. This is what the brother explained about his order. Go to the bishop, state the case, if the bishop doesn’t do anything you continue to serve in obedience quietly. If the bishop exiles you somewhat, then you continue to serve in obedience never to mention the matter again - but in both cases offer the situation up to our Lord for His resolution, in His time.
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I would say don’t stop; go to Rome over some of these issues. At least let the Holy See know that these events are not going un-noticed.
 
It is clear that the idea that Christ’s Church does not invite in Satan and the other evil spirits to get a free shot at the multitudes assembled for God.

If it were desirable I’m sure Christ would have demonstrated this to us during the Sermon on the Mount, by giving Satan equal time.

We are called to turn away from those that would tickle our ears -not toy around with their delicious sounding deceits. Shame again on those that brought this insult to the Church about in the false name of the secular god of diversity of moral belief.

There will be no diversity among the good and the evil after Judgment Day.
 
I’d like to ask two simple questions and I am not asking to start or further argument, I’m asking to try and gain some understanding.

If the only “right” way to address what one sees as problems in the Church is by some private exchange, then why do we have a collection of epistles by St. Paul included in our Holy Scripture where he did NOT do that? He wrote letters to various churches knowing they would most likely be read by many there, and in them he called out people, some by name, and admonished them for things they were doing wrong. This doesn’t seem to mesh with the idea that the only way to correct something wrong institutionally is to do it privately.

The other question is, to whom do you go to do this private admonishment? We can’t even know from the USCCB who is in charge of making the various decisions gone bad, nor can we know the process. Lacking that, it’s difficult to figure out just who is the most appropriate recipient of concerns. Go to your Bishop you say… well, that’s a good answer, but what if your Bishop isn’t even involved with those committees? In such a case, wouldn’t you still be faced with the situation where you want to correct A but you are addressing the concerns to B?

As long as there is a shield around the truth from the organization, it’s impossible to know who to address.
 
This whole scandal describes the USCCB.

They make bold statements on abortion, homosexuality and natural family planning but then they donate and support groups that are contrary to these teachings.

A pro homosexual document: Always Our Children came out of the USCCB and positive reviews on Broback Mt, a pro homosexual movie were also forthrite from the USCCB,

This whole issue whitewashes what is going on in most parishes and dioceses. For 40 years, most Catholics have not heard a homily on abortion, homosexuality, pornography, pre-marital sex and birth control.

This purposeful philosophy has resulted in most catholics being ignorant of their faith and has allowed pro choice democrats like O’Bama to get elected.

The USCCB has presided over the largest Catholic meltdown since the protestant reformation.

These bishops need to go.
 
AnotherVoice said:
I would say don’t stop; go to Rome over some of these issues. At least let the Holy See know that these events are not going un-noticed.
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You honestly believe Rome doesn’t already know?
I don’t believe for a second Rome wasn’t aware of the sex abuse scandal, however, Rome chose to ‘deal’ with the situation as it saw fit. I don’t like it, but I accept that I do not know the reasons behind the course of action. I trust the Lord will prevail in time.
Same goes for this USCCB problem. I believe Rome is aware.
I believe Rome is focusing on it in some capacity.
It is not for me to understand that capacity or to question it, but to trust that God’s will will be done, eventually.
In the meantime, I’m still with the Franciscan. I won’t scandalize the church further by pronouncing the problem outside the proper channels, and that line is between me and my bishop, not beyond.
 
FAB said:
The USCCB is the United states Conference of Catholic **Bishops **. Who do tou thinkg the “organization” is? The oranization and others like it are encourages ans set up by Rome not only in the US but in all countries. These confirences are best to reconginze and meet the needs of the country they are in. ***By the way, the bishops in the USCCB are part of the Magiserium. ***The church cannot oparate in a vacuum. From reading various article, as slated as they are against the church, including with the one that started this thread.

John Carr once worked with an organization that AFTER he left it, is supposedly involved in pro abortion activites, there’s no reasoon to crucify him Ho-Zay.

Peace,
FAB
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Very old but must be refuted for new readers.

Pope Benedict XVI clearly disagrees when as Cardinal Ratzinger he tells us that the national bishops councils are NOT the magisterium. (read the Ratzinger Report)
 
GAHere said:
I don’t see that the CCC says we have the right and obligation to go to the priest/bishop with the matter AND air the matter publicly on a forum, in the news, or other format which does promote scandal within the church.

Yes, the USCCB, as an organization is plagued with troubles from within. Yes we are called to write to our immediate bishop to express our concern. But that’s where that part ends. We leave it in the hands of the bishop and our Lord. If we don’t approve of how the bishop responds it is NOT our place to circumvent his action or lack thereof. It is our place to pray.
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Keeping silent is exactly what allowed pedophile priests to go on abusing children. Bishops were being trusted to handle the matter so parents, teachers, and other adults who knew what was going on kept faithfully quiet.

No one on this forum is discussing anything that is not already common knowledge in this country. No one is singling out particular bishops and discussing private matters. No one here is causing scandal to the Church - the scandal has been done. No one is dishonored, defamed, or disrespected by someone speaking truth.
 
momor said:
Keeping silent is exactly what allowed pedophile priests to go on abusing children. Bishops were being trusted to handle the matter so parents, teachers, and other adults who knew what was going on kept faithfully quiet.

No one on this forum is discussing anything that is not already common knowledge in this country. No one is singling out particular bishops and discussing private matters. No one here is causing scandal to the Church - the scandal has been done. No one is dishonored, defamed, or disrespected by someone speaking truth.
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I believe John Paul II exhorts us to call black, black, white, white, and evil evil. He doesn’t even so much as hint, suggest, or nuance that such should only be done in a manner to protect the Church - the same Church that Paul XI told the world that the smoke of Satan has entered it.

Was Paul causing scandal by reporting that evil, or was he warning Christ’s body of the grave danger?
 
Don_L said:
Very old but must be refuted for new readers.

Pope Benedict XVI clearly disagrees when as Cardinal Ratzinger he tells us that the national bishops councils are NOT the magisterium. (read the Ratzinger Report)
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The Magisterium is the pope and all the Bishops. since the american council is made up of bishops, they are a large part not whole of the Magisterium.
Peace,
FAB
 
momor said:
No one on this forum is discussing anything that is not already common knowledge in this country. No one is singling out particular bishops and discussing private matters. **No one here is causing scandal to the Church - the scandal has been done. **No one is dishonored, defamed, or disrespected by someone speaking truth.
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Hear, hear! And further scandal will continue to the detriment of the Church! How many more undiscerning souls will be mislead by these radicals which the silence protects? BTW, I now notice that one of the speakers of this event was also a frequent guest and promoter of the heretical organization “Call to Action.” (On a sidenote, Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belonged to CTA in his Lincoln Diocese - many years ago.) AND STILL this continues.
 
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