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PJH_74
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There’s no real problem with general feminism, the problem is the entrenched response by those who had power to lose or had strong traditionalists feelings.
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ATraveller
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The topic is the sexual revolution not feminism. Are we even discussing the same topic here?
I’m sure Harvey Weinstein is a traditionalist. Roman Polanski too I suppose.
Power, I can agree. And they slid right into cultural institutions masquerading as allies of women. And the sexual revolution gave those in power protection.
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Alex337
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Should we judge every institution based on how certain people abuse it?PJH_74:
The topic is the sexual revolution not feminism. Are we even discussing the same topic here?
I’m sure Harvey Weinstein is a traditionalist. Roman Polanski too I suppose.
Power, I can agree. And they slid right into cultural institutions masquerading as allies of women. And the sexual revolution gave those in power protection.
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ATraveller
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I’m not directly criticizing any institutions in that reply. I was simply pointing out how one event in the 1960s gave cover to predators.
But we do criticize institutions like churches over abuse and rightly so. But why is it when Hollywood or certain political groups get criticised, they are held to a different (lower) standard? It’s empirically proven media have profound effects in shaping culture yet they get a free pass. #MeToo is only a start but the rot is much deeper than what the #MeToo movement has been dealing with.
But we do criticize institutions like churches over abuse and rightly so. But why is it when Hollywood or certain political groups get criticised, they are held to a different (lower) standard? It’s empirically proven media have profound effects in shaping culture yet they get a free pass. #MeToo is only a start but the rot is much deeper than what the #MeToo movement has been dealing with.
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Alex337
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Ah, we criticise the actual social institution, the organisation of the church. Not the idea behind it.
But back on topic. I’m yet to see anything that shows the sexual revolution created this problem. Indeed you agreed it didn’t. Nor have I seen proof that it’s become worse, from accounts I’ve seen it’s simply being reported more, and in some cases the offence is only since the revolution become considered inappropriate. The number of times I hear older fellows reminisce about how they used to be able to say inappropriate things to secretaries, or worse, it’s impressive.
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PJH_74
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I don’t know why you are fixated with individual famous people’s sexual misdeeds and what ever their relationship with feminism was or wasn’t. Many of us are addressing the general push back on things like feminism.
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ATraveller
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No I didn’t say anything of that sort. I’ve been criticizing the sexual revolution through out this thread and cited actual feminists who have inadvertently exposed the problems the revolution created.
They’ve been cited multiple times but if you willfully ignore them that’s not my problem.
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ATraveller
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Those individuals remained in their positions until finally no more could be tolerated. The sexual revolution gave them a façade to hide behind.
Then we aren’t discussing the same thing are we? Feminism existed way before the sexual revolution in the 1960’s.
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Alex337
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So the sexual revolution created sexism assault?Alex337:
No I didn’t say anything of that sort. I’ve been criticizing the sexual revolution through out this thread and cited actual feminists who have inadvertently exposed the problems the revolution created.
They’ve been cited multiple times but if you willfully ignore them that’s not my problem.
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anon10271182
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planned “parenthood” is “run” by mass murderers. 'Nuff said.
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Alex337
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Okay, what did Charlie Chaplin hide behind? This stuff has existed before the revolution.PJH_74:
Those individuals remained in their positions until finally no more could be tolerated. The sexual revolution gave them a façade to hide behind.
Then we aren’t discussing the same thing are we? Feminism existed way before the sexual revolution in the 1960’s.
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ATraveller
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No. Again, this is the third time, sex assaults and predation existed prior to the revolution.
For abuse and predatory behaviour, the sexual revolution didn’t fix the problem. The supporters of the revolution insist it did but it didn’t. I’m practically repeating myself on several points and points already in the article.
The article also points out how the sexual revolution has enabled and worsened economic inequality by changing the mindsets of society. One parent families, usually moms, are at a disadvantage but this family set up growing as a proportion of family units across the west. The data consistently show the vast majority of single-parent homes are naturally disadvantaged. Government could assist when divorce happens or a spouse dies but it becomes more difficult when single-parent families become the norm because governments don’t have limitless supplies of money.
Another point was that women’s bodies have been commoditised.
He hid under the old social order.
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Alex337
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I think that has more to do with no fault divorce (which I support) and fewer people being forced into marriage (which I also support) than the sexual revolution.Alex337:
No. Again, this is the third time, sex assaults and predation existed prior to the revolution.
For abuse and predatory behaviour, the sexual revolution didn’t fix the problem. The supporters of the revolution insist it did but it didn’t. I’m practically repeating myself on several points and points already in the article.
The article also points out how the sexual revolution has enabled and worsened economic inequality by changing the mindsets of society. One parent families, usually moms, are at a disadvantage but this family set up growing as a proportion of family units across the west. The data consistently show the vast majority of single-parent homes are naturally disadvantaged. Government could assist when divorce happens or a spouse dies but it becomes more difficult when single-parent families become the norm because governments don’t have limitless supplies of money.
Another point was that women’s bodies have been commoditised.
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ATraveller
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Liberalizing divorce was part of that revolution.
How common were forced marriages? They weren’t the majority as far as I’m aware.
The sexual revolution changed attitudes towards sex and that resulted in marriage no longer being the ideal setting for children despite the fact sociological data says it is.
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Alex337
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That’s very hard to determine, and varies from place to place. Being from a rural setting it certainly seems to have been quite prevalent here. Parents would force a marriage even without a child on the way of there seemed to be scandal.Alex337:
Liberalizing divorce was part of that revolution.
How common were forced marriages? They weren’t the majority as far as I’m aware.
The sexual revolution changed attitudes towards sex and that resulted in marriage no longer being the ideal setting for children despite the fact sociological data says it is.
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ATraveller
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That is true. But we can get a rough estimate the majority are not, at least in West. Likely even in the recent past.
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Alex337
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I don’t think we can, especially when you consider the rush of “grey divorces” that happened once they were capable. We must also remember that before no fault divorce women were more likely to kill themselves in order to escape a marriage, or murder for that matter: https://ssc.wisc.edu/~sdurlauf/networkweb1/temp/Divorceweb.htmlAlex337:
That is true. But we can get a rough estimate the majority are not, at least in West. Likely even in the past.
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2towers
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You are and always will be, welcome here at CAF, but why are you here? What draws you to this forum? I would also pose the same question to PJH_74.
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Alex337
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I’m beginning to think I should put the answer in my bioAlex337:
You are and always will be, welcome here at CAF, but why are you here? What draws you to this forum? I would also pose the same question to PJH_74.
I enjoy religious discussion.- Status