Sexual Morality "Opt-out"

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

I meant bye from this particular thread not from CAF.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Well, I think people have to realize that Jesus told the Truth. The Truth is there is a hell and the Truth is if you do certain things sexually, you risk going there.

Remember, Jesus was executed and not pleasantly with people standing around who once listened to him just for telling the Truth. So the question really isn’t how Jesus would treat people (fairly and with mercy for those ask) but how people treat Jesus.

I don’t know of any priest who uses the “Sinners in the Hands of Angry God” approach. Such things would not work AT ALL today, and it’s much more of a Protestant than a Catholic approach.

But I also think that if Jesus or the Saints were alive today, a lot of people who think they are educated or elite would be stunned by what they would say and may well be the first in line to call for their martyrdom----AGAIN.

You most likely will drive them further away. I don’t think Jesus treated people that way, honestly.

But I am agnostic. So that is just me.

There are reasons why a lot of people, myself included, will listen more to atheists and agnostics on certain issues than religious authority. It’s not about who is what religion as it is who is right or who just knows what is going on. And a lot of atheists and agnostics have done quite a bit for the Catholic community even at their own personal expense. So suffice to say, your POV is important.

 

[PetraG]

Sexual morality is not just an academic subject. It is a values subject. You don’t force those kinds of lessons on anyone by brining them in and not telling them what they can anticipate. It is disrespectful.

I don’t want to keep talking past each other, either, except to say that confirmation preparation isn’t about much EXCEPT values. The knowledge you pick up is knowledge about values, values that the Church hands down from one generation to the next as a rich inheritance to which all are entitled.

Some confirmation classes publish an agenda in advance, and others don’t, just as some priests will give advance notice of the topic of their homilies and others don’t. I fail to see how having a topic presented you had to expect you would hear about eventually but on a day you didn’t expect it is disrespectful.

Yes, some people might be sensitive to issues surrounding marriage but let’s face it: others might be senstive to topics surrounding death, poverty, and even how much overall catechesis the candidate has had compared to peers. If a family is in an extreme situation with regards to one or more topics that are realistically likely to be covered, the parents can anticipate that and proactively talk to the presenters in advance.

I will agree on this: It is unkind to interact with others in a way you realistically know will be upsetting when you can reasonably avoid it. It isn’t automatically a sin to upset somebody, but it isn’t kind to choose to take a chance to do so without a very good reason. Having said that, it is also a spiritual work of mercy to bear the faults of others and the unavoidable ups and downs of life patiently. It goes both ways.

 

[Lara]

Edited for brevity

 

[Blessedwithfive]

By their parents in the home.

 

[CilladeRoma]

If that were only the case. There are some parents who do this, however, most of our kids parents don’t know Catholic teaching, which is why the Bishop developwd this new Confirmation prep program.
I am doing what has been asked of me by my Bishop. I am not making up a program as I go along, and I am not going to ad-lib a lesson with my own agenda.
The Bishop has stated that “opting out” of this teaching is not possible, but he is willing to let families teach at home, so long as the candidate can articulate teaching in their readiness interview or via a written worksheet given to the lead catechist. He is not going to bend on this and has said as much. We have been instructed to send all new correspondence about this to him directly and he will take care of it.
Apparently, it is only a small, vocal group in our parish that has such a big problem.with this. In fact, most people I have met are glad we are taking this on in Confirmation prep, as it takes them off the hook from having this conversation with thier kids.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

If that were only the case. There are some parents who do this, however, most of our kids parents don’t know Catholic teaching, which is why the Bishop developwd this new Confirmation prep program.
I am doing what has been asked of me by my Bishop. I am not making up a program as I go along, and I am not going to ad-lib a lesson with my own agenda.
The Bishop has stated that “opting out” of this teaching is not possible, but he is willing to let families teach at home, so long as the candidate can articulate teaching in their readiness interview or via a written worksheet given to the lead catechist. He is not going to bend on this and has said as much. We have been instructed to send all new correspondence about this to him directly and he will take care of it.
Apparently, it is only a small, vocal group in our parish that has such a big problem.with this. In fact, most people I have met are glad we are taking this on in Confirmation prep, as it takes them off the hook from having this conversation with thier kids.

That’s the problem…parents will think they are “off the hook”. I feel very strongly that parents SHOULD teach this topic and I would have no problem with my kids completing a worksheet. I don’t think ANYONE was advocating that this should not be taught, but that is should be taught by the parents (or at least give them the option).

 

[1ke]

In fact, most people I have met are glad we are taking this on in Confirmation prep, as it takes them off the hook from having this conversation with thier kids.

If that is the case then the program is not in conformity with The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality, it does not form the parents, it does not respect or encourage the parents as primary educators.

THESE are the parents you should be teaching.

 

[1ke]

I am having a hard time believing that people think it is wrong to teach confirmation candidates about marriage and what the Church teaches about marriage

No one thinks this.

It’s not the primary purpose of Confirmation preparation. Keeping in mind that babies and 8 year olds and 8th graders and all sorts of ages receive the sacrament of confirmation, this is not an essential prerequisite for the sacrament and we mustn’t treat it that way.

Yes morality is an important part of Catholic teaching and can be offered in religious education classes in the parish. BUT it is always the inalienable and absolute right of the parents to be the ones to teach this instead. It can be offered in the parish, not required.

 

[CilladeRoma]

It’s not the primary purpose of Confirmation preparation. Keeping in mind that babies and 8 year olds and 8th graders and all sorts of ages receive the sacrament of confirmation, this is not an essential prerequisite for the sacrament and we mustn’t treat it that way.

You keep saying this, but you seem to not realize that this program is the Bishop’s doing- not mine, not my parish, not my priest. It is the Bishop! I don’t necessarily agree with him but he is the boss and if I want to continue to be a Catechist, I must do as he wishes.
Since you seem to think what he is doing is wrong, would you like to suggest a course of action that we can take to improve the situation?

 

[1ke]

You keep saying this, but you seem to not realize that this program is the Bishop’s doing- not mine, not my parish, not my priest. It is the Bishop! I don’t necessarily agree with him but he is the boss and if I want to continue to be a Catechist, I must do as he wishes.

I do realize that it is what your bishop has asked for.

Doing what he asks does not mean stopping dialog back to him on what is working and what is not. We teach sexual morality to our high schoolers. I’m not saying don’t teach it. What I am suggesting is:

1. It shouldn’t be positioned as a prerequisite for the sacrament of confirmation because it isn’t
2. There should not be a “test” for the sacrament of confirmation. Assessments should be used for remediation and for changes to the program, not to deny a child the sacrament.
3. Sacraments require MINIMAL knowledge-- we affirm the Creed, we don’t recite the catechism. Children who are 8 years old receive this sacrament. Children who are mentally handicapped receive this sacrament. Babies receive this sacrament. This sacrament is NOT about a huge body of knowledge. It is about completing baptism and receiving grace.
4. Parents should have the option to teach their children at home
5. This particular subject could legitimately be taught post-confirmation, or separate from confirmation.

Since you seem to think what he is doing is wrong, would you like to suggest a course of action that we can take to improve the situation?

I already did, via my PM to you regarding a program to form the parents from the time they are seeking baptism for their child in how to be the educators of their children in the faith including sexual morality.

For the immediate situation, just send the material home to the 10 parents, which you probably already have. And move on. Don’t make a big deal out of it, because it’s not a big deal.

 

[1ke]

Yes I have.

Then apparently you didn’t get it. Because what the DRE did violated the principles laid out in the Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality.

What have I posted that is in conflict?

Parents know their child. Parents know what the children are ready for when it comes to discussing sexual morality and the best way to talk with their own child about it. Parents have a right-- an inalienable and absolute right-- to be the ones to broach these topics with their child. What the DRE did was violate the parents rights as educators of their children on human sexuality.

What the DRE did was wrong.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I would have thought by now that everyone connected with the Church would have learned their lesson as well a bquinnann has.

I have no earthly idea what a “bquinnann” is. Neither does Google!

 

[TheLittleLady]

Exactly what value is talking about birth control, in the moral sense, if the kid doesn’t have a proper understanding of what the different methods are and how they work? Seems like a huge waste of time.

Unless a child is homeschooled and closely monitored by their parents, they are familiar with birth control from health class, from movies and videos, songs, YouTubers, etc.

Anyway, a class in Faith Formation/RE/CCD/Sac Prep should not be a nuts and bolts sort of sex ed talk.

Simply stating that sex is reserved for a valid natural marriage, and that in the marriage contraception is wrong is enough. Someone will ask about specifics, “this is not a venue to discuss the science of contraception, what we all need to realize is that God designed the female body so she is fertile approx X days each month. He also designed her body to give signs so she and her husband can determine if she is fertile. The spouses then use the natural signs of fertility to determine if they will have marital relations on those days. The ways to interpret these signs are called Natural Family Planning or Fertility Awareness Methods, and you can learn more about them in the future.”

 

[TheLittleLady]

This sort of understanding is why our first Confirmation Prep Parents meeting begins with reading the Catechism:

1285 Baptism, the Eucharist, and the sacrament of Confirmation together constitute the “sacraments of Christian initiation,” whose unity must be safeguarded. It must be explained to the faithful that the reception of the sacrament of Confirmation is necessary for the completion of baptismal grace. For "by the sacrament of Confirmation, [the baptized] are more perfectly bound to the Church and are enriched with a special strength of the Holy Spirit. Hence they are, as true witnesses of Christ, more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith by word and deed."

Through

1319 A candidate for Confirmation who has attained the age of reason must profess the faith, be in the state of grace, have the intention of receiving the sacrament, and be prepared to assume the role of disciple and witness to Christ, both within the ecclesial community and in temporal affairs.

and several of the paragraphs in between.

 

[Paul71]

I have no earthly idea what a “bquinnann” is. Neither does Google!

It is the screen name of someone who posted earlier in this topic.

 

[PetraG]

It’s not the primary purpose of Confirmation preparation. Keeping in mind that babies and 8 year olds and 8th graders and all sorts of ages receive the sacrament of confirmation, this is not an essential prerequisite for the sacrament and we mustn’t treat it that way.

Yes morality is an important part of Catholic teaching and can be offered in religious education classes in the parish. BUT it is always the inalienable and absolute right of the parents to be the ones to teach this instead. It can be offered in the parish, not required.

Let me be upfront: you are preaching to the choir, since I think a year of meetings as a prerequisite for confirmation was excessive, to say the least. Having said that, bishops currently have the latitude to require what they will require in order to prepare candidates for confirmation. If the programs takes two years (?!?), then it should surprise no one that there is going to be catechetical instruction on topics that were not appropriate prior to First Holy Communion.

But yes: I think the evidence is that it should not be as hard as it is to get a bishop to consent to confer confirmation as it often is now. This is leading to many Catholics not completing the sacraments of initiation. As praiseworthy as the intention is, I agree that it is having the effect of denying the sacrament. Having said all that, I am not a bishop, I’ll never be a bishop, and since our bishop required this as what he thought was required to be properly instructed, that is what we did. He gets to set the curriculum and define what it means to be properly instructed.

 

[CilladeRoma]

We started our meeting with this also. And the quote that says parents are the primary teachers of the faith.

Sadly, what we have run into in my diocese is the attitude that Sacraments are just boxes to check off for most people.

Our Bishop was not happy with the state of Catechesis in our diocese when he got here, and since this is what he could change, he did.

Slowly, more changes are coming, but there is even greater resistance to some of those proposed changes.

I don’t think people really understand what catechists are up against. All we want to do is share our love of the faith with others. We do it in the parameters set by our priest and the Bishop. I do not agree with all of them, but it is not my place to tell my Bishop he is wrong.

The Bishop has been told, by me and many others that the program is problematic and we are worried that it may be turning away some families. Those facts have not changed his mind. In fact, it seems to have made him “dig in” a little more.

I am not sure what the answer is, and I thank everyone who has participated in this thread, even those of you who think I am the problem. This thread has helped me a lot in my discernment as to whether or not I continue as a Confirmation catechist.

 

[1ke]

even those of you who think I am the problem.

I don’t think anyone thinks this.

Please do not take comments and advice personally. They are not geared towards you personally. There is a lot of brainstorming here. A lot of opinion about the sacrament of confirmation and about parental formation and a whole lot of other things.

Everyone understands that this is a directive you’ve been given. You can only work within the parameters you are given.

Yes, ultimately you do need to discern whether you continue or not. I’ve had to do the same at various points in my life as a catechist and a volunteer in various ministries.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I honestly do believe that you don’t read threads. If you did, you would see that I and other Catechists are part of the problem according to some. The attitude of some people on this thread is exactly why parishes have such a hard time holding onto Catechists.