Shootings demonstrate need for gun control, USCCB says

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We have an obligation to obey the civil authorities.
Really? The civil authority in the countries I’ve lived in once recognized slavery. So what would you do about the underground railroad? How about Bible bans in Saudi Arabia?
in fact, all predominately Catholic nations have tight gun controls than what the US has.
Yes. Brazil is a good example as their murder and suicide rate are higher than the US’s. But hey, you’ve got your technicality example from Vatican policy, so who cares about results?
 
@Superluigi

Slavery was officially taught as a grave evil in a Papal Bull a long, long time ago. I think it was in the 1500s by one of the Pope Pius’s, talking about the enslavement of Christians by the Ottoman Turks, but I would need to look it up. It was also outlawed a long time before that in the late Roman period, once Christianity had mostly replaced paganism. But that is a more complex subject since “slavery” can take on multiple layers. A form of slavery existed among the early Christians themselves, but it operated very differently from the slavery in America. Then there was serfdom, which can be argued as a form of slavery. The whole subject can be nuanced in terms of what “slavery” exactly means. To the present day, slavery is not identified as an intrinsic evil. The reasons for this are complex.

The CC has also spoken about violations of basic religious liberties, though I cannot supply exact statements without doing homework. But as far as banned Bibles in Saudi Arabia, the Church has spoken about this.

The Church speaks whenever something is a grave evil. It hasn’t spoken such about gun control because said evil doesn’t exist. There is no appeal to Tradition to be found because it isn’t’ here. “You can have my gun when you peel it from my cold, dead fingers” is a secular Americanism and nothing more than that.
 
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antifa was endorsed early on by the left. even the queen herself. hence the quote.

if as you claim antifa wasn’t part of the left, what resistance group is hillary supporting?
 
Has the USCCB ever opined on why our society is so full of murderers? There are 300 million guns in private hands and billions of rounds of ammunition. If guns or gun owners were the problem…

WE WOULD KNOW IT.

The USCCB spokesperson, in an unfortunately typical alliance with leftist activists and politicians, defaults to blaming inanimate objects for the MURDER that originates in the human heart.

Should any focus - any at all - be placed on the spiritual rot that is causing the proliferation of murderers?
 
Has the USCCB ever opined on why our society is so full of murderers? There are 300 million guns in private hands and billions of rounds of ammunition. If guns or gun owners were the problem…
Nope, but since they longer receive my money, that’s on them.
 
So if the law of the land changes,and certain firearms become prohibited, then a person is obliged to obey it under pain of sin.
the courts had ordered the removal of certain religious statue from government property. the politician refused to do it. now the see hasn’t entered the debate on this issue so is the politician sinning because he refuses to remove the statue?
 
No.

There isn’t a basis in Tradition for being anti-gun control, as a matter of faith, because it doesn’t exist. There have been many opportunities for the Church to speak out over removing or reducing the arms of a population, and it hasn’t done it. The same is not true for religious liberties, which is in constant conflict with civil authorities.

You are entitled to your views. You can turn your house into an armory if that is what you want to do. Secular law allows you to do that (for now). But if you’re going to call it a God-given right, then you’re doing it without Authority.
 
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Not-all-that-fake news: “Culture rot and lack of spiritual direction signal possible need for USCCB control” noted societal expert says.
 
call it a God-given right, then you’re doing it without Authority.
the authority is the church. catechism 2264/65 the first is your right to self defense. the second is for the defense of your family. some want to limit this to just people in authority but ST JPII doesn’t. he states the common good of the family or of the state.

the bold is mine in 2265 giving us the right to use ARMS
2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.
Pope John Paul II’s encyclical letter, Evangelium Vitae summarizes the issue perfectly.
There are in fact situations in which values proposed by God’s Law seem to involve a genuine paradox. This happens for example in the case of legitimate defence, in which the right to protect one’s own life and the duty not to harm someone else’s life are difficult to reconcile in practice. Certainly, the intrinsic value of life and the duty to love oneself no less than others are the basis of a true right to self-defence. The demanding commandment of love of neighbour, set forth in the Old Testament and confirmed by Jesus, itself presupposes love of oneself as the basis of comparison: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself ” (Mk 12:31). Consequently, no one can renounce the right to self-defence out of lack of love for life or for self. This can only be done in virtue of a heroic love which deepens and transfigures the love of self into a radical self-offering, according to the spirit of the Gospel Beatitudes (cf. Mt 5:38-40). The sublime example of this self-offering is the Lord Jesus himself. Moreover, “legitimate defence can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life, the common good of the family or of the State”. [The quotation is from # 2265 in the first edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.] Unfortunately it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason.
 
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JonNC:
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TK421:
The US constitution is a man-made invention. It was not penned by God. A human being saying that gun ownership is a God-given right does not make it so, anymore than a human being saying there is no sun makes the sun cease to exist.
But the rights protected there are inherent. And the right to self defense are inherent.
You saying we don’t have a right to self defense also doesn’t make it right.
The right to defend yourself is inherent. The right to own a specific gun is not. Your saying so, or even the founding fathers saying so, does not make it so.
He is not talking about a specific firearm
 
I have not said that people do not have the right to defend themselves. I do not have the authority to say such a thing.

Let’s do a thought experiment: so people have a right to defend themselves. Does that mean we are allowed to have machine guns? What about drones with a weapon payload? What about killing somebody before we even know their intentions?
You have not said people don’t have a right to defend themselves. I have not said people have a right to automatic weapons. In fact, that is the line in the sand: semi-automatic as legal civilian firearms, from handguns to rifles such as the AR-15 platform.
How do you bear a drone?
The 18th century Enlightenment thinkers who wrote the US constitution called it an inalienable right.
If you read Heller, the SCOTUS indicates the reason. In short, they received that understanding from a lot of history
 
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Repetition … but USCCB needs to preach without end: respect for life.

Is Chicago a Catholic town? Then why do they have so many killings?

List the cities by number of killings … They are all Democratic Party precincts.

Why is that?

Why do we overlook the obvious and ignore where regulations fail completely.

The Catholic Church has to preach and teach respect for life.
 
List the cities by number of killings … They are all Democratic Party precincts.

Why is that?

Why do we overlook the obvious and ignore where regulations fail completely.

The Catholic Church has to preach and teach respect for life.
I think it’s because they spend so much effort keeping guns out of the hands of the law abiding, instead of going after criminals with guns.
 
The .223 Remingtion round used by the AR-15, is a low power round with a muzzle energy of 1099 ft\lbs, considered too light in many states to hunt legally deer with. So is the AR-15 excluded?
Well said. It reveals the political deceit in the term “assault rifles”.
 
:sigh:

There is no specific firearm that a person has a God-given right to have.
There is no God-given right for the general population to own firearms for the purpose of national or family defense.

The CC has had redundant opportunities to speak about gun buyback being an intrinsic evil. It has a grave moral obligation to do so if it is the case. That has never happened in the many countries that reduced or removed firearms from the population pool. Differences of opinion exist on this, but generally, Catholics and Catholic clergy support at minimum moderate gun restrictions. Only 3 countries in the world have armaments written in their constitution; if there was a God-given right to it, the CC would be throwing red flags up all over the place.

It is not caving under secular pressure to an intrinsic evil. That is metaphysically impossible. If it didn’t cave to contraception, it’s not going to cave to anything else. I think we’ve seen in action the immunity of the Church to public whims.

I’m going to unsubscribe from the thread now. Thank you to all who have talked with me.
 
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The BEST gun control is the well formed conscience of the residents.

The CATHOLIC CHURCH (and other churches) need to constantly reinforce among their congregants the need for a developed conscience.

You just don’t go around killing your fellow residents.
 
There is no specific firearm that a person has a God-given right to have.

There is no God-given right for the general population to own firearms for the purpose of national or family defense.
If you do not believe I need a firearm for family defense, who should I rely on to protect me?
 
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