Should homosexual men be allowed to be priests?

[goofyjim]

“Remember I am not fit for an exgay groups since I was never gay to begin with.” goofyjim Ex-gay organization or groups thread; post #84

So goofyjim, if you were never ‘gay’ to begin with, why would WHAT not be cause for alarm when you were in the Boy Scouts?

You’re missing the context of your own statement as well. Back then I still had the disposition, temptations, whatever. Noone knew of them. Does that suddenly burst into a disaster if someone finds out? I still have no desire to act on them but remain for now a chaste “homosexual”. Accusations such as yours are what causes the temptation to suicide as much as anything else. Fortunately I do not face this from everybody. If a prospective unthoughtful word causes someone to commit suicide would that not be leading someone to sin and then be just as strong an error as all else. A different approach is all I ask.

If you have a BA in psychology, what did you learn about repetitive behavior? Can this be a sign of emotional instability and lack of clarity of thought? This does create a dilemma but I’m sure we can come to a consensus.

Peace.

 

[goofyjim]

“Remember I am not fit for an exgay groups since I was never gay to begin with.” goofyjim Ex-gay organization or groups thread; post #84

So goofyjim, if you were never ‘gay’ to begin with, why would WHAT not be cause for alarm when you were in the Boy Scouts?

Okay, I change my tune but must present frightening prospect and one that it will take all of us together to get through. The Vatican has already had a policy of not allowing homosexual men in the priesthood. How does it keep them out? Time for a new thread I fear.

But I don’t know how to start one.

 

[littleitaly]

In case those of you are not familiar with the Laws that were passed down to Moses which in turn were to be passed down to many generations to come, here it is: Leviticus Chapter 19 states The Lord said to Moses “Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God………now going to verse 22……You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination….”. Also noted in Lev 20, 13: Romans 1, 27: 1Cor.6, 9-10 Hopefully by reading these, your eyes will be opened to see a better light. Peace to you all and God bless

 

[goofyjim]

littleitaly:

In case those of you are not familiar with the Laws that were passed down to Moses which in turn were to be passed down to many generations to come, here it is: Leviticus Chapter 19 states The Lord said to Moses “Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the Lord, am your God………now going to verse 22……You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination….”. Also noted in Lev 20, 13: Romans 1, 27: 1Cor.6, 9-10 Hopefully by reading these, your eyes will be opened to see a better light. Peace to you all and God bless

It is not the unforgivable sin. If one has committed it and repents should one be judged for eternity?

 

[littleitaly]

goofyjim:

It is not the unforgivable sin. If one has committed it and repents should one be judged for eternity?

According to Jesus there is only one unforegivable sin and that is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. For one to repent of their sin is to be foregiven. But keep in mind that you are not to continue that sin. Remember what Jesus had done to several of the towns that he had worked miracles in, Matthew chapter 11 verses 20 thru 24

 

[Dolores49]

In the context of these times in which we find ourselves reeling from the dizzying news of sexual abuse of minors by Catholic priests, 80% of the victims male adolescents, I voted “Leaning To No.” In any other era, I would not have taken that position. But it is in knowing what I know about the homosexual underground in seminaries and parishes, plus the loss of good priests who were shunned for their stand against the homosexuals, that I make my judgment.

The following article sheds light on that percentage of priests who are homosexuals.

During the 2002 Conference of Catholic Bishops, Life Site News, an excellent news portal, filed this report,

“Priest Sex Scandal: Root causes are homosexuality, dissent, and modernism.”

"Most seriously, during the conference the bishops refused to address the core issues behind the scandal, namely homosexuality and widespread dissent from church teachings, particularly on sexual matters. The pope has emphasized that ending dissent must be the bishops’ top priority in dealing with this crisis.

Significantly, many critics say that this “catastrophe” within the North American church has been a logical result of corrupting dissent from the Church’s teaching on sexual morality. That dissent began, with the approval and even complicity of many bishops, with open defiance to Pope Paul VI’s encyclical Humane Vitae which reaffirmed the Church’s opposition to artificial birth control. Paul VI correctly predicted that the social, legal and theological acceptance of artificial birth control would lead to a general and deadly collapse of sexual morality.

Percentage of homosexual clergy far higher than previously thought

Many prominent Catholics, quoted in previous LifeSite reports, have emphasized that homosexuality within the church is an obvious, grave problem directly related to the abuse crisis. To the surprise of even well-informed conservatives, the percentage of homosexual Catholic clergy is now thought to be far higher than previously suspected - realistically perhaps even as high as 30%. Conference president Bishop Wilton Gregory told reporters in April that “It is an ongoing struggle. It is most importantly a struggle to make sure that the Catholic priesthood is not dominated by homosexual men”.

2% or even 10% of all priests could not be considered a potentially dominating faction. Gatekeepers, that is those who controlled admissions to seminaries, are known to have for many years given preference to gays and to exclude straight or at least faithful seminary candidates. These gatekeepers were often feminist nuns. It is therefore no wonder that the percentage of homosexual priests became so high.

Catholic World Report noted in its May 2002 issue that the Kansas City Star’s “examination of death certificates and interviews with experts indicates several hundred priests have died of AIDS-related illnesses since the mid-1980s. The death rate of priests from AIDS is at least four times that of the general population”, the newspaper said.

lifesite.net/ldn/2002/jun/020618a.html

 

[littleitaly]

It is disgraceful to the Holy Spirit, knowing that there are those who knowingly allow these type of men (and woman) to even enter the church to preach the gospel. I hope that they are truly forgiving of their ways soon, for if not, they know what lies ahead for them. It would seem to me that it would be a much greater sin for those who practice the word of God to commit such filthy lifestyles and then turn around and preach to us common people of the does and don’ts in life. God have mercy on their souls. This also applies to ministers of all religions, not just catholics. I will pray for their wrong ways in hope that they will change for the better. That is all I’m able to do (without being violent over the issue).

 

[Kevin_Walker]

goofyjim:

Okay, I change my tune but must present frightening prospect and one that it will take all of us together to get through. The Vatican has already had a policy of not allowing homosexual men in the priesthood. How does it keep them out? Time for a new thread I fear.

But I don’t know how to start one.

Hello goofyjim;

Again, this is not to be meant as a slam, but if you look at the history of various policies set by governments, you will notice a really good reason why governments don’t allow homosexuals to work in all sensitive areas - because of the pyschological imbalance inherent within homosexuality, intelligence agencies of other nations first select homosexuals as tagets for sedition (with alcoholism, gamblers, the indebted, the egotists as close secondary targets). Institutions maintain their integrity more by just simply disallowing homosexuals (and other emotional damaged individuals) access to positions of responsibility.

The same is true of the Catholic Church, and see what has happened due to the tolerance of known homosexual priests - an international tragedy and a severely injured Church.

So it is just an ugly reality that one must face, that the blind can’t become pilots, Downe Syndrome people cannot become surgeons, Dwarfs (little people?) cannot become State Troopers, the near or far sighted cannot become astronauts, and homosexuals shouldn’t become Catholic Priests.

And as far as I’m concerned, all of the above are welcomed in the Catholic Church and to become Catholics, but the Bible does contain specific obriums against homosexuality. So if one is a homosexual and a Catholic, there are certain realities within the faith once must face. And one of those realities is supporting a fellow Catholic!

 

[Kevin_Walker]

goofyjim:

You’re missing the context of your own statement as well. Back then I still had the disposition, temptations, whatever. Noone knew of them. Does that suddenly burst into a disaster if someone finds out? I still have no desire to act on them but remain for now a chaste “homosexual”. Accusations such as yours are what causes the temptation to suicide as much as anything else. Fortunately I do not face this from everybody. If a prospective unthoughtful word causes someone to commit suicide would that not be leading someone to sin and then be just as strong an error as all else. A different approach is all I ask.

If you have a BA in psychology, what did you learn about repetitive behavior? Can this be a sign of emotional instability and lack of clarity of thought? This does create a dilemma but I’m sure we can come to a consensus.

Peace.

Hello goofyjim,

If anybody has suicidal ideations, particularly if they are spoken out loud, one needs to seek out professional counseling services immediately. There is no shame in a psychological check-up once in a while, especially if someone needs it. Actually, it could be a fun learning experience by taking a trip to psychological or psychiatric counseling. People take physicals all the time (a body check up), and it would behoove some people to get a psychological (mind) check-up. Suicide is disallowed in the Catholic religion, so it is an act of responsibility to get a physical once in a while, and to get a ‘head’ check’ once in a while.

And yes we do study repetitive behaviour working for a degree in Psychology. Actually, obsessive/compulsive, i.e. Repetitive behaviour is one of the many behaviors to lie at the root of Alcoholism, Gambling, Petty Theft, Serial Killings, Self-Cutters, Liars, Control Freaks, Neat Freaks, etc. So if somebody recognizes these symptoms in themselves, or are constantly told about them by buddies, then its time for a psychological check-up.

p.s. A lot of extreme criminals get caught because of their ‘repetitive’ behaviour.

 

[fix]

goofyjim:

Y Accusations such as yours are what causes the temptation to suicide as much as anything else. Fortunately I do not face this from everybody. If a prospective unthoughtful word causes someone to commit suicide would that not be leading someone to sin and then be just as strong an error as all else. A different approach is all I ask.

Are you saying suicide can result from someone’s unthoughtful words? If that is true, then the problem is not with the one speaking, but the listener.

 

[goofyjim]

fix:

Are you saying suicide can result from someone’s unthoughtful words? If that is true, then the problem is not with the one speaking, but the listener.

A word said can still cause harm. Fr. Corapi states that most of us do more harm with our tongue than with our hands. If one does not choose carefully first what to say, that is a problem with the one speaking.

Am I really using these smile faces properly? Is it possible to create some more?

 

[fix]

goofyjim:

A word said can still cause harm. Fr. Corapi states that most of us do more harm with our tongue than with our hands. If one does not choose carefully first what to say, that is a problem with the one speaking.

Am I really using these smile faces properly? Is it possible to create some more?

I am not saying that words are unimportant. They can be sinful, but I can’t buy the argument homosexuals are killing themselves over words. If they are suicidal it goes much deeper than hearing someone’s words. It would be part and parcel of their illness.

 

[Tlaloc]

fix:

I am not saying that words are unimportant. They can be sinful, but I can’t buy the argument homosexuals are killing themselves over words. If they are suicidal it goes much deeper than hearing someone’s words. It would be part and parcel of their illness.

It’s really not that unusual, Fix. Take any group of people and subject them to constant harrasment, discrimination, belittlement. They’ll become more and more dysfunctional.

In another thread on homosexuality I brought up the eye-color little experiment Jane Elliot did:
everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=864733

Basically she told her class at the start of the day that brown eyed people were better than blue eyed people. They were smarter, stronger, et cetera. She gave them special priveleges and forced the blue eyed kids to do extra work. Another day she told them the reverse. The kids quickly became exactly what she had told them to be. The kids told they were inferior tested lower than before, they acted out and disturbed class. The kids told they were superior did better on tests.

If you tell a person day in and day out they are worthless, abnormal, or evil they’ll start acting up to your expectations. Or most will. That means groups that are typically very negatively recieved by society are likely to show greater rates of depression, suicide, criminal behavior, et cetrea.

We’re social animals, that has both good and bad aspects.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Tlaloc:

If you tell a person day in and day out they are worthless, abnormal, or evil they’ll start acting up to your expectations. Or most will. That means groups that are typically very negatively recieved by society are likely to show greater rates of depression, suicide, criminal behavior, et cetrea.

Yes Tlaloc,

Create some more mytho-history:

As I explained to you before in another post, this method of mind control is called the SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY - that is if you scream something long enough and often enough it will begin to be believed; which is why homosexual activists always scream discrimination, bigotry, the ‘Gay Gene’, claiming to be born a homosexual, or its not my fault, in order to make the public think a myth is a reality.

Homosexuals don’t have a mental health disorder; homosexuality is a mental health disorder - it is “objectively disordered” by Catholic definiation.

 

[littleitaly]

Fitz:

I don’t think it would be fair to restrict them, however if they are openly living with a partner then they have to be stopped and asked to leave. Haven’t you ever guessed someone to be gay and they are not? I just don’t know if they would be open about it and what would a bishop be able to do? You can’t tell someone that you think they act gay. Some manerisms are not completely indicative.

I voted yes, but I am certainly not in favor of an active gay priest.

If you consider yourself to be a true Christian then you would have deffiately had voted no. You should know as well as any other that it is not up to us to change the wording in the Bible. It Says in black and white ink that no man (or woman) is to defile themselves in any way.It is specified in Leviticus and Deu.If you insist on changing that on which the Holy Spirit has told us not to do, then the earth is doomed for distruction by society as we know it.

 

[Tlaloc]

Kevin Walker:

Homosexuals don’t have a mental health disorder; homosexuality is a mental health disorder - it is “objectively disordered” by Catholic definiation.

Which will be oh so relevent as soon as the Pope runs the APA.

 

[littleitaly]

Tlaloc:

It’s really not that unusual, Fix. Take any group of people and subject them to constant harrasment, discrimination, belittlement. They’ll become more and more dysfunctional.

In another thread on homosexuality I brought up the eye-color little experiment Jane Elliot did:
everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=864733

Basically she told her class at the start of the day that brown eyed people were better than blue eyed people. They were smarter, stronger, et cetera. She gave them special priveleges and forced the blue eyed kids to do extra work. Another day she told them the reverse. The kids quickly became exactly what she had told them to be. The kids told they were inferior tested lower than before, they acted out and disturbed class. The kids told they were superior did better on tests.

If you tell a person day in and day out they are worthless, abnormal, or evil they’ll start acting up to your expectations. Or most will. That means groups that are typically very negatively recieved by society are likely to show greater rates of depression, suicide, criminal behavior, et cetrea.

We’re social animals, that has both good and bad aspects.

Well said, Remember,to all that read, Jesus said that it is not what goes into ones mouth that causes him to sin but what comes out of ones mouth that causes him (or her) to sin. We should choose our words carefully to help those who are ill with these thoughts of wrong behavior (of all kinds). It is Satan who initially put these thoughts in the minds of the weak. As a Christian, it would be our responsability to help guide them away from these weaknesses. This is truly an up hill battle against the power of evil, but we as a group can overcome it. We can start off by praying for them. God bless and Peace to you all

 

[fix]

Tlaloc:

It’s really not that unusual, Fix. Take any group of people and subject them to constant harrasment, discrimination, belittlement. They’ll become more and more dysfunctional.

In another thread on homosexuality I brought up the eye-color little experiment Jane Elliot did:
everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=864733

Basically she told her class at the start of the day that brown eyed people were better than blue eyed people. They were smarter, stronger, et cetera. She gave them special priveleges and forced the blue eyed kids to do extra work. Another day she told them the reverse. The kids quickly became exactly what she had told them to be. The kids told they were inferior tested lower than before, they acted out and disturbed class. The kids told they were superior did better on tests.

If you tell a person day in and day out they are worthless, abnormal, or evil they’ll start acting up to your expectations. Or most will. That means groups that are typically very negatively recieved by society are likely to show greater rates of depression, suicide, criminal behavior, et cetrea.

We’re social animals, that has both good and bad aspects.

Yes, I know the experiment. It has no bearing on this discussion. Openly “gay” individulas are not only not discriminated against, but celebrated and endorsed.

The etiology of their pathology is not to be found in societal views, but in their personal upbringing and personality defects.

 

[fix]

littleitaly:

Well said, Remember,to all that read, Jesus said that it is not what goes into ones mouth that causes him to sin but what comes out of ones mouth that causes him (or her) to sin. We should choose our words carefully to help those who are ill with these thoughts of wrong behavior (of all kinds). It is Satan who initially put these thoughts in the minds of the weak. As a Christian, it would be our responsability to help guide them away from these weaknesses. This is truly an up hill battle against the power of evil, but we as a group can overcome it. We can start off by praying for them. God bless and Peace to you all

Your view is correct, but agreeing with that poster is way off. No one has advocated saying or doing anything unjust to those with SSAD. That those who suffer from SSAD constantly play the victim game is part of their pathology. Yes, let us pray for them.

 

[littleitaly]

fix:

That was not my only argument, but I think my point is fair and important. It is said many of the abusers in the priesthood were homosexuals looking for a life where they could hide their desires. The priesthood may afford them that opportunity.

I accept there have always been homosexuals in the priesthood and always will be. Some lead a chaste life and are holy men. But, why take that chance? Why is it sound reasoning to let in men who desire other men when they will be living in close contact on a daily basis? We would never think of allowing mixed sex living in the priesthood? Why risk the scandal? How will we foster more vocations if a young heterosexual man sees that vocation as a heaven for those with SSA?

Your way of thinking is the exact reason why we continue to have this problem in life. You tend to accept it because it is there wether it is right or wrong. In order to stop this nonsense of homosexual behavior, we must stand strong against their ways and do as the Bible says to and pray for their return to the proper way of life thru Christ. We also must not allow these people to have any type of authority in any Church, for it is written ;“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.” also “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death"For this cause God has given them up to **shameful **lusts ; for their women have exchanged the natural use for that which is against nature, in like manner the men also having abandoned the natural use of the woman, having burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men doing shameful things …” I will continue to pray for you and all other misguided souls…Peace to you and hope you will soon see the true light thru Jesus.