So Much For Trump's Latest Proposal

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Honestly, the GOP should have gotten rid of Trump in the primaries. He never should have made it to the general election.
The mainstream media MADE Trump during the primaries. They failed to report any of the devastating news about him then (example - holding onto the “grab’em by the …” tape until right before the general), but instead gave him tons of free airtime as he joined them in ripping apart the rest of the Repub candidates.

It wasnt till he won the primary did the media turn against him.
 
The rest, which is the majority, claim some sacred right to keep that information private on an anonymous message board, despite the boards being rife with details about people’s marital issues, over active scruples, or problems with pornography.
Unless you are tracking who is talking about what specifically, this is unfair. It is highly, highly unlikely that the same people who keep quiet about their political choices are the same ones making the other posts with TMI. You as referring to separate and unrelated people.
 
Calling the Electoral College votes “popular votes” does not make it so. It seems you have a penchant for redefining terms to suit your narrative, such as you have done with “true liberal.” Nobody is falling for it.
Except that it is a popular vote in each state. It really is. Everyone who is an eligible voter gets to vote in their state. That’s a popular vote.
 
Can you cite any authority that says this is what a “popular vote” means? Or are you saying this on your own authority? As I said, no one is falling for your personal redefinition of terms. Here is an authoritative reference that disagrees with your definition.
 
Of course, most of the time, that is what everyone on this board does.

People say “I’ve noticed most Trump supporters do xxx” or “I find find it odd that most Clinton apologists also say xxx.”

That’s how the board works. That doesn’t change the fact that it seems like the most the most strident Trump critics who post incessantly about the man usually refuse to reveal who they voted for. To me that is disingenuous and cowardly, when trying to actually debate anything.
 
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Can you cite any authority that says this is what a “popular vote” means? Or are you saying this on your own authority? As I said, no one is falling for your personal redefinition of terms. Here is an authoritative reference that disagrees with your definition.
Are you saying that each state does not have a popular vote? What evidence do you have that a particular state did not hold a popular vote in 2016?
You “definition “ is talking about a national plebiscite. You will have to prove that a particular state did not hold a popular vote.
If the definition of popular vote means only nationwide, that means no senator is elected by popular vote, no representative is, or governor.
 
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JonNC, I can’t remember the specifics and I’m too lazy to look them up right now, but you know that all the states do Electoral College differently, right?

LeafByNiggle, you know that, right?

i know that in most states, the Electoral College is required to vote according to the Popular Vote, so in states like mine (Illinois), Cook Country (Chicago) brought in millions of votes for Secy. of State Clinton, and even though almost every other county in Illinois voted for Donald Trump, the Electors voted for Secy of State Clinton.

There are some states in which the Electors are NOT bound to vote for the candidate selected by their state’s popular vote and they can vote for the candidate that THEY want. I think ??? that this is what happened when Ross Perot ran for President–in some states, the Electoral College voted for him instead of voting for the candidate who received the most votes by the state’s population, and this affected the Presidential election.

I may be messing this all up, but what I’m saying is that there are states which were not bound to elect Donald Trump–the Electors could have voted for Secy. of State Clinton, even if the majority of their population voted for Donald trump.

Also, I know that the States retain the power to select their Electoral College by whatever method they prefer.

The Electoral College is one of the reasons that the United States is a United States–it was a compromise that convinced the States, which at that time considered themselves separate nations–that they would still retain their autonomy from the Federal Government. It is a marvel that all of our States have held together for almost 250 years now, considering the differences between States–Montana is so different than Massachusetts!

I am convinced that if the Electoral College was eliminated, there would be a split in the Union.

There already is a split in the Union, a bad split, and it’s not likely that the people in States that voted primarily for Pres. Trump and his ideology are ever going to see eye-to-eye with people in States that voted primarily for Secy. of State Clinton.

Even here in Illinois, there is great division between those of us who support the President and those who wish they could wish him into the cornfield, and in many workplaces and other settings where people are mixed together, everyone stays quiet about politics because of that sharp difference in ideologies–none of us want to be disciplined or fired.

In my opinion, this “quietness” contributes to hostilities and fuels the conflict rather than easing it. It’s better to talk it out than hold it in.

And of course, we see the same thing here on CAF. There is no unity when it comes to American politics, and many people bow out of these threads when they become too 'warm." It’s too bad. We won’t be able to get together and be friends if we walk away from each other.

But anyway, I know that the Electoral College is not as bad as everyone thinks because of the freedom that States have to use it according to their preference.
 
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JonNC, I can’t remember the specifics and I’m too lazy to look them up right now, but you know that all the states do Electoral College differently, right?

LeafByNiggle, you know that, right?

i know that in most states, the Electoral College is required to vote according to the Popular Vote,
There are two states, IIRC, that award electors proportionally. Maine is one.

I appreciate greatly your excellent post. What I object to is the false narrative that the electoral college is undemocratic, or unfair. It is neither. It reflects accurately the federation of sovereign states that the United States is supposed to be.
It provides every state with a voice in the determination of the president, the chief executive of the general government which the states created and can, if they choose, abolish.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
Can you cite any authority that says this is what a “popular vote” means? Or are you saying this on your own authority? As I said, no one is falling for your personal redefinition of terms. Here is an authoritative reference that disagrees with your definition.
Are you saying that each state does not have a popular vote?
Each state had a popular vote to elect their governor, senators, and their Presidential Electors. But they did not have a popular vote to elect the President. Read the reference I cited from dictionary.com and then tell me why they are wrong when they say:
dictionary dot com:
the vote for a U.S. presidential candidate made by the qualified voters, as opposed to that made by the electoral college.
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JonNC:
You “definition “ is talking about a national plebiscite.
It was not my definition. It was dictionary.com’s definition, and it was of the term “popular vote.” The fact is not changed by the introduction of a synonym.
 
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Each state had a popular vote to elect their governor, senators, and their Presidential Electors. But they did not have a popular vote to elect the President.
Yes they did. I went to the polls here in N.C. and participated in a popular vote to choose our electors. That was a popular vote for the presidential election. Each state popularly chooses its representatives to the EC. That is how we choose a president. That is how a representative republic works.
Is it a national plebiscite? No, nor should it be, but it is by popular vote in each state.
 
JonNC, I can’t remember the specifics and I’m too lazy to look them up right now, but you know that all the states do Electoral College differently, right?

LeafByNiggle, you know that, right?

i know that in most states, the Electoral College is required to vote according to the Popular Vote, so in states like mine (Illinois), Cook Country (Chicago) brought in millions of votes for Secy. of State Clinton, and even though almost every other county in Illinois voted for Donald Trump, the Electors voted for Secy of State Clinton.
The President does not represent counties. He represents people. So adding up counties with vastly different numbers of people in them and implying they should all be “equal” in an election is misleading. The only thing counties are equal in (approximately) is square miles. But the last I heard, Presidents represent people, not square miles.

As I said in my previous post, I am not claiming the Electoral College is unfair. I am just objecting to the intellectual laziness of calling it a popular vote.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
Each state had a popular vote to elect their governor, senators, and their Presidential Electors. But they did not have a popular vote to elect the President.
Yes they did. I went to the polls here in N.C. and participated in a popular vote to choose our electors. That was a popular vote for the presidential election. Each state popularly chooses its representatives to the EC. That is how we choose a president. That is how a representative republic works.
Is it a national plebiscite? No, nor should it be, but it is by popular vote in each state.
And how do you discount the definition I cited in dictionary.com? Or can you cite another on-line dictionary that says the Electoral College is a popular vote for President?
 
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JonNC:
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LeafByNiggle:
Each state had a popular vote to elect their governor, senators, and their Presidential Electors. But they did not have a popular vote to elect the President.
Yes they did. I went to the polls here in N.C. and participated in a popular vote to choose our electors. That was a popular vote for the presidential election. Each state popularly chooses its representatives to the EC. That is how we choose a president. That is how a representative republic works.
Is it a national plebiscite? No, nor should it be, but it is by popular vote in each state.
And how do you discount the definition I cited in dictionary.com? Or can you cite another on-line dictionary that says the Electoral College is a popular vote for President?
How are electors chosen? They are chosen by popular vote. Again, show me a state that doesn’t use a popular vote for the election of the president through the EC.

In a discussion of the EC in the article posted, it says:
Note that the 12th Amendment, the expansion of voting rights, and the use of the popular vote in the States as the vehicle for selecting electors has substantially changed the process.
It is, so n each state, a popular vote.

 
How are electors chosen? They are chosen by popular vote.
Yes. Electors are chosen by popular vote. Senators are chosen by popular vote. Governors are chosen by popular vote. The President is chosen by Electors. Nowhere in any reference I have seen of yours does it say the President is chosen by popular vote. You are making an argument that no authority is making. And I see you still have not addressed why you think dictionary.com is wrong.
 
Being a “tad” hysterical, but not over the Wall - I save it for abortion/Planned Parenthood - why not get rid of ICE, border patrol, courts and the billions of dollars that illegal immigration/criminal enterprise/murders etc. cost us every minute!? We can rely on the drones and sensors - hurray for the IT technology - they can zero right in on the targets! On top of the ground, under, in the air and the sea. That is what the party of resist and obstruct wants above everything else. A Christian approach is to keep the misled, uninformed, and those that want to hit the lottery from being led to a harmful, mortal end, is to warn them against invading. The Wall plus the IT tech and agents, will be the deterrent. The cut off of money and re-legislation of immigration law will solve this unnecessary problem. Those money/power/criminal brokers that are funding humans to invade the United States will lose their “weapons”.
 
Yes. Electors are chosen by popular vote. Senators are chosen by popular vote. Governors are chosen by popular vote. The President is chosen by Electors.
Yes, therefore there is a popular vote in each state for the electors from that state. Each state holds a popular vote for this process.
You are making a false dichotomy here, as if the popular vote in no way relates to the presidential election.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
Yes. Electors are chosen by popular vote. Senators are chosen by popular vote. Governors are chosen by popular vote. The President is chosen by Electors.
Yes, therefore there is a popular vote in each state for the electors from that state. Each state holds a popular vote for this process.
You are making a false dichotomy here, as if the popular vote in no way relates to the presidential election.
And you are making a false equivalence, as if the popular vote for Electors is equivalent to a popular vote for a President. Are you ever going to address the question I keep asking you about why dictionary.com is wrong? (Last chance now…)
 
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