hmmmm. that makes me think of a verse…
Well, this part and parcel view from an institutional even work related salvation/ walk.
… or as the Bible says:
All we need is perseverance then?
John was talking about the antichrists coming at them…but ‘his children’ have the anointing that comes from the holy ones [and knowledge].
it’s not either/or but both. Paul understood this as well in 1 Cor 13:
I can agree with this actually, from the Catholic perspective where faith is defined as intellectual assent, in line with 1 Cor 13 noted above and consistent with even demons believing. That doesn’t imply trust, however, which we recognize as the chief aspect of the virtue of hope. Apparently you define a “saving faith” as one that includes trust while some other Protestants define it as also inherently including the grace to produce works. I recognize faith has the means to all of the above, but not the equivalent of it, which I could’ve made clear. Faith does not of necessity lead to hope or trust unless the knowledge which is the object of faith is embraced in humility, recognizing oneself as in need of God and the promises that faith entails. This is the act of conversion. And this still leads to nothing of value unless love is the ultimate product, and love acts or works for the good of others by its nature. So all three are necessary for salvation.
It also rejects them for their “lawlessness”.
The righteousness is not his own-that was the problem with the Old Covenant because that attempted obedience was based on man’s “righteousness”, being under the law, not on “the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.” This righteousness is real, the righteousness that man was made for (he was never created to sin after all), but a righteousness that can come only as man is united with God. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.” Jer 31
I haven’t objected to anything. Catholics don’t claim to have 100% assurance, remember?
So you reject the idea of faith necessarily producing or being accompanied by obedience and works as some Protestants believe? I reject that idea as well if, as I should here, I’m being theologically technical, separating what faith can and should lead to from what it doesn’t necessarily lead to. But at the end of the day all this means is that faith, alone, doesn’t justify; it doesn’t make us just IOW, on its own. Rather it’s the first step in that equation.
Yes, it is either/or. We were not saved because we loved God, but because He loved us. He saved us while we were still dead in trespasses.
I have not been saved because I was something, but because I was nothing.
The cross of Christ and faith are necessary for salvation. He has saved us by grace, through faith, and without works (Eph. 2:8–9). Whatever we do that counts as a good work is a product (“fruit”) of our salvation, rather than the cause thereof.
Quoted out of context. Paul is not discussing justification/salvation, but is combating legalism. Those who seek to be justified through the Law have been severed from grace, and from Christ Himself.
The expression “in Christ Jesus” shows that he is referring to already saved people. We are not in Him unless we have been saved by Him. The only thing that counts in our new life in and with Him is faith working through love. Circumcision, and the Law in general, belongs to our former life. We have died to the Law in order to live for God (Gal. 2:19, cf. Rom. 7:6).
Not sure. Again reminds me of how today’s laws determine when life begins, by its value. Indeed they recognize the biological life in the womb, but not as human, yet ( it must do something first…be born…breathe air…be loved first).
I am just a nobody who wants to tell anybody about a Somebody who loves everybody…or the song goes something like that
what happens when it stops breathing?, when it stops doing what God called it to do? It dies.
Well we weren’t exactly nothing. We were created in the image and likeness of God and God loved us but what we were, was sinners. We were born with original sin due to the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Then day to day we make choices, choose God or not choose God.I have not been saved because I was something, but because I was nothing.
mcq72:
Of course He loves us first. But the response is that we love back-or we’re not saved. We can’t even know we’re saved to begin with until He renders that judgement at the end of the day.
God wants you to be something. He makes you salvageable, worthy. You simply must want it.
Nope. As Matt 25 makes clear, the fruit is a criteria. No Christ, no human fruit, and yet we can still refuse to produce; we aren’t forced to work out our salvation with He who works in us.
And yet believers are constantly exhorted in the bible to make sure they continue to live by the Spirit, to remain faithful, remain in Christ, do good works, be holy, be vigilant, persevere, work out their salvation, make their calling and election sure, invest their talents lest they fail to inherit eternal life. They can be a branches grafted in and later cut back off, they can taste of the heavenly gift and later reject it, they can lose place in the kingdom. It’'s not over until the just Judge renders His verdict.
How about, “You’re nobody until somebody loves you”? Frank Sinatra I think.
Well, it is Love that holds all things together, literally.
Ok, so we should kill anyone who exists in an unloving environment?
Yes but the breathing doesnt make me human. I was human first. I then breathe because I am human. The breathing becomes inherent. I can aid it yes, by exercise, sleep etc. I can even stop it momentarily but only by killing myself do i stop it.
Amen.
Amen…but again i am born then breathe, i do not breathe to be born.
Is that kind of like delayed birth, that in this life we never come out of the womb, and only in heaven we pass from death unto life, are saved?
Well do those deserving hell have no value then? What’s the difference between them and the justified one except that the justified have been changed-that real value is now realized due to the life of God now residing in them? And this is consistent with Scripture’s insistence that sinners do not enter heaven. It’s not a “pretend” righteousness we’re given; it’s a real one. And that righteousness or justice is expected to be maintained, nurtured, and grown.
yes, but it is God that makes us human and in God that we live and move and have our being. (Acts 17)God has a perfect will for our lives and we choose whether or not we conform to this world or be transformed by the renewing of our minds, so that we know that perfect will. (Romans 12) We say yes or we say no.
I have to say that after 1338 posts and the Catholic response overwhelmingly explaining that we are not self justifying but it is God who gives us the ability, the power, the strength to walk with Him and obey His commands and that we do nothing of ourselves, in all charity, I really do not see how it can be considered self justification.