Plenty of verses that seem to be for it and plenty that seem otherwise. Exactly like for church infallibility ORAR (once right always right).
Well, predestination is. There is a biblical " elect". Those in heaven attest to such. As to names actually ever being taken out of book of life, again you have verses that seem to say aint gonna happen and verses that certainly seem to say it is a possibility.
As to Paul, not sure he ever states “law of love” as specifically as he states the term “law of faith”.
Now if we just do the same with His assurance that comes from His righteousness being infused in us and walking in it by faith.
Of course not eveyone who hears believes. But if we believe we most certainly apprehend and have evidence of assurance. We can certainly doubt our ability to be righteous, but not doubt His ability to keep us righteous. Otherwise that would be unbelief.
That is why it is best not to take a verse out of context of the whole Bible and read Scripture under the guidance of the Catholic church who alone was given the authority to choose the writings and interpret the writings.
This is why we do not follow Bible alone but also Tradition and the Magisterium. All work together, so that the powers of death shall not prevail against it (the Church) and that we can know that the church of the living God is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
The Calvinist theory of double predestination, where there are those chosen for heaven and those chosen for hell has been rejected by the Church.
Jesus in the Gospels is pretty clear that we are to love our neighbor. See Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5 - 7 and the parable of the sheeps and goats Matthew 25, we must take up our cross and follow Christ Matthew 16 , the parable of the prodigal son …
We do not have the assurance that we will always be saved and that even if we reject Christ and walk in sin we will still go to heaven but the assurance of faith that God’s love and His merciful desire for all men to be saved is there and all who accept Him and come to Him seeking His mercy and love will be saved.
No one knows what will happen tomorrow and what choices we will make. There are many who have once believed and then fell away and no longer believe. In order to be made right again with God they need to seek His mercy again.
Johan,
Believers can fall away from belief-that’s why we’re exhorted to remain faithful.
We can have a level of assurance, just not 100% which is Gods province, alone, to know.
Regardless of what Paul explicitly stated, he certainly understood the precedence that love holds in 1 Cor 13. And his Church has stated it as such, so why should there even be a question??? From someone who interprets Scripture privately centuries after the fact, a Book which was never intended to serve as some sort of exhaustive catechism anyway?
The “problem” is that only God knows with 100% certainty whose names are written there.
Do you regard your own views as wrong? Or even possibly wrong? If so why would you contest anyone else’s views in either instance?
Interesting you put conditions on top of knowing salvation ( your "if " post to Johan and me here, that only God knows) but place zero condition, 100 certainty on certain saved men interpreting, dictating faith and morals to all saved men.( even declaring who has made it into heaven, declaring sainthood).
Who has the question? Who has denied command to love? We are discussing whether love can trump faith. I merely suggested the specific biblical term of “law of faith” to support the foundation that faith is, from which all else flows, including satisfying, facilitating, the command to love.
We have 100% certainty that only God knows our eternal destinies with 100% certainty. He established a Church for that purpose, to know and hold the true faith. What is your qualification, a very valid question in light of disagreement on this very matter among Sola Scriptura adherents? You’ve already acknowledged that Scripture can easily be interpreted in varying, sometimes contradictory ways if I’ve understood correctly.
Ok, but you seemed to have an issue with the term “law of love”, which the Church has stated specifically. So I asked, why? Either way the Church teaches that faith, by gaining communion with God, facilitates the obtaining of love at that moment of justification. But we may or may not express that love, we may or may not follow God. We may, instead, still allow our pride and covetousness and selfishness to yet take over. We may indeed compromise and forfeit our justified state after “tasting of the heavenly gift”.
- the basis of all goodness, in fact.This should not be objectionable, love’s a good thing
Well, for God love is the basis for His goodness, for He is love, which He sheds abroad in our hearts, and that thru the grace and gift of faith. Our works in Christ flow from this, but faith alone and in Christ alone is the beginning foundation for our Salvation, and I would say even the end.
You can rely on Catholics to be prone to “make” salvation difficult to attain. Heaven forbid that God has simply saved His elect. Yes, there are many “ifs”, but they all concern the two basic Christian commands stated in 1 John 3:23:
If we keep these commands we cannot only guess but know that we have eternal life. So please don’t tell me that we cannot know, because the Scriptures tell us the very opposite.
Well a book yes and not a catechism, for the book does not deny teachers and councils. But the catechism and the teacher and the council must be in accord to the book, and not the other way round.
Yes, the Church teaches "faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification."
Yes, faith is critical, but that doesn’t make it the sole requirement.
The quote on judgement is actually from John of the Cross, a 16th century believer. That’s a very concise and astute statement, quite profound in its understanding of the gospel while summing up Church teachings. He came to it the hard way you could say, by earnestly seeking God.
The reward thing is way overplayed by some in Protestantism, as a means to protect the novel faith alone “gospel”. If you read Augustine and understand Catholicism you wouldn’t hazard such a speculation. Paul says essentially the same thing in 1 Cor 13.
Well, but it is for initial justification…the sole, alone requirement, as noted in
I dont get the faith part here…that faith seems to be apart from justification.
Ok, but what judgement was he referring to?
Perhaps. I would just like to see it played in Catholic teaching, beyond the muddled and vague teaching of Purgatory. You underplay it perhaps but have not read any Catholic teaching on the differeing judgements. It is more than a reward thing. It is undertsanding the books and judgements found at least in Revelation and others.
Not sure. I mean for sure disobeying, doubting, is not out of love. Peter loved the Lord, had a righteous relationship with Jesus, believed Him, but, like Adam, sinned, fell.
Seems to fit the solas.
Here comes the possible “Judaizing”. The word merit vs gratuitous, unmerited initial justification.
It is your blanket statements about Catholics…just address the IF’s Johan. ‘Know’ is ‘confidence’, like ‘I have confidence that I will pass this test.’
Once restored to the state of justice that man lost at the Fall, salvation is worked out as we, by our choices, how we live, move nearer or farther from God.
We aren’t regenerated first; we’re called, drawn, never overridden. Faith is a gift that we can accept and exercise-or not.
What’s classically known as the “particular judgement”, rendered at the moment of death.