Sola Scriptura contradicts Inspiration of the apostles?

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Gaelic_Bard said:
The problem with an appeal to Acts 15, po, is that it ignores the fact that the abrogation of the Mosaic Covenant was made manifest to the church in this period by divine revelation.
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But, this undercuts the claim to Paul’s inspiration, since he it was who could not decide and appealed to the Church in Jerusalem. PAUL!

Well, we have no less an authority that Jesus in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18 “seeming” to give major authority to His Church, which is His Body on earth - according to that same Paul! (1 Corinthians 12:27) And, I note that it was Paul who sought that Church out.

No bible at that time.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
The problem with an appeal to Acts 15, po, is that it ignores the fact that the abrogation of the Mosaic Covenant was made manifest to the church in this period by divine revelation. That is something that is not present in post-apostolic Christianity, as even your own church body admits. There is no new revelation. The church fathers, the councils, etc., cannot theologically be compared to the council of Acts 15. as none of them received revelation.
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You don’t think Scriptures are Divine Revelation? :confused:
 
po18guy said:
But, this undercuts the claim to Paul’s inspiration, since he it was who could not decide and appealed to the Church in Jerusalem. PAUL!
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Could you clarify, po? What do you mean he could not decide?
Well, we have no less an authority that Jesus in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18 “seeming” to give major authority to His Church, which is His Body on earth - according to that same Paul! (1 Corinthians 12:27) And, I note that it was Paul who sought that Church out.
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No bible at that time.
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Where we disagree here, po, is that the authority of the church in Acts 15 in abrogating the Mosaic Law is based on revelation to them. The church did not arbitrarily do this of its own accord. Due to the fact that revelation was given to them, they are executing the will of the Spirit. The post-apostolic church is not receiving this new public revelation. The faith has been delivered to the saints, it is not beING delivered. Therefore, the authority of the post-apostolic council is not the same inspired body.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Could you clarify, po? What do you mean he could not decide?

Where we disagree here, po, is that the authority of the church in Acts 15 in abrogating the Mosaic Law is based on revelation to them. **The church did not arbitrarily do this of its own accord. Due to the fact that revelation was given to them, they are executing the will of the Spirit. **The post-apostolic church is not receiving this new public revelation. The faith has been delivered to the saints, it is not beING delivered. Therefore, the authority of the post-apostolic council is not the same inspired body.
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So in other words, the first 7 ecumenical councils which made official many core doctrines…were not inspired by God?

Where and when does God state it would cease with the 12?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
What do you mean, Isaiah?
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Well, the New Testament is Divinely Inspired. The only possible way for the Church to identify what is and isn’t Scriptures is if they are Divinely Inspired and Divinely revealed by God to the Church. Just like Peter’s confession of Jesus being the Messiah, it was given to Peter by God. In the same way Scriptures were given to the Church by God. The Church has been the keeper and defender of Scriptures for centuries. But the fact is that they were not fully revealed and identified more than 200 years after the last Apostle died.

Since it is not possible for men to identify what is of God, therefore, it is but from God that we can identify what is of God. And God revealed that to the Church, not one person but to the body of Christ.

If we don’t consider Scriptures to be Divinely inspired, then How do we know they are from God. Further, how can we believe God’s revelation outside His Church?
 
Nicea325 said:
So in other words, the first 7 ecumenical councils which made official many core doctrines…were not inspired by God?

Where and when does God state it would cease with the 12?
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No…otherwise you don’t have a closed canon. Every conciliar statement made by the church or every papal encyclical would be considered Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church does not consider the decisions of the first 7 to be public revelation.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Well, the New Testament is Divinely Inspired. The only possible way for the Church to identify what is and isn’t Scriptures is if they are Divinely Inspired and Divinely revealed by God to the Church. Just like Peter’s confession of Jesus being the Messiah, it was given to Peter by God. In the same way Scriptures were given to the Church by God. The Church has been the keeper and defender of Scriptures for centuries. But the fact is that they were not fully revealed and identified more than 200 years after the last Apostle died.

Since it is not possible for men to identify what is of God, therefore, it is but from God that we can identify what is of God. And God revealed that to the Church, not one person but to the body of Christ.

If we don’t consider Scriptures to be Divinely inspired, then How do we know they are from God. Further, how can we believe God’s revelation outside His Church?
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Divinely revealed? Well, that the church received the Scriptures correctly is certainly within God’s providential plan of history. Since God is the author of the Scriptures, it was His intention that His sheep hear His voice. That isn’t anything I have a problem with. However, that would still not be public revelation. The Scriptures themselves are the revelation.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
No…otherwise you don’t have a closed canon. Every conciliar statement made by the church or every papal encyclical would be considered Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church does not consider the decisions of the first 7 to be public revelation.
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Which you failed to answer:

If canon is not dogma and not even mentioned implicitly/explicitly in Scripture,then why do Protestants adhere to a 27 NT canon?

Remember what youy said? Things which are not mentioned in Scripture is what Protestants question the CC?

So the councils were guided by the Holy Spirit-yes or no?

No, but they were infallible decisions or else every doctrine is in question.
 
Nicea325 said:
Remember what youy said? Things which are not mentioned in Scripture is what Protestants question the CC?
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Right.

And just recently it was mentioned that “there is no new revelation”.

This is something not mentioned in Scripture at all.
 
JonNC said:
The Catholic Catechism -

Just sayin. 🤷

Jon
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No disrespect to Catholics, but rather than telling me God said I can tell you to do anything because of two scriptures does not make me have more faith. It just seems like it is more about control than allowing love to guide. It’s almost like you are saying we have all the power, don’t think just do what we say. I don’t know much, but from what I have seen Jesus didn’t even declare to people who he was (Son of God Peter said) and washed the feet of others. Before I make a decision I want to see if the pieces match to what Jesus would expect of his church before I decide. Yes Catholics have a long history, but do they really fit the puzzle? Show me how they have fulfilled this role? Their is so much negativity online when I look things up? Not trying to cause problems just build my faith on something solid…
 
Life4ever said:
No disrespect to Catholics, but rather than telling me God said I can tell you to do anything because of two scriptures does not make me have more faith. It just seems like it is more about control than allowing love to guide. It’s almost like you are saying we have all the power, don’t think just do what we say. **I don’t know much, but from what I have seen Jesus didn’t even declare to people who he was **(Son of God Peter said) and washed the feet of others. Before I make a decision I want to see if the pieces match to what Jesus would expect of his church before I decide. Yes Catholics have a long history, but do they really fit the puzzle? Show me how they have fulfilled this role? Their is so much negativity online when I look things up? Not trying to cause problems just build my faith on something solid…
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Wrong! Jesus made it VERY clear who he is was…If he did not,then why would the Jewish leadership have such an issue with him? Why? Because of who HE claimed to be.
 
Life4ever said:
Not sure if this is applied correctly, but it seems pretty clear to me. Luke 10:25-27.
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Ah no! You need to read past verses 25-27. In reponse to a question from a Jewish legal expert about inherting internal life, Jesus illustrates the superiority of love over legalism through the story of the good Samaritan.
 
Life4ever said:
Not sure if this is applied correctly, but it seems pretty clear to me. Luke 10:25-27.
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The Bible is meant to be read as a whole.

What do you think it means to love God?

Read in John 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

Then again in John 14:23 Jesus answered him, “Those who love me will keep my word, and my Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; and the word that you hear is not mine, but is from the Father who sent me."

Then again here:

Jesus the True Vine

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinegrower. 2 He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit. 3 You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me as I abide in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Whoever does not abide in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; abide in my love. 10** If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.** 11 I have said these things to you so that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be complete.

12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 I do not call you servants any longer, because the servant does not know what the master is doing; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father. 16 You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name. 17 I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.

Now we have a much better picture of what it means to love God.

Doesn’t it makes a difference when reading through the big picture?
 
Tomster said:
Thanks GB. :okpeople: “Tradition trumps Sola Scriptura!” - GB
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This is not what the king of the congregation (Jesus) stated, in Mark 7:13, how tradition makes the word of God void. The example was about the Love and respect we show for our parents, but the principle is that nothing oversteps the word of GOD not even tradition.
 
po18guy said:
Once again, the OP: How is this not destroyed by Acts 15? The Church overthrew 1,250 years of scripture dating back to God’s covenant with Abraham! In deciding against circumcision, the Church used that “whatever” binding authority that Christ gave her in Matthew 18:18. As a matter of fact, it was the Church’s authority that lead to the various writings being considered scripture in the first place. Those writings were not considered sacred when they were written - they were originally just letters, exhortations and corrections, and little more. Any doctrine they noted had already been handed on orally by the Church before being reduced to writing. Note: Reduced to writing.
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Becarefull with this one statement, that you do not sin against the Spirit of God…The Hebrew Scriptures, which Jesus quoted from was definitely inspired of God. How would Moses know about how the earth was created? God inspired men to remember and record events, not the Church. So the only credit that should be given is that you put a cover, outline, etc. Do you truly believe they are inspired or holy if you believe they were not sacred until the church stated. Jesus and his disciples called the Hebrew scriptures the holy scrolls.
 
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