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Nicea325
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Exactly! The Bible is A source,not THE source of TRUTH.
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Nicea325
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Only through our cooperation with God,salvation is not a guarantee.
Come again? Precisely why I reject the results of Protestanism. It is always an either/or dichotomy.
Exactly! It is about Jesus,not a book,which does not teach that the written words alone are sufficient for salvation as so many truly believe.Jesus saves,not written words.One cannot read their way into Heaven.
I am aware Jesus died for us and Catholics knew about it long before any Protestant was born. Nonetheless,**Sola Scriptura **is the issue here,not Jesus’ dying for us.
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Dokimas
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Jesus (the Whole GodHead) is the sola reason for sola scriptura so He is the issue, IMO.
BTW, nice to see you Nicea.
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Richard_Kastner
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If it’s so clear to you why don’t you let me in on it? In post #156 You said “See what else the Scriptures say are required for our salvation:” This is NOT the same as the scriptures explicitly telling us that faith in the sacrifice of Jesus is not enough to justify us.
Are you seriously saying that we should not inquire what is needed for our salvation?
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Nicea325
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Hey Doki…how is life treating you? Hopefully good.Jesus (the Whole GodHead) is the sola reason for sola scriptura so He is the issue, IMO.
BTW, nice to see you Nicea.
God Bless
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PRmerger
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Believe me, I am *trying *very hard to give you the reason for the hope that is in me, with gentleness and reverence.
Exactly.
No. I’m just saying that to ask what’s sufficient is to ask your wife what’s the minimal amount of contact you need to give her to still be in “good standing”. Not a very good indicator of a loving covenantal relationship, is it.
But, of course you should continue to seek the kingdom, Richard! Kudos to you for being here!
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Dokimas
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Ps 118:24 This is the day the LORD has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it.
And God richly bless you, my friend.
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PRmerger
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Is love of God required to justify us, Richard?
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Pitcharan
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It was done to set an example for others to follow. It is a well known fact that acts speak louder than words and the greatest Teacher too used this method.
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Richard_Kastner
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Jn.3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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PRmerger
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Yes, God loves us.
But you’ve said nothing about our having to love God as a requirement for our justification. You’ve only mentioned belief or faith in Christ’s atoning death on the cross.
Faith is not sufficient, it seems.
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Richard_Kastner
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It shouldn’t be that hard PR. You saidBelieve me, I am *trying *very hard to give you the reason for the hope that is in me, with gentleness and reverence.
If the scriptures clearly say that faith in Jesus is not enough, you should be able to provide those scriptures. Right? Where are they? I posted this
The “what else” that you talk about here turns out to be a number of scriptures that are talking about the same thing, that is faith in the sacrifice of Christ. Also in the above quote I point out that you telling us all the other things that you think we need for salvation, which turned out to be talking of the same thing, is not the same as “explicitly telling us that faith in the sacrifice of Jesus is not enough to justify us.” To which you reply
I can only take this to mean that you now see that faith in the sacrifice of Jesus is all that is required for our justification before a holy God. Would that be right?
Well first of all, we are not talking about your relationship with your spouse. We are talking about your relationship with your God. Second, and I explained this to you before. I am not asking what “the minimum daily requirement” is, your words. What I am asking is. If faith in Jesus is not enough as you say the scriptures clearly say, yet are unable to provide those scriptures, what is enough, not “the minimum daily requirement”, but what must we do in orde to be saved. Hint: It’s in the bible Matt.19 & Mark 10
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PRmerger
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I have provided them ad nauseum, Richard. See why this is so hard?
Not to mention that Catholics believe that LOVE of God is a must.
You have not mentioned that in your posts, peculiarly, for I am certain that your pastor preaches that you have to love God. Faith is not enough.
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Richard_Kastner
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This verse shows us that faith is what justifies us, but faith and love go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Now don’t give me that the demons also believe. We’re talking about faith that leads to salvation.Yes, God loves us.
But you’ve said nothing about our having to love God as a requirement for our justification. You’ve only mentioned belief or faith in Christ’s atoning death on the cross.
Faith is not sufficient, it seems.
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PRmerger
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Richard, it sounds like you’re saying that love has nothing to do with it.
Oh, but we are talking about one and the same thing. The Catholic Church teaches that our relationship with God is a Love Relationship mirrored by the relationship of husband and wife.
Jesus is my Beloved. We are fully united in the One Flesh Union of the Eucharist.
The entire Scriptures are a love letter from God; wedding and marriage imagery is just all over the Bible.
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PRmerger
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Richard_Kastner
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No, I am saying that we are justified by faith. Love of coarse is an essential part of that faithRichard, it sounds like you’re saying that love has nothing to do with it.
No we are not talking about one and the same thing. You cannot attain to eternal life through your relationship with your spouse.
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PRmerger
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Justified by faith, yes. Faith alone? No.
Our relationship with God is covenantal. It is spousal. God wants to marry us.
Our relationship with our spouse, in that it mirrors our relationship with our Beloved, can indeed help us attain eternal life.
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look3467
Guest
That authority has always been for me the Holy Spirit.
You see, Jesus so stated: Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So, we don’t have Jesus physically as the Apostles did, we do have the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus who will guide, teach us and bring us to remembrances of the things we have read out of His word about things which Jesus has said.
What in effect, what this new understanding that I now have, it has opened up my view to the whole of humanity as a whole.
There is neither Catholic. Protestant, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Satanist and unbeliever that God has not incorporated into His saving grace.
What all that means is the the blood of Jesus covers them all, had they only have knowledge of and accept Jesus as their Savior, they would enjoy the benefits of His Kingdom early rather than later, like at the end of physical life.
What does this view of mine do for me?
It tells me that the love of God is greater than any sin/sins imaginable that God cannot forgive.
When Jesus consummates the Ten Commandments into two, it makes every person my brother or sister regardless.
When Jesus says,“love your enemies”, is it not that Jesus also loved them?
Did Jesus not say that to love those who dis-spitefully use you, because He also did?
The enemy is our extreme opponent, of which there may be gray areas of degrees.
Perhaps some may be of a different religious belief that would use that as a tool to hate us, or use their beliefs to reject us as neighbors of which Christ also died for.
So, I hope that you may get an in site into my views, as I believe the Holy Spirit, through searching, studying and prayer, has looked into my hearts desire to become more understanding of God’s works, has given me my present understanding, and not some church or tradition.
I have no church, I belong to no church, but I am the church of which Jesus spoke, of this type of faith,( upon this rock)I will build my church, paraphrased : Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The rock is Jesus!
Comemtary by VWS , Vincents Word studies
The reference of πέτρα to Christ is forced and unnatural. The obvious reference of the word is to Peter. The emphatic this naturally refers to the nearest antecedent; and besides, the metaphor is thus weakened, since Christ appears here, not as the foundation, but as the architect: “On this rock will I build.” Again, Christ is the great foundation, the “chief corner-stone,” but the New Testament writers recognize no impropriety in applying to the members of Christ’s church certain terms which are applied to him. For instance, Peter himself (1Pe_2:4), calls Christ a living stone, and, in 1Pe_2:5, addresses the church as living stones. In Rev_21:14, the names of the twelve apostles appear in the twelve foundation-stones of the heavenly city; and in Eph_2:20, it is said, “Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets (i.e., laid by the apostles and prophets), Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone.”
Equally untenable is the explanation which refers πέτρα to Simon’s confession. Both the play upon the words and the natural reading of the passage are against it, and besides, it does not conform to the fact, since the church is built, not on confessions, but on confessors - living men.
And there…is where I am.
Blessings, AJ
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PRmerger
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Amen! That’s very Catholic of you to say that, 3467.
However, what does that look like? How does that work for you?
Sadly, you don’t. :sad_yes:
Catholics do.
Again, how does this work? If 2 Christians, each prayerfully considering the promptings of the HS, come to two contradictory doctrines, how do we know which one is actually being guided by the HS?
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