Sola Scriptura questions

[benedictus2]

Of course not!

The words were conjured up in defense of the established view.

But, leaving those words out, one can find to be led to salvation via the pages of the bible.

True, true. For through it, if one is intellectually honest enough, one is led to Christ’s Church, the means by which He bestows the graces that His life, death and resurrection has made available for us.

If that is the case, then, the bible is sufficient to lead anyone to the Lord.

Blessings, AJ

Of course it is, for through it one is led to the Church that He founded. There is found the institution of the sacraments, the establishment of His heirarchical Church, the institution of the Eucharist, etc, etc.

Once led to the Church, then it becomes even more exciting as the very Scripture that led one to Christ is explained in the light of Apostolic Tradition.

However, a certain blindness and pride can prevent one from accepting this. Humility is oh so necessary.

 

[look3467]

I am not making an argument against the Catholic Church, it’s beliefs or it’s practices.
What I am simply stating is that the bible has within it’s pages sufficient evidence that if taken in faith will lead any person to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Also that the Holy Spirit is not limited to only the Catholic Church, but to any soul willing to listen to Him via whatever method the Holy Spirit uses to bring, lead us to Christ.

Some come to Christ via a near death experience, others financial woes, cancer, all sorts of personal problems.

You see, this world is not kind to us in any way shape or form.

The design was such as to cause us to look up for our strenght which lies not within our selves but in Him who gave us life in the flesh, and Him who will also rescue us from it all with life everlasting.

When we are born, we are born to die. So this world will throw anything and everything it can to hasten that end.

The only salvation we have, is God, who has taken steps to accomplish that for us by revealing to us the tree of life, by which anyone can reach and eat of it’s fruit and live.

The term sola escritura simple is in defense of protecting the contents as defined, interpreted by the church from any other source of interpretation.

I have no qualms with that since many religious beliefs have t heir’s as well.

I personally, ahere to non of them but simple to the words in the bible, yet treat all mankind as brothers and sisters, since my Lord died for them too.

Have a great Sunday and hope you got your spiritual food today at church, which ever that one may be.

Blessings, AJ

 

[guanophore]

The souls spirit must first be drawn by the Holy Spirit (called), convereting the souls spirit, then the works follow.

Latin (Roman) Catholics call this “prevenient” or drawing grace. However, the Apostles taught that everyone is drawn, but not all respond to the drawing by mixing their faith with His grace so that their souls are converted. Not all are saved, because not all choose to be.

Not a mature adult yet spiritually.

I agree, but what is the point at going to all the trouble of maturing? If one is already saved, that is a lot of extra effort for no reason.
look3467;7101776:

A child needs the guidance of it’s parents such and until the child has grown towards a more mature state, by which then the young adult has to learn it’s own way into the word of God.

What for? the goal is to be saved. The soul is saved.

The adult no longer needs the guidance of the parents as a child, but rather have instilled within the remembrances of those guidelines as thier own as their moral code.

There is really no need of a moral code, either, since being immoral cannot interfere with one’s salvation.

If you understood the works of God, yes, salvation is a done deal. “It is finished”.

The sacrifce of Jesus is completed, and He has purchased our redemption. But the Apostles taught that salvation is completed in this life in some ways (we are born again from above in baptism), some that are still being worked out, and some that don’t occur until this life is over. What the Reformers did was cut the sanctification and glorification away from salvation, and limit salvation to justification, or getting into right relationship with God. This is a significant departure from what the Apostles believed.

 Now working (exercising) the gift that is in us towards conforming the body be governed not by the physical desire (which is of old) but by the spiritual desire. (which is the new).

For what purpose? I mean, if being immoral and living in the flesh does not affect your salvation, why not eat, drink and be merry today?

Not to take glory away from God's works, Abraham is brought into the light so that we may understand who it is that is the granter of salvation.

Yes, and to show that faith that does not produce good works is not a saving faith, and to show that these works justify us as well as our faith, because they are both borne of Grace.

How much clear can that not be made, that the death of Jesus is the righteousness of God granted us, as a work of God and not mankind.

It is very Catholic of you to say this.

 So the old, which was death and condemnation was nailed to the cross, as dead.

Thereby, anyone believing in Jesus by faith is reckoned with Jesus as righteous,

I think the difference lies in what it means to “believe in Jesus”. For those who receive the Apostolic faith, this means that we follow His commandments, which are not burdensome.

 for sin has been freed from sin, as in the following verse:

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Now go figure, just what sin is it talking about?)

I imagine it is the sin that separates man from God.

Clue: Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The Apostle teaches that we should not serve sin, but he does not say it isn’t possible to serve sin. A Christian can fall from grace, and back into sin. Sin can enslave a person even after they have been born again,.

Sin has no grasp in derailing our salvation, for it is a work of God.

The nature of sin has not changed, Look. Sin has been separating man from God since the Garden of Eden. Jesus’ death on the cross did not change the nature of sin, and people still die in their sins, those who have been born again, and those that refuse to be born again.

Yes, salvation is a work of God, and in His sovereignty He has ordained that we exercise our will in making a choice “behold I set before you this day life and death…choose life”.

His grace does not preserve one from sin that chooses not to be preserved.

Sin does, if we let it, will destroy us, but not the souls’ spirit, for it belongs to God.

This is another Reformation teaching that represents a significant departure from the Apostolic faith. Jesus and the Apostles’ taught that every individual is a whole person, with body, soul, and spirit. There is not one part that belongs to God, and another that belongs to Satan.

Of course not!

The words were conjured up in defense of the established view.

Actually, they were conjured up with the conjured, innovative “view”. It is a tradition of men that was conjured 1500 years after the Apostles.

But, leaving those words out, one can find to be led to salvation via the pages of the bible.

If that is the case, then, the bible is sufficient to lead anyone to the Lord.

Blessings, AJ

And indeed, this is what the Apostles’ taught. However, they also taught that coming to Christ is only the beginning, and that becoming His disciples is the main focus of this life.

 

[guanophore]

So…you believe that those things the love of God can not overcome?

No, but it is a mistake to think that the Love of God equates to the salvation of God. God loves every soul He creates. He does not save them all.

Just exactly what is it that you would want God to place limits on?

God has already placed the boundaries for us. It is our responsibility to remain within the fold with which He has encircled His flock. We do not have the freedom to change the doctrines of the faith that were “once for all committed to the saints”. This was the error of the Reformers. They rightly recognized that the Catholic leaders were corrupt. They wrongly decided that the doctrine needed as much reform as the men. Right doctrine is not defined by those who depart from it.

Unless the Holy Spirit convicts, one is left to one’s own desires.

The HS convicts all. Some refuse to listen, because their hearts are hardened. or seared, as with a hot iron. this is what sin does to people.

The Scriptures themselves point to Jesus period.

No, Look, they don’t. The Scriptures are quite clear that Jesus does not separate Himself from His One Body, the Church. All who are baptized into Him are baptized into His Church. What you seem to want to do is have a headless body, or a decaptitated body. This is not consistent with what the Apostles’ taught.

Nobody but you and God are responsible for your own soul.

Actually, Scripture refutes this idea also. Scripture is clear that the shepherds will give an account of the souls of the flock of which they are in charge. Peter was given the responsibility of feeding and caring for the sheep. He passed this responsibility on to his successor, and he to his up until the present day. The Successor of Peter is still responsible for all the souls of God’s flock. your rejection of his authority does not negate it. It only makes you unable to benefit from it.

 

[PRmerger]

How does this help us gain eternal life and where do we find this principle in the bible?

More, as promised:

"How might love be experienced so that it can fully realize its human and divine promise? Here we can find a first, important indication in the Song of Songs, an Old Testament book well known to the mystics. According to the interpretation generally held today, the poems contained in this book were originally love-songs, perhaps intended for a Jewish wedding feast and meant to exalt conjugal love. In this context it is highly instructive to note that in the course of the book two different Hebrew words are used to indicate “love”. First there is the word dodim, a plural form suggesting a love that is still insecure, indeterminate and searching. This comes to be replaced by the word ahabà, which the Greek version of the Old Testament translates with the similar-sounding agape, which, as we have seen, becomes the typical expression for the biblical notion of love. By contrast with an indeterminate, “searching” love, this word expresses the experience of a love which involves a real discovery of the other, moving beyond the selfish character that prevailed earlier. Love now becomes concern and care for the other. No longer is it self-seeking, a sinking in the intoxication of happiness; instead it seeks the good of the beloved: it becomes renunciation and it is ready, and even willing, for sacrifice.

It is part of love’s growth towards higher levels and inward purification that it now seeks to become definitive, and it does so in a twofold sense: both in the sense of exclusivity (this particular person alone) and in the sense of being “for ever”. Love embraces the whole of existence in each of its dimensions, including the dimension of time. It could hardly be otherwise, since its promise looks towards its definitive goal: love looks to the eternal. Love is indeed “ecstasy”, not in the sense of a moment of intoxication, but rather as a journey, an ongoing exodus out of the closed inward-looking self towards its liberation through self-giving, and thus towards authentic self-discovery and indeed the discovery of God:** “Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it” (Lk 17:33), as Jesus says throughout the Gospels (cf. Mt 10:39; 16:25; Mk 8:35; Lk 9:24; Jn 12:25).** In these words, Jesus portrays his own path, which leads through the Cross to the Resurrection: the path of the grain of wheat that falls to the ground and dies, and in this way bears much fruit. Starting from the depths of his own sacrifice and of the love that reaches fulfilment therein, he also portrays in these words the essence of love and indeed of human life itself."
from the magnificent encyclical Deus Caritas Est, Pope B16.

 

[look3467]

I agree, but what is the point at going to all the trouble of maturing? If one is already saved, that is a lot of extra effort for no reason.>>>guanophore

Let me ask you this question, what’s the point of maturing once a baby is born?

Likewise, once a babe in Christ is born, the work towards maturity begins, otherwise, one remains as like a child, imature and can and could be carried by every wind of doctrine.

 Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
             * A child needs the guidance of it's parents such and until the child has grown towards a more mature state, by which then the young adult has to learn it's own way into the word of God.*

What for? the goal is to be saved. The soul is saved.

The goal is to know you are saved, and from there one presses on towards a higher standard, that of the things of God.

 Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
             * The adult no longer needs the guidance of the parents as a child, but rather have instilled within the remembrances of those guidelines as thier own as their moral code.*

There is really no need of a moral code, either, since being immoral cannot interfere with one’s salvation.

What is one thing that mankind can not do but that God can? Save us?

Well, that He did as part of the work of God.

Having done that for us, we are predestined (saved) to be with Him for ever.

The question is, how many know that that is what Jesus came to do?

There lies the dilemma, the knowing from the unknowing which is why we are charged with spreading the Gospel.

Salvation is a done deal with Christ, it is finished, done,kaput!

Once we come to the saving knowledge of our Lord’s sacrifice, we and accept His offering for us, we are then, now born again, which is the birth of Christ as a child within our soul’s spirit.

That child, Jesus will grow us into mature spiritual individuals only if and when we allow Him, since the allowing is more of a desire to want, then to have to.

 Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
             *   If you understood the works of God, yes, salvation is a done deal.* "It is finished".

The sacrifce of Jesus is completed, and He has purchased our redemption. But the Apostles taught that salvation is completed in this life in some ways (we are born again from above in baptism), some that are still being worked out, and some that don’t occur until this life is over. What the Reformers did was cut the sanctification and glorification away from salvation, and limit salvation to justification, or getting into right relationship with God. This is a significant departure from what the Apostles believed.

The sacrifice of Jesus is completed, and He has purchased our redemption.

Stop there! That ends the work of Christ in the physical, “it is finished”.

What begins is our work in salvation to work it out. By that meaning that we have the power, the might and the will to bring our bodies into conformity, via the power of Jesus in us, to be over-comers.

Prior to that would be works in the flesh to achieve what has already been done by God for us, because it is His righteous works for ours.
Continued on next post-------------------------

 

[look3467]

Continuation from last post-----------------------

  Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
             * Now working (exercising) the gift that is in us towards conforming the body be governed not by the physical desire (which is of old) but by the spiritual desire. (which is the new).*

For what purpose? I mean, if being immoral and living in the flesh does not affect your salvation, why not eat, drink and be merry today?

If that is the case, then your good works would be subject to win your salvation.

But it so happens that your good works are as filthy rags and not worth the effort, no matter how hard we tried.

But Jesus’ righteous works are, and that is what He came to give us as a freebie, unearned, unmerited and something that if we should get wind off, would greatly appreciate God and worship Him freely, without any reservations willingly.

  Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
             * Not to take glory away from God's works, Abraham is brought into the light so that we may understand who it is that is the granter of salvation.*

Yes, and to show that faith that does not produce good works is not a saving faith, and to show that these works justify us as well as our faith, because they are both borne of Grace.

Abraham is a picture of Jesus. Jesus is offering in faith the Jewish nation(Issac) to God, or the first fruits as like Cain, but God refuses the offer,(as like He did Cain) and instead offers a Ram, (as like Abel did) and that was accepted.

Jesus in this case is the Ram offered by God in our place. (Issac)

What all that shows is that it is the faith of Jesus (God) born in Abraham which we are reckoned as being justified. By His faith (Jesus) are we justified)

We are justified by the faith of Jesus and not our own, but faith of our own in Jesus grants us His salvation of our souls.

So, after that should we continue in sin? Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

   Quote:
                                                                   Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
              * How much clear can that not be made, that the death of Jesus is the righteousness of God granted us, as a work of God and not mankind.*

It is very Catholic of you to say this.

It’s all there, right in the bible!

   Quote:
                                                                   Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
              *     So the old, which was death and condemnation was nailed to the cross, as dead.

Thereby, anyone believing in Jesus by faith is reckoned with Jesus as righteous,*

I think the difference lies in what it means to “believe in Jesus”. For those who receive the Apostolic faith, this means that we follow His commandments, which are not burdensome.

It’s a matter of choices. In your case as “For those who receive the Apostolic faith” and in mine, live just and rightly.

Continuation from last post----------------------------------

 

[look3467]

Continuation from last post--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* for sin has been freed from sin, as in the following verse:

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Now go figure, just what sin is it talking about?)*

I imagine it is the sin that separates man from God.

You said it correctly, but let me add that that separation was eternal separation which equates to eternal death, of which Jesus primary concern was to kill it at the cross for us.
That is what God’s work was, is and shall forever be.

    Quote:
                                                                    Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
               *   Clue: Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him*, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The Apostle teaches that we should not serve sin, but he does not say it isn’t possible to serve sin. A Christian can fall from grace, and back into sin. Sin can enslave a person even after they have been born again,.

Absolutely, that is why our own righteousness will not cut the mustard because we fall short at ever turn.

So if God saves us, then what is left for us to do?

Well, the bible states: Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Being born again does not exclude us from sins consequences, for we are still responsible for them, but what we are not responsible for is what God did for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* Sin has no grasp in derailing our salvation, for it is a work of God.*

The nature of sin has not changed, Look. Sin has been separating man from God since the Garden of Eden. Jesus’ death on the cross did not change the nature of sin, and people still die in their sins, those who have been born again, and those that refuse to be born again.

Yes, salvation is a work of God, and in His sovereignty He has ordained that we exercise our will in making a choice “behold I set before you this day life and death…choose life”.

His grace does not preserve one from sin that chooses not to be preserved.

True! But the separation (death) has! We in Christ are dead to that separation, but not to any sins we commit. For we are responsible for our own sins, that those two may be forgiven upon repentance. (changing of our minds towards spiritual things verses fleshly things.)

    Quote:
                                                                     Originally Posted by **look3467**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7101776#post7101776)                 
                *   Sin does, if we let it, will destroy us, but not the souls' spirit, for it belongs to God.*

This is another Reformation teaching that represents a significant departure from the Apostolic faith. Jesus and the Apostles’ taught that every individual is a whole person, with body, soul, and spirit. There is not one part that belongs to God, and another that belongs to Satan.

If God pays for something, it is all or nothing. The soul from eternal annihilation was redeemed at the cross for all souls.
Yes, body (Eve) soul (Adam, breath of God.) a marriage into a living soul.

If that soul gives itself to the world,(Satan) yes, it is not of God temporary. But at death opf the physical, guess who they are going to meet? Jesus, for Jesus (God) owns their soul purchased by the blood of Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* But, leaving those words out, one can find to be led to salvation via the pages of the bible.

If that is the case, then, the bible is sufficient to lead anyone to the Lord.

Blessings, AJ*

And indeed, this is what the Apostles’ taught. However, they also taught that coming to Christ is only the beginning, and that becoming His disciples is the main focus of this life.

“they also taught that coming to Christ is only the beginning”

is correct, first come to Christ, receive His salvation, and then begin to grow in it.

Blessings, AJ

 

[PRmerger]

Stop there! That ends the work of Christ in the physical, “it is finished”.

You can’t really mean this. If we are to “stop there”, and Christ’s atoning death on the Cross is “kaput”, then that’s it?

Nothing more?

Really?

Are you sure?

Then what of Muslims/Jews/ Atheists? Christ’s atoning death on the cross, once and for all, accomplished their salvation?

 

[PRmerger]

How does this help us gain eternal life and where do we find this principle in the bible?

Willed by God in the very act of creation,** (Gn. 1-2.)** marriage and the family are interiorly ordained to fulfillment in Christ **(Eph. 5.) **and have need of His graces in order to be healed from the wounds of sin and restored to their “beginning,” (Mt. 19:4.) that is, to full understanding and the full realization of God’s plan.
From Familiaris Consortio, Pope JPII

 

[look3467]

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* So…you believe that those things the love of God can not overcome?*

No, but it is a mistake to think that the Love of God equates to the salvation of God. God loves every soul He creates. He does not save them all.

Let me quote this one verse: Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Question to you is, who is it which was lost? Some, few, or all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* Just exactly what is it that you would want God to place limits on?*

God has already placed the boundaries for us. It is our responsibility to remain within the fold with which He has encircled His flock. We do not have the freedom to change the doctrines of the faith that were “once for all committed to the saints”. This was the error of the Reformers. They rightly recognized that the Catholic leaders were corrupt. They wrongly decided that the doctrine needed as much reform as the men. Right doctrine is not defined by those who depart from it.

In order: our responsibility, absolutely! You are your own and given unto God willingly so that God in you will empower you to overcome the things in the world.

“once for all committed to the saints”. Paul stated: 1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

That is what should be committed to us, to expound on it to the world in darkness.

Catholic leaders were corrupt… Yes, God divides when something becomes corrupt, like the tower of Babel?

Right doctrine is that Jesus Christ died to save your soul!

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* Unless the Holy Spirit convicts, one is left to one’s own desires.*

The HS convicts all. Some refuse to listen, because their hearts are hardened. or seared, as with a hot iron. this is what sin does to people.

True. But did you also know that God did the hardening of hearts to?

Exo 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh’s heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

We have the Gospel in abundance, on radio, TV and other sources. Should we harden our own hearts because of love for the world, then we deserve the consequences.

The church physical has a head, the Pope, the Pastor, the Elder etc.
The church spiritual also has a head, and that is Jesus Christ.

So, we are headless in the physical, but with Jesus as our head in the spiritual, we are whole as a church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* Nobody but you and God are responsible for your own soul.*

Actually, Scripture refutes this idea also. Scripture is clear that the shepherds will give an account of the souls of the flock of which they are in charge. Peter was given the responsibility of feeding and caring for the sheep. He passed this responsibility on to his successor, and he to his up until the present day. The Successor of Peter is still responsible for all the souls of God’s flock. your rejection of his authority does not negate it. It only makes you unable to benefit from it.

Can work be done in heaven? Or, can work only be done on earth?

So accounting then is work done in the flesh right?

But once the flesh dies, there is no further accounting, or work done.

We are accountable in the flesh for any work done, whether good or bad, so that is when payment is due.

The word says: Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Therefore at death sin is paid up.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Stop there! That ends the work of Christ in the physical, “it is finished”.

You can’t really mean this. If we are to “stop there”, and Christ’s atoning death on the Cross is “kaput”, then that’s it?

Nothing more?

Really?

Are you sure?

Then what of Muslims/Jews/ Atheists? Christ’s atoning death on the cross, once and for all, accomplished their salvation? *

In other words, the physical work of Christ was completed, done, finished at the cross.

The Holy Spirit in all of us is Jesus working daily as our High priest.

As for your last question, if God came to save “that” which was lost, then it is mankind as a whole that was lost, and as a whole, the lost were saved.

That includes all that you referred to: the only thing is if they only knew!

Blessings, AJ

 

[LutheranDK]

Assuming this is a genuine quesiton, and not just flaming…

In Sola Scriptura churches, how can the illiterate and mentally or physically disabled come to be incorporated into the Body of Christ?

That’s what pastors and theologians are for.
There’s a lot of misunderstandings of the Sola Scriptura-principle outthere, both genuine misunderstanding and “pretended” misunderstanding. Sola Scriptura has never meant “No other authority AT ALL” but “No other authority ABOVE OR EQUAL to Scripture”

If they can’t develop a personal relationship with Christ through reading the Bible, or they don’t understand the Bible how do they become Christian or grow in faith?
And what does a person do if he lacks confidence in his personal understanding of the Bible? If people tell him all he needs is the Bible, and he reads it but it makes no sense to him?

See above.

 

[PRmerger]

In other words, the physical work of Christ was completed, done, finished at the cross.

Yes! That’s what the Catholic church proclaims.

And this sacrifice is eternal, yes?

That includes all that you referred to: the only thing is if they only knew!
Blessings, AJ

Indeed.

 

[onenow1]

Well…interesting you should bring that up.

If He would have left the tree of life instead, would you still think that Adam and Eve would have been left to their own devices

God chased them out of these garden precisely because the tree of life was there He did not withold it.Genesis 3:22

Without knowledge of good and evil, how then, can one be convicted of anything?

They were given a direction[command].

In other words, they were deceived, not willfully, but by design.

Your quote encapsulates the fallacy of bible alone.

Also: This would not be a God of Love or Justice, but a God of deceit.

God did His works, finished them, and now it is up to us to accept His works as ours, and learn to conform our lives to His desires

If you mean accept His graces, and do His will. Indeed !

Haven’t tried pineapple pizza yet.

God Bless
onenow1:compcoff:

 

[look3467]

Yes! That’s what the Catholic church proclaims.

And this sacrifice is eternal, yes?

Indeed.

“Yes! That’s what the Catholic church proclaims.” We are in agreement!!

" And this sacrifice is eternal, yes?" Nothing short of absolute!

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

God chased them out of these garden precisely because the tree of life was there He did not withold it.Genesis 3:22>>>onenow1

Remember, it was not until after.

Quote:
Without knowledge of good and evil, how then, can one be convicted of anything?
They were given a direction[command].

Now here is something to think about.

Gaining knowledge of good and evil, is that something that is part of the creative process, or, is something one chose?

For example, how would Adam and Eve know what was good or what was evil, had they not eaten, as the story goes, of the fruit of the tree?

If, then it was part of the creative process that Adam and Eve know both good and evil, how then could they be blamed and cast out of the garden?

Or, was the casting out a metaphor for separation (death) due to becoming as like gods, as the serpent is quoted as saying?

If the tree of life would have also been accessible to them, then for what purpose would the tree of good and evil be?

You see where I’m going?

It had to be that we were created with separation due to us becoming like as gods, to rule our own desires, thereby necessitating the desire to reach for the other tree to become saved.

That is the picture that is painted in the whole of the bible.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

More, as promised:

"How might love be experienced so that it can fully realize its human and divine promise? Here we can find a first, important indication in the Song of Songs, an Old Testament book well known to the mystics. According to the interpretation generally held today, the poems contained in this book were originally love-songs, perhaps intended for a Jewish wedding feast and meant to exalt conjugal love. In this context it is highly instructive to note that in the course of the book two different Hebrew words are used to indicate “love”. First there is the word dodim, a plural form suggesting a love that is still insecure, indeterminate and searching. This comes to be replaced by the word ahabà, which the Greek version of the Old Testament translates with the similar-sounding agape, which, as we have seen, becomes the typical expression for the biblical notion of love. By contrast with an indeterminate, “searching” love, this word expresses the experience of a love which involves a real discovery of the other, moving beyond the selfish character that prevailed earlier. Love now becomes concern and care for the other. No longer is it self-seeking, a sinking in the intoxication of happiness; instead it seeks the good of the beloved: it becomes renunciation and it is ready, and even willing, for sacrifice.

It is part of love’s growth towards higher levels and inward purification that it now seeks to become definitive, and it does so in a twofold sense: both in the sense of exclusivity (this particular person alone) and in the sense of being “for ever”. Love embraces the whole of existence in each of its dimensions, including the dimension of time. It could hardly be otherwise, since its promise looks towards its definitive goal: love looks to the eternal. Love is indeed “ecstasy”, not in the sense of a moment of intoxication, but rather as a journey, an ongoing exodus out of the closed inward-looking self towards its liberation through self-giving, and thus towards authentic self-discovery and indeed the discovery of God:** “Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it” (Lk 17:33), as Jesus says throughout the Gospels (cf. Mt 10:39; 16:25; Mk 8:35; Lk 9:24; Jn 12:25).** In these words, Jesus portrays his own path, which leads through the Cross to the Resurrection: the path of the grain of wheat that falls to the ground and dies, and in this way bears much fruit. Starting from the depths of his own sacrifice and of the love that reaches fulfilment therein, he also portrays in these words the essence of love and indeed of human life itself."
from the magnificent encyclical Deus Caritas Est, Pope B16.

I like!

Blessings, AJ

 

[PRmerger]

I like!

Blessings, AJ

There’s more where that came from. See the source cited.

Here it is again, for your convenience: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

 

[guanophore]

Likewise, once a babe in Christ is born, the work towards maturity begins, otherwise, one remains as like a child, imature and can and could be carried by every wind of doctrine.

Who cares? If his salvation is already secure, he can be carried downstream and washed into the sea of false doctrine, and it will not matter, because his eternity is secured.

The goal is to know you are saved, and from there one presses on towards a higher standard, that of the things of God.

The Apostles taught that the goal of salvation is not reached in this life.

  Having done that for us, we are predestined (saved) to be with Him for ever.

I will agree that the saved are with Him forever. However, they do not achieve this goal during this life.

There lies the dilemma, the knowing from the unknowing which is why we are charged with spreading the Gospel.

So you don’t believe that God saves whoever He wants?

 Salvation is a done deal with Christ, it is finished, done,kaput!

Jesus paid the eternal price of our sins on the cross. But, if it were “finished” for us, He would not be instructing us to “take up your cross, and follow me”.

Once we come to the saving knowledge of our Lord’s sacrifice, we and accept His offering for us, we are then, now born again, which is the birth of Christ as a child within our soul’s spirit.

The Apostles taught that this happens in baptism.

That child, Jesus will grow us into mature spiritual individuals only if and when we allow Him, since the allowing is more of a desire to want, then to have to.

That is what I thought. So, a person can be as ungodly and immoral as they want, so long as they prayed that sinners prayer, and accepted Jesus in their heart as their own personal Lord and Savior. it is a done deal - kaput!

  What begins is our work in salvation to work it out. By that meaning that we have the power, the might and the will to bring our bodies into conformity, via the power of Jesus in us, to be over-comers.

I would agree, but according to your theology, there is really no reason to bother with this. I can live pretty much like I always did before I prayed that sinner’s prayer.
"guanophore:

I mean, if being immoral and living in the flesh does not affect your salvation, why not eat, drink and be merry today?

If that is the case, then your good works would be subject to win your salvation.

You will have to help me with this one, AJ, because I am lost. If living in the flesh affects my salvation then my good works purchase eternal life for me?

How did you get from

:“sin separates humans from God” to

“if you believe sin separates you from God then you must believe you can work your way into heaven”???

But it so happens that your good works are as filthy rags and not worth the effort, no matter how hard we tried.

It appears that you have no ability to distinguish between human effort, and Sacred Works (works of Righteousness done in grace by faith).

But that just brings us back to the original question. If all of our deeds are as fithly rags before God, then why bother putting any effort into becoming moral, mature, or trying to conform to the character of God?

So, after that should we continue in sin? Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

It’s all there, right in the bible!

I believe it is too, but I understand what I read differently than you. When I read it, I see that the nature of sin has not changed, and that sin still separates people from God.

It's a matter of choices. In your case as "For those who receive the Apostolic faith" and in mine, live just and rightly.

That is the Apostolic faith, AJ, that we are to do works that befit repentance, and that part of our salvation is to complete the deeds of righteousness that God has prepared before the foundation of the world, that we should walk in them.