Some Catholic bloggers are calling out other Catholics on their actions (or should I say faith)

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I heard about this when Father Z posted it (he covers everything, and he does it all so well:thumbsup:). I think the article is missing the point: Catholic bloggers don’t want to “purge” dissent, they want to correct it! I would love if every Catholic baptized into the Church with any such incompatible views as pro-abortion, pro-homosexuality, etc. would recant their anti-Catholic views and follow the Church. That would make my day.

Something to pray about, I think.:gopray:
 
Hmmm…or one wonders if the bloggers are like the first part of that gospel…Jesus told the story to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and dispised everyone else…🤷
First of all you cannot put “the bloggers” into one box, they are all different people and have different positions. If the blogger is preaching according to the magisterium they should be convinced of the own righteousness and if they live by their beliefs they will not dispise anyone.
 
Now here is a bishop (now Cardinal Designate) who is preaching according to the magisterium. Hopefully some of those Catholics who got it wrong in the last election will get it right in this one…

Link to article and video
This is the message of the church and that of 99% of the bishops. The 1% that may not give thease teachings are the ones bloggers want to jump on to true to make some point about the direction of the church to which they don’t agree. There is also a great patoral conmpnent to his words. Many time bloggers confuse the pastoral message by some bishops and priest with doctrine. It is possible alsway to recongize the sin, and minister to the sinner. It is always in ministing, that we turn people to God.
 
work in a parish that has a parish/pastoral council, liturgy committee etc.
The problem is that many think one opinion is as valid as the next. In a number of the areas of the Church, opinions and ‘wishes’ have a minimal role if they have one at all.
One opinion is just as valuable as another. The Second vatican Council specifically calls for these commissions and spells out the riole of the laity. The preist or bishop still have the last word, but they do listen.
Liturgy committees can only work if the participants are willing to learn what liturgy is, and what the Church expects. I think many of us have had enough of childish Masses, cheesy music and decorations. Dignity and reverence, whether you participate in an NO or an EF Mass are requirements. I don’t know how many times I’ve said that ‘cute’ is not a liturgical term, when responding to someone who can’t understand why Father has stopped gathering the children to the altar for the Our Father!
In my esperiance these members work to be faithful to the liturgy. Diocese are constantly offering workshops for their education.
What I see many bloggers pleading for is Mass that is following the rubrics respectfully. THAT is what will bring people to the Lord.
Once again, bloggers find the exception and not the rule, run to their computers and go SEE SEE look how bad things are. The rubics of the mass give room to meet the faithfuls cultural , spiritual social needs. This is an important pastoral component to the liturgy.
 
Hmmm…or one wonders if the bloggers are like the first part of that gospel…Jesus told the story to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and dispised everyone else…🤷
Does that also apply to people who post to Catholic discussion forums?
 
This is the message of the church and that of 99% of the bishops. The 1% that may not give thease teachings are the ones bloggers want to jump on to true to make some point about the direction of the church to which they don’t agree. There is also a great patoral conmpnent to his words. Many time bloggers confuse the pastoral message by some bishops and priest with doctrine. It is possible alsway to recongize the sin, and minister to the sinner. It is always in ministing, that we turn people to God.
Where did you find your statistics on this? I wish it was only one percent, I believe it is considerably higher. The number of priests that may believe the teaching of the magisterium but do not following their calling to preach on it are far more numerious. They feel more confortable preaching on ideals rather than specifics, avoiding the problems facing the Church today.

I understand that the percentage of pedophile priest is less than one percent, however, look at the amount of attention they get from the main stream media.
 
First of all you cannot put “the bloggers” into one box, they are all different people and have different positions. If the blogger is preaching according to the magisterium they should be convinced of the own righteousness and if they live by their beliefs they will not dispise anyone.
I agree with this, but I think the point is that there’s a lot of despising and self-righteousness being communicated via these blogs, and/or assuming of the functions of others (lay assuming clerical functions of discernment and correction; not to mention divine discernment of fidelity, sincerity, and lack thereof).

None of us has any way of determining what proportion of such vehement blog-creators and contributors have personally approached the clergy members whose positions trouble them, asking them first to clarify a vague, confusing, ambiguous, even duplicitous-sounding message, let alone a practice. My guess, given my reading of other kinds of blogs, is that very often these people (1) have in fact never approached these authority figures to determine answers, (2) are assuming an awful lot of specifics that cannot be derived from vague indicators, such as (as another poster mentioned) a letter or statement intended as pastoral, not doctrinal. Pastoral communications have the character of being positive, welcoming, inclusive, and general. Usually they are not summaries of systematic theology.

I think these blogs reflect a couple of things:
(1) the anxiety created by varieties of messages that seem to flourish in the Church, but may be exaggerated by assumptions of the faithful and silence from clergy.
(2) the sheer multiplication of modern communication modes, combined with the prominent influence of secular messages and the attempt of the church to filter, clarify, and resist as appropriate. The speed of modern communication is far greater than any bureuacracy (including the church) can handle.

Do you think that bishops are on the 'net 24/7, reading this stuff? (Blogs and forums) If in fact they are doing their jobs, that’s not what they are doing. They still may not be informed enough about lay distress, and in that sense they should indeed make it their job to become informed. My “issue” with the hierarchy is that, like other members of bureaucracies (politicians, educational administrators, etc.), they spend too much time maintaining the bureaucracy vs. getting out more to the people each of those functions serve.

I’ll keep saying this, as I’ve said on other threads: I strongly support the right of Catholic laity to have clear messages communicated from their pastors and their bishops. That doesn’t mean a persecution message: it just means that silence and passivity frustrate the laity in light of overtly confusing doctrinal messages that in the recent and distant past have inappropriately co-existed with appropriately welcoming parishes.

So, for example, the laity have a right to know what “All are Welcome” means. That may sound petty of me, but the fact is that many returning Catholics do not understand what it means, and that has not been made clear to these returning Catholics. In some parishes, in some time periods, All Are Welcome meant all are welcome to receive sacraments in any particular state whatsoever. It also meant, All theologies are welcome. Some of those church members still are under that illusion. That’s clear from what I just saw a few weeks ago in a local parish.

All are welcome means come-as-you-are to God (and to your parish), not come as you are (necessarily) to the sacraments. Priests and bishops may think that’s self-evident, but it is not. But if they were communicated with directly (not on blogs), they would quickly see how non-self-evident it is, and how the liaty are asking for clear restatements of doctrine, without compromising pastoral roles. There are many ways of handling this. For example, in one local parish there used to be a regular group for newly returning Catholics (or those contemplating returning). The point of the group — led by a priest – was not to Enable any old person to return with an invented theology; it was to clarify what the Church’s teachings were and were not, so that discernment could follow. In fact what happened was that 90% of those in these groups did return, but they returned being very clear where the boundaries were, so the group provided an excellent service.

Be very clear, though, that the return was made possible largely by the welcoming, pastoral character of this priest, who is known for his approachability. It was not aided by any Laying Down the Law message, despite the clarification. What the bishops, therefore, have to consider in their role is church membership, not just doctrinal adherence. They have to integrate their role as teachers with their role as shepherds. That can be a balancing act. Across the country overall, church attendance is down vs. 12months ago. In our parish it is down 22%.

What these blogs represent is frustration. But I don’t think that their multiplicity, let alone their strident tone, solves the problems that have resulted in their existence.
 
What these blogs represent is frustration. But I don’t think that their multiplicity, let alone their strident tone, solves the problems that have resulted in their existence.
Again, all blogs, just as all posters on this forum cannot be placed in one box. Some of these blogs are expressing a voice that very much needs to be heard. For my part, I am happy that the internet is being used by people other than pornographers.
 
Does that also apply to people who post to Catholic discussion forums?
Could be…shouldn’t we always examine our own actions?🤷 Wouldn’t you agree?

I just have a problem with what could quickly turn into a witch hunt…who made these people THE authority? Some damage can be done quickly that might not be true…and then it’s really hard to undo that damage.
 
First of all you cannot put “the bloggers” into one box, they are all different people and have different positions. If the blogger is preaching according to the magisterium they should be convinced of the own righteousness and if they live by their beliefs they will not dispise anyone.
Well…first of all…I said **one wonders **if it applies to them…that is a long way from putting them all in one box.

We don’t know that the bloggers are convinced of their own righteousness…but isn’t it a good warning for all of us? Are we so convinced of our own righteousness that we are missing a lesson from Christ? Should we be convinced of our own righteousness? Thinking we have arrived? Or should we continually strive to be like the saints?🤷
 
Could be…shouldn’t we always examine our own actions?🤷 Wouldn’t you agree?

I just have a problem with what could quickly turn into a witch hunt…who made these people THE authority? Some damage can be done quickly that might not be true…and then it’s really hard to undo that damage.
Nobody made them the authority. Which is why we take it with a grain of salt when we read their posts and why I think this article is way overwrought. Most bloggers are legends in their own mind

This morning’s Denver Post has an article about how the tea party was really not in line with Catholic teaching. Of course they quote dof the usual canards-that conservative policies on immigration, the death penalty, social welfare etc. were contrary to church teaching, which of course it’s not since the Church does not endorse either parties solutions to these issues, however to get back to the topic at hand their main source was a blogger from the National Catholic reporter. Now that’s two strikes against i backed source right off the bat!
 
Well…first of all…I said **one wonders **if it applies to them…that is a long way from putting them all in one box.

We don’t know that the bloggers are convinced of their own righteousness…but isn’t it a good warning for all of us? Are we so convinced of our own righteousness that we are missing a lesson from Christ? Should we be convinced of our own righteousness? Thinking we have arrived? Or should we continually strive to be like the saints?🤷
Regarding your phrase “our own righeousness”; being convinced of what is right and living what is right are two different things. The Church very clearly teaches what is right, living according to that teaching is what we all struggle with.This discussion is not about whether we live according to what is right (we are all sinners) but is an attempt by some of us to encourage Catholics who are obviously off track to learn their faith by seeking and listening to the magisterium of the Church. Before we can live the faith we must know the faith. (Step number one).
 
Regarding your phrase “our own righeousness”; being convinced of what is right and living what is right are two different things. The Church very clearly teaches what is right, living according to that teaching is what we all struggle with.This discussion is not about whether we live according to what is right (we are all sinners) but is an attempt by some of us to encourage Catholics who are obviously off track to learn their faith by seeking and listening to the magisterium of the Church. Before we can live the faith we must know the faith. (Step number one).
See…that is not what I see from this. How I wish it was…at least if it is done in love. But some people get off in left field…according to what they think is right. There are also people who will rudely disagree with people who even listen to the magisterium of the Church…because they don’t think it should have been allowed. Take the issue of CITH…then you have bigger fight all together… Add that to that no one really can agree on the issue of a liberal Catholic…as I have found from a post I made.

So…what exactly do these bloggers go after? Is it a bishop who is openly for abortion? Or is it a priest that blinks three times instead of the required two? Its very dangerous ground and a fine line of seperation.

Kind of reminds me of history where there were those in the Church who didn’t want those who didn’t stay with the faith during times of persucution to be allowed back into the Church.
 
Nobody made them the authority. Which is why we take it with a grain of salt when we read their posts and why I think this article is way overwrought. Most bloggers are legends in their own mind
Fair enough. It’s just way too easy to jump to conclusions and do damage to peoples reputation on the internet and in a blog. Even if it is not true.
 
See…that is not what I see from this. How I wish it was…at least if it is done in love. But some people get off in left field…according to what they think is right. There are also people who will rudely disagree with people who even listen to the magisterium of the Church…because they don’t think it should have been allowed. Take the issue of CITH…then you have bigger fight all together… Add that to that no one really can agree on the issue of a liberal Catholic…as I have found from a post I made.

So…what exactly do these bloggers go after? Is it a bishop who is openly for abortion? Or is it a priest that blinks three times instead of the required two? Its very dangerous ground and a fine line of seperation.

Kind of reminds me of history where there were those in the Church who didn’t want those who didn’t stay with the faith during times of persucution to be allowed back into the Church.
As one poster stated, These are all individual blogger and posters on this forum; one must take what is offered at its face value and with a grain of salt. Measure it against Church teaching and draw your own conclusions as to the correctness of the blogger or poster. Many are correct and many are wrong. Regarding your attempt to classify what a liberal Catholic is, I don’t believe these labels fit Catholics. If you follow Catholic teaching you are a faithful Catholic, if you don’t you are a Catholic who is not living their faith completely.

The main problem is that many people are liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat first and Catholic second. Backwards.
 
As one poster stated, These are all individual blogger and posters on this forum; one must take what is offered at its face value and with a grain of salt. Measure it against Church teaching and draw your own conclusions as to the correctness of the blogger or poster. Many are correct and many are wrong. Regarding your attempt to classify what a liberal Catholic is, I don’t believe these labels fit Catholics. If you follow Catholic teaching you are a faithful Catholic, if you don’t you are a Catholic who is not living their faith completely.

The main problem is that many people are liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat first and Catholic second. Backwards.
I would agree with you on that…following Catholic teaching…you are a faithful Catholic.

Problem is…there are others that would disagree with that. Some because they honestly believe that the Church was railroaded into agreeing with it. So…problem is …who decides what is living your faith? Because it’s not always just following Church teaching. There are those that think that is not enough. And my fear is…that it will be those that start calling out other Catholics…even though the people being called out might fit 100% into Church teaching. This is where Catholic charity can get lost…I fear…IMHO.
 
I would agree with you on that…following Catholic teaching…you are a faithful Catholic.

Problem is…there are others that would disagree with that. Some because they honestly believe that the Church was railroaded into agreeing with it. So…problem is …who decides what is living your faith? Because it’s not always just following Church teaching. There are those that think that is not enough. And my fear is…that it will be those that start calling out other Catholics…even though the people being called out might fit 100% into Church teaching. This is where Catholic charity can get lost…I fear…IMHO.
It **is just **Catholic teaching, this is where many go astray; (who decides what is living your faith? The magisterium). Those that think that is not enough are wrong, simple as that. It is the old trick of relativism favorite trick of the devil. Forget the one truth of the Church as taught by Christ and passed to His apostles, bishops, and priest; paint everything grey and throw out every thing that is too hard to live with.

Railroaded by who? This has consistently been taught by the Catholic Church for 2000 years. Railroaded by Bush 2000 years ago?

There is that charity ploy again, using it to deny truth. Read Pope Benedict XVI Caritas in Veritate (Charity in Truth) one cannot legitimately separate charity and truth. Those who attempt to deny or bend the truth in the name of charity are not being charitable. What is more important a persons human feelings or their immortal soul?
 
That is the tactic sometimes used to derail a conversation. A Catholic speaks the truth plainly and he or she is called uncharitable. If we do not identify problems, and admit our faults to others, other Catholics, how will we be renewed?

The fact is, too many Catholics are living like Agnostics. I heard a priest say this on Catholic Radio.

God bless,
Ed
 
That is the tactic sometimes used to derail a conversation. A Catholic speaks the truth plainly and he or she is called uncharitable. If we do not identify problems, and admit our faults to others, other Catholics, how will we be renewed?

The fact is, too many Catholics are living like Agnostics. I heard a priest say this on Catholic Radio.

God bless,
Ed
I know what you are trying to say…I don’t necessarily disagree. However people’s version of truth can be very different…and still within Church teaching. But there are those who still think it’s wrong and not conservative enough. And they honestly think they are speaking the “truth”. So…this is where the danger lies.

I’m not necessarily talking about something that everyone agrees is Church teaching…such as pro-life. But what about Catholics who take CITH? There are those people that would say…“you are not living your faith correctly”…and may even think they are being charitable. I speak from experience…having had people comment on things like that to me…😦
 
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