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dulcissima
Guest
Actually, I think it is a fairly interesting thread. A whole different perspective than the circ threads in the parenting section. Thanks for the great info you are providing, sancta.
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Gisella
Guest
I agree most everything you said here. In response to the last paragraph, it may be sad(I wouldn’t say shallow because I don’t think it’s as trivial as eye color for example.), but it goes beyond just pleasure and comfort. I have a very negative view of circumcision, and I associate it with middle America, and I just don’t find all-American men attractive. I like exotic intellectual men, so I might not even be attracted to a guy that would most likely be circumcised.Shanny, I agree with you mostly, but let me play the devil’s advocate for a bit…
I think where Giselle is coming from is that yeah, sex is a big part of a marriage. What if your husband had to be rough with you in order to achieve a climax? What if you were always too dry and uncomfortable? What if every time you made love, your epsiotomy area felt like it was on fire and ached for hours afterwards? Would sex really be that enjoyable, or would it become a chore?
I think her concern is that not for all circ’ed men but with lots of them, sex is different. Not that she knows this being a virgin and all, but perhaps she’s seeing things like this: She’s blind. Would she prefer to see in black and white, or color? Everyone who has seen both tells her color is better, but those who’ve only seen black and white tell her that’s just fine, too. So of course she wants the color. She wants better, not just fine.
And Giselle, this doesn’t mean I’m saying that all intact men are better - I have no idea myself.I’m only hearing what you have been told.
Bluntly speaking, yes, circ’ed men are missing something. And that “something” was there for not only the husband’s benefit, but the wife’s benefit. So perhaps she’s wanting “all” of a husband and wants to experience sex the way it was supposed to be.
There’s me telling you what I think she’s saying, and what I think on a once-in-awhile basis about my own married life. But I still think it would be sad (shallow, even?) to choose a man based on something he himself had no control over. It wasn’t his choice.
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sanctareparata
Guest
Well then, there ya go.
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graceandglory
Guest
You know what Gisella,
That’s not the kind of stuff you need to be talking about with several people if you have a commitment to remaining a virgin. There is a lot more to being a virgin than just the physical part of it. You need to become chaste in your mind. I’m only going from what you’ve posted here.
I have never discussed these kinds of intimate details with my girlfriends, ever. Certainly not before I was married. And then once I got married, we didn’t even discuss the salacious details among ourselves. And I don’t think I’m a prude.
You need to guard your mind from thinking about that kind of stuff, and comparing. I’m not saying that you have sinned, but I’m going to suggest that because it’s stuck in your mind, the way it got into your mind might have been sinful. You might think about that and go to confession to help you get rid of the thoughts.
You would really enjoy Christopher West’s book: Good News for Sex and Marriage. It’s about Catholic sexual morality and marriage. It’s not salacious but very informative.
A man is more than his circumcision status. If you get married, you will be making love with him, not his “part.”
Reducing a man to that part is making him into an object to be used. The opposite of loving is using.
Karol Wojtyla said that in Love and Responsibility. You would like that book too. It’s about real love and attraction.
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graceandglory
Guest
No, but it is Biblical.
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graceandglory
Guest
That’s not true. You already mentioned that you have brought it up with “several people.”
And now you’ve brought it up here. Methinks thou doth protesteth too much.
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graceandglory
Guest
And you are hearing this from several people who have lots of experiences to compare different mens’ genitalia?
That doesn’t sound like chaste conversation that a “virgin” should be having on such a regular basis.
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Gisella
Guest
My friends only told me their experiences.
Had a friend who was in a car accident when she was sixteen… massive abdominal injuries requiring a complete hysterectomy and some reconstructive surgery.
Yeah, something’s missing. A LOT is missing. Thank God it’s not a loving husband who loved her for her whole self, not just the “missing” parts. I’d put their sex life up against any “complete” couple out there. They’ve been on their “honeymoon” for over 15 years now!
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Gisella
Guest
Most virgins talk about sex, and virgins do hang out with non-virgins. I never thought that was considered unchaste. Most discussions are out of curiosity not lust.
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sanctareparata
Guest
No. It’s. Not. :banghead:
Sorry, that’s just me feeling a bit crazed.
God’s command was removal of the tip. The rest of the penis remained intact. The glans was still covered. The penis still functioned like an intact one. It even looked pretty much intact.
Bris Milah (cutting of the tip) ← God’s command
vs
Bris Periah (laying bare the glans) <–Later *Rabbinical *decision
So no, lack of foreskin is not Biblical.
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sanctareparata
Guest
That is very sad, but I’m not arguing that one shouldn’t marry someone who’s missing something.
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graceandglory
Guest
It sounds like you have some different information than I do.
Can you reveal your sources so I can look it up myself?
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ALLGIRLS
Guest
I beg to differ. My dh is circumsized, and sex has never been a “chore”, or the least bit unpleasurable (best I’ve ever had, actually, and no, he wasn’t my 1st, and he’s much better than the one uncirc’d man I was with). I’ve never had a problem w/ lubrication, either (not even while breastfeeding, which apparently a problem for some women), that’s what foreplay is for
.My mother, on the hand, were she alive, would tell you to marry a circumsized man. My dad was uncirc’d, and she apparently had infections constantly. My stepdad was circ’d, and she never had another one the whole time they were married.
Now, I’m not saying that uncirc’d penises cause infections, but I am pointing out that different people will tell you totally opposite things about circ. vs. uncirc. penises, and you can’t base your choice of husband on that. I’m also not pro circumcision. If I ever have a boy (4 girls so far) I won’t have him circumsized, just because I think it’s unnecessary cosmetic surgery, and if he wants it done later on as an adult it can be his decision. However, I think it’s wrong to shut out at least 50% of the eligible men based on something that they most likely (probably over 99%) did not choose for themselves. The size, shape and condition of his penis, so long as he has one that works
,should be your last concern when it comes to finding a husband.In Christ,
Ellen
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graceandglory
Guest
From www.newadvent.com
Leviticus 12:3
And on the eighth day the infant shall be circumcised.
Definition of circumcision from www.newadvent.com
**The Hebrew, like the Greek (peritome), and the Latin (circumcisio), signifies a cutting and, specifically, the removal of the prepuce, or foreskin, from the penis. **
So, go ahead and bang your head against the wall, call me dumb or whatever, but I’m going with the traditional understanding of the word, and the definition of the word from an official Catholic Bible encyclopedia.
I also spent about an hour researching Jewish ritual circumcision, and haven’t yet found a kosher Jewish website that has your same arguments.
I stand by my former words that circumcision, is biblical.
But thanks, I learned a lot.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Thank you for this thread. I’ve been feeling sad and I’ve gotten a couple of chuckles.
Gisella, If you intend on remaining chaste until your wedding, really, what are you going to do? When are you going to find out?
Is the future conversation going to be, “Gisella, I love you will you be wife?” "Well, let’s see, do you mind answering a few questions about your…Um sorry, that’s the deal breaker.
You love you husband, regardless of silly things, and especially things he can’t control.
.
Gisella, If you intend on remaining chaste until your wedding, really, what are you going to do? When are you going to find out?
Is the future conversation going to be, “Gisella, I love you will you be wife?” "Well, let’s see, do you mind answering a few questions about your…Um sorry, that’s the deal breaker.
You love you husband, regardless of silly things, and especially things he can’t control.
.
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sanctareparata
Guest
I don’t think you proved anything. I do have the same Bible you have.From www.newadvent.com
Leviticus 12:3
And on the eighth day the infant shall be circumcised.
Definition of circumcision from www.newadvent.com
**The Hebrew, like the Greek (peritome), and the Latin (circumcisio), signifies a cutting and, specifically, the removal of the prepuce, or foreskin, from the penis. **
So, go ahead and bang your head against the wall, call me dumb or whatever, but I’m going with the traditional understanding of the word, and the definition of the word from an official Catholic Bible encyclopedia.
I also spent about an hour researching Jewish ritual circumcision, and haven’t yet found a kosher Jewish website that has your same arguments.
I stand by my former words that circumcision, is biblical.
But thanks, I learned a lot.
And New Advent doesn’t specify how *much *foreskin, only that that is the area circumcision affects.In Biblical times, the foreskin was considered to be only the bit of skin that hung past the glans - thus “fore” skin. (It hung before the rest of the penis skin).
**Peron, James E. Circumcision: Then and Now. Many Blessings 2000;III:41-42. **cirp.org/library/history/peron2/
“The original Biblical circumcision of Abraham’s time was a relatively minor ritual circumcision procedure in which only the redundant end of the foreskin extending beyond the tip of the glans was removed.”
medicalnewstoday.com/your…pinionid=10172
“Showing Jesus intact in nude paintings is consistent with the Jewish Law of circumcision at the time Jesus was circumcised. The same is true of Michaelangelo’s David that shows a nick on the dorsal of his foreskin. In Biblical times the foreskin was only that part of the prepuce extending beyond the glans penis. The Jewish circumcision at the time of Jesus did not expose the glans.”
cirp.org/library/history/
“Much later in the Hellenic period, about 140 C.E., the circumcision procedure was modified to make it impossible for a Jew to appear to be an uncircumcised. A radical new procedure called peri’ah was introduced by the priests and rabbis. In this procedure the foreskin was stripped away from the glans, with which it is fused in the infant”
**Schultheiss D, Truss MC, Stief CG, Jonas U. Uncircumcision: a historical review of preputial restoration. Plast Reconstr Surg 1998;101(7): 1990-1998. **healthboard.com/websites/Detailed/66675.html
“…about 140 AD, they introduced radical circumcision to the Jewish community, the so-called periah. It left the glans totally uncovered…”
**The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religion, Oxford University Press, New York & Oxford 1997. **cirp.org/library/cultural/JewishEnc/
“…the rabbis added to the requirement of cutting the foreskin that of peri’ah (laying bare the glans)…”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah
“The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religion, hypothesizes that the present form of circumcision, involving periah (peeling back the foreskin), was commenced during the Second Temple period. According to this hypothesis, Jewish hellenists, wanting to assimilate into Greek society, obliterated the sign of their circumcisions by finding ways to lengthen them, to make it look as if they had not been circumcised at all.[27] This practice was unacceptable to the Jewish community at large, and led to the complete removal of the foreskin to expose the glans. The frenulum may also be cut away at the same time, in a procedure called frenectomy.[28]”
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sanctareparata
Guest
But you didn’t say that. Circumcision IS Biblical. You were implying that “lack of foreskin” is Biblical.
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graceandglory
Guest
Yeah. That too.
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rpp
Guest
I am no prude, but this thread should be locked. Why is it that this type of tripe is always started by new mermbers.
This subject does not belong on this forum. This is a family forum. If some “virgin” wants to be publically unchaste like OP does, then take it to another web site.
This subject does not belong on this forum. This is a family forum. If some “virgin” wants to be publically unchaste like OP does, then take it to another web site.
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