Yes, I would say the conditions would change quite substantially if you reduced the money for capital expenditures. Do you know what capital expenditures are?
I am sorry that you are becoming upset. And, if I caused that, I am sorry.
Dante, That’s neither the point, nor the objective. It’s not about “winning”.
actually the data proves “most money in school budgets is not spent at the instruction level”. That is a simple straight forward fact. Your assertion would need the asset value of capital budget to exceed the capital budget which makes no sense if you read the budget(I have to guess you did not read the budget
so far I have stayed under budget on my capital projects how about you? Was it my recent 38%ROI calculation on the second coater the root of your accusation? did some leak company information to you? I stand behind that calculationBasically I would operate the schools differently thus the budget would not look the same at all, including the 199 million dollars on page 4 all of that would be gone. hey did you notice the 10.5 million miscellaneous fund was dropped to 8.5 million? Again this miscellaneous fund is not in the operating budget. BTW if you read that page the Capital budget ( this is typically opened with bonds then paid back with interest through taxes on residents) is down from ~443 million to ~391 million again that is over 200 million off from your earlier assertion.
actually DISD is a very high paying district, far above normal. That is clearly displayed in the BLS numbers however I still to not see how you or those reporters justify the number you are using. Could you point that number out in the BLS data as I can only find lower numbers.
actually that is exactly what the budget shows
really I suspect you did not read the actual budget it is hard to image you want to defend some of those line items as “bonds”
is this not a strange way to reaffirm my earlier post on the same subject? - thank you
This is a good start how about you describe where all substantial money comes from for schools I’ll take tax payers what else is there? Let me give you a hint Bond Holder do not forfeit their investments, so who pays them?
I’ll take this to mean you now realize:
Sounds like you are only counting the time the teacher works in the classroom. You need to also count the time the teacher works at home and before & after school.
Usually in the highest paid districts, there are 1000 applications for each job available (at least). So, while most teachers would LOVE a great paying district, not every teacher can do so as there are only so many jobs. Further, you suggest that a teacher find another occupation. Most teachers teach because it is their passion. They love children. (at least the good ones). We entrust our children to them…they should be paid as such. We pay doctors well, lawyers well, …heck, we even pay veternarians better than teachers and they care for animals! Teachers deserve to be paid enough money to raise their family on.
I’d like to know what the professions are and how many credit hours are required before I can comment.
A school has a limited budget to give teachers…not because class supplies are unimportant, but because there is not enough money in the budget. A good teacher buys things that will improve their classroom. I, frankly, have never heard of a teacher who didn’t use their own money. You say that “you” didn’t need it badly enough. I am trying not to be offensive, but maybe that’s why you aren’t a teacher anymore. It’s not about what you need, but what they need. (Again, I’m not trying to insult you…I would not make a good nurse, thus I am not one…we all have our talents, but none of us are good at everything.)
Did someone say six figures? If they did, I missed it. That is not my assertion, though. But they certainly should be paid more than $30k or $40k. I made $35k as a SECRETARY for goodness sake!!
not all students will achieve what they should even if the teacher is doing everything right. Surely, if you were previously an educator, you would remember this. Unless you taught in a private school where most parents were present in their kids’ lives. Then I can see where your perception might be skewed. However, in public schools, a child will NOT care about school if they have no heat at home. Or if they have drug deals going on in their home. Or if their mother has 3 or 4 different guys sleeping over in a week. I’ve used these examples before, NOT becasue I think they sound good, but because they are actual example of kids I had in a class before. In ONE class, together. And there were more "sob stories’ in that class too. Do you think they really cared about doing their story webs?
Thus, you are proving my point that teaching wasn’t for you. Again, it is not an insult, as I can recognize I most certainly am not cut out to be a computer tech. However, I think you either harbor a grudge against the profession or you simply don’t understand it.
Actually, I think it’s a sad commentary on society that we value those responsible for our children less than we value other occupations. Aside from doctors and researchers, there is no other occupation that I can think of that harbors more responsibility for society.
No, I did not teach in a private school.
You made an assumption that is absolutely not true.
I am not a computer tech. That was the first job I took when I moved.
I do not harbor a grudge, and I do understand teaching. I still teach, I just don’t get pad for it. I volunteer.
It’s not about “valuing” them. Of course they are valuable. So are:
I have never made any comment that would indicate schools are not paid for by taxpayers.
I never said they had to be. So, you move from owning to leasing. The students must still be housed, bused, etc.-- the expenses remain no matter what you cal them. Leasing is not always more cost effective than owning. It can be. There are schools already doing so. It has not, by and large, eliminated their problems or resulted in a budget decrease.
Private schools are also not subject to the same laws as public schools.
You have made it all about the money. The whole premise has been teachers are underpaid-- let’s give them gobs of money.
On this we are in 100% agreement. I guess you missed my numerous posts on this topic.
I guess since we’re three pages into these posts and you are only picking select posts of mine to comment on you’ve missed the numerous times I’ve already said this, so one more time:
This is unsupported by any facts.
No, I suggested it was a choice as is the district in which they teach.
Clearly you’ve not spent much time in a teacher’s lounge.
And, it is my assertion that they are paid well. Relative to the communities they live in and the average wage in that community, teachers are paid well. Teacher pay varies greatly across the country, and there are some pockets of poorly paid teachers-- but on the whole “teachers” as a class of workers are NOT underpaid. The data does not bear it out.
None of these professions are in the public sector. Therefore, their wages are not limited by tax revenues but by what the market will bear. “We” pay baseball payers millions too.
Then do the research it’s readily available on the internet.
Then go to the school board meetings, advocate for higher taxes, and increase revenue. Except in the states that have passed laws on how much revenue can be collected.
The kids don’t need most of the stuff teachers are complaining about not having money to buy.
You are quite mistaken.
Please provide data to support that they are not.
Yes, someone did say that.
As am I. I loved teaching. And, I love learning.
This is not only true of teachers. I wish everyone could be paid according to the value of their profession, and of their personal value to an organization or as a person. Really, what is the value of a person? What amount can you pay them that compensates for them being away from their family, putting in long hours at work, etc? The answer is really that no one is every paid what they are worth. We are all have infinite worth (as children of God and to our families). What we don’t have are infinite resources.
And yet, you have only to look a few posts below yours and this is what was posted to me: That said, they still need to be paid enough to support their families.
(a) You are not a loser.
Well, I do agree with you that student achievement should factor into a teacher’s evaluation, but I don’t think it is fair to make it all about that. Maybe we agree a little more on this aspect than I realized. I also believe that teachers should be rewarded based on performance, not just seniority…so we agree there as well.
Well, it’s really antedotal. It depends ont he child. You are right…sometimes when they have a bad home life they still care. But when they don’t feel SAFE at home, the LAST THING on their mind is doing school work. Again, it depends on the specific student, their specific homelife, and how they react. If they are hungry,they aren’t concentrating on their math. My point was that no matter how good a teacher is, she cannot get all students to perform well on the standardized tests (our current measurement system).
Again, it depends on all the factors I mentioned about. Of course you’re right that not every child is unteachable. In fact, all are teachable. But will all of them perform well on the standardized tests used to determine their achievement. I believe that is what is in question, correct? I don’t disagree that all students are teachable.
You are right. I do not know anything about you. Would you mind if I asked why you left the profession?
I wasn’t really assuming…I was guessing though. Although that’s not entirely fair. It just appeared from your posts that you have a lot of bad feelings about the profession, and I’m trying to figure out where that is coming from.
Oh, I know. I was just saying that as my example of something I’M not good at. I wasn’t implying that’s what you are.
Of course not. I’m not advocating unliminted amounts…just enough to support their families. Certainly much more than a secretary.
I can see how YOU feel this way, since you never spent any of your own money to purchase supplies to enhance the students’ learning. Most teachers believe it is extremely important for their students and use their own money to do this. Unfortunately, it takes a big chunk out of their mediocre pay. Most teachers I know spend at least $500-$1000 every year on classroom supplies. (No, not candy treats either.
I’m talking bulletin boards, dry erase markers, construction/art paper, science equipment, art supplies in general, books (there MUST be an adequate classroom library in every elementary room, and that is not provided by the school), manipulatives, etc. Obviously you and I have a different philosophy of teaching. I believe in hands-on learning, and it’s difficult to do with the budget a teacher gets fromschool. (In our district, $300/year
)Teachers do take action. It’s called the union.
Actually, I responded to your post as soon as I read it, without reading through the entire thread.
In these positions, are they required to take work home every night? Without fail? Most white collar people I know who have to take work home do so maybe once or twice a week. Most teachers I know put AT LEAST as many hours in at home as they do in the classroom. I think we’re really talking apples and oranges here. Again, I think your style of teaching is MUCH different than mine. Or most people I’ve worked with, for that matter. Maybe that’s why we’re disagreeing som much on this issue.
It may not be supported b y statistics, but it is supported by facts. I’ve seen the applications! LOL That’s fact enough for me!! And I’m friends with a few people that do the hiring in my area, and trust me…1000 apps per opening is MINIMUM at premium districts around here.
I should have qualified that with most teachers I KNOW. Again, you must have had a horrible experience with education. You have such a jaded outlook. It’s very sad actually.
If you think a teacher making the same income or LESS than a secretary in the same area is paid well, then I guess I don’t know what to say.
I have. My research does not support your findings, which is why I asked for specific examples of your assertions. Additionally, you are in the white collar field. Can you give me examples as they relate to you, then?
You are very wrong. The things I mentioned are very important. Do the research.
My “data” is primarily people I know. They make $30k!! I can’t imagine supporting a family on that?!?!?! Not in my area anyway!! And if you don’t believe that is the average starting salary, go do the research yourself and see.
The BLS (all of the US) data (see post #55) claims one in ten teacher makes under $26,000 they would probably love to move up to your numbers. BTW the average income in the US is $41,000 which is about the same as the median household (~$45,000) so about half of teachers make a salary that would rate below national average income, and about half of teachers rate a salary that without other income will rate below average household income
Wow. See, that’s just so sad to me that teachers make so little, considering the responsibilities they have and the lives entrusted to them.
