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DanteAlighieri
Guest
Wow. See, that’s just so sad to me that teachers make so little, considering the responsibilities they have and the lives entrusted to them.
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kenedw57
Guest
No, look at this way. It costs in Oregon about $10,000 per student to educate one per year. So if the typical school room has 30 kids, then it costs the taxpayers $300,000 per classroom. So, the teacher with benefits and all makes $50,000, so where does the other $250,000 annually go? Now, back to the teachers, they are paid for the number of contract days they teach in a school year. In Oregon that is 197 or less days a year. 8 hours times 187 equals about 1500 hours a year. Divide $50,000 a year by 1500 = about $33 an hour. But what does a plumber cost you? I just checked and here it is $80 and hour. What does all of this mean? Nothing, just that there are many ways to look at teachers pay, and if you think it’s easy, give it a try for about a month!
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manualman
Guest
Arrogant nonsense! Everybody in nearly every profession thinks this. I’m a civil engineer. I design potable water distribution systems and sanitary sewer networks. Without my profession, you probably wouldn’t even exist since your great grandpa would’ve died from a cholera epidemic along with most of the rest of today’s population.
Lawyers rightly point out that our complex specialized economy could never function if law didn’t reliably provide a stable foundation and predictable environment.
Auto mechanics note that our civilization would collapse if we had to go back to walking and horse riding for transport.
Electric linemen correctly note that doctors and researchers couldn’t do hardly squat if they didn’t keep the juice flowing.
And so on. Fact is that we live in an amazingly specialized culture and are ALL interdependent on each other. I make less than some teachers in my area in spite of needing 5 years of college, a 4 year internship, licensing exam and ongoing education. I make more than some other teachers. Right in the middle.
But you know who ticks ME off? School administration who give themselves a 250% raise the year before they retire so that their pension is based on a skewed number and they make more in retirement than they did while working. It’s become SOP around here and it STINKS!
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LeahInancsi
Guest
How did you learn all that genius? Books you say? Who wrote them?
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boppaid
Guest
Good point. Further, I am impressed with all the schooling your job requires. And with all the schooling many impressive careers require. Who taught those courses? Teachers? Where would you, or anyone for that matter, be without teachers? All successful people with successful careers can trace that success back to a teacher .How did you learn all that genius? Books you say? Who wrote them?
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manualman
Guest
You miss the point. You claim yours is the most crucial of professions. I say that is like arguing whether humans need oxygen or water more. It’s a silly argument.
We’re up the creek if ANY of the major professions suddenly were to vanish! Claiming the superiority of yours is petty tribalism.
We’re up the creek if ANY of the major professions suddenly were to vanish! Claiming the superiority of yours is petty tribalism.
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LeahInancsi
Guest
Who are you referring to when you say “YOU miss the point.”?
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the_phoenix
Guest
Having earned a teaching certificate in secondary education for Spanish and English that I decided to never use because what I learned as a student teacher was that there is absolutely no way I am cut out to teach teenagers no matter how much the salary is, I’m very glad there are in fact teachers willing to endure junior and senior high school, and don’t begrudge them the money.
Meanwhile, I happily use Spanish, English, and other languages as a technical writer.
~~ the phoenix
Meanwhile, I happily use Spanish, English, and other languages as a technical writer.
~~ the phoenix
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manualman
Guest
My response was to boppaid, but it applies to anybody with a similar attitude of supremacy for his/her own profession in the pecking order of society.
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LeahInancsi
Guest
I don’t suppose it applies to me since I consider accountants a necessary evil.
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boppaid
Guest
I’m sorry if my post came off that way. But let’s face it EVERY profession that is necessary in our world is educated by teachers, and would not be where they are today were it not for teachers. That includes doctors, scientists, accountants, researchers, etc. However, that is NOT to say they aren’t extremely important professions either. They are! And, yes, we’d be up a creek if those professions vanished. However, I just want you to remember who educated the people in those professions.
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boppaid
Guest
You, I think, are misunderstanding me. My point really had nothing to do with pecking order, but rather, that teachers aren’t paid their worth. We pay certain professions SO MUCH money (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc). Yet, we don’t offer compensation for teachers anywhere near that! Even teachers who have as much (or more) schooling than doctors and lawyers. It was pointed out to me that these professions are extremely valuable. I was simply stating that, yes, they are…but there wouldn’t be educated doctors, lawyers, etc., were it not for the education they received.
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ChrisR246
Guest
I think there are 2 reasons why other professions make more than teachers, on the whole (and they are both kinda connected):
- Accountability (Risk). As an engineer, if I install a multi milllion $ system and it doesn’t work, I’ll lose my job. I do not believe I’ve ever heard of a teacher losing their job because kids in their class are not learning. I imagine it happens, but the teachers unions fight to make sure it doesn’t.
- The compulsory component of public education - Since we are forced to pay for it everyone wants to keep the costs minimal. Teachers salaries are an easily identifiable component to focus on. Again, no one complains about how much I make (except my wife
), but I’m sure if everyone were legally compelled to buy our product, whether they wanted it or not, regardless of quality, or if they were already buying a replacement product they preferred, they would start complaining about how much I make.
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boppaid
Guest
True, they would make more money that way, but then they wouldn’t have the best interests of the children at heart which would, in turn, mean that they aren’t “good” teachers.
Kind of a vicious circle, I guess.
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LeahInancsi
Guest
Where do parents fit into your plan? What’s a teacher to do when parents don’t make their children come to school, respect the teacher, give them proper nutrition and rest so they can learn and see that they do their homework? That’s only scraping the surface.
A teacher can succeed if the don’t have anything to work with.
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ChrisR246
Guest
I’m not sure I am completely clear on which part would not be in the children’s best interests - compulsory education or teachers working in a free market system to maximize their earnings?True, they would make more money that way, but then they wouldn’t have the best interests of the children at heart which would, in turn, mean that they aren’t “good” teachers.
That would be in the entire part you cut from my post - eliminate compulsory education.
Yes, I know, those kids are innocent and should be educated. OTOH, it’s unfair that teachers have to spend so much effort on the few who don’t want to learn, to the detriment of those who do. So it seems the fair, but admittedly harsh, solution is to stop expending so much effort on those who don’t want to learn. Instead, by brining in more free market practices, other methods could be developed that will help those students who were deprived when they were younger to learn what they need to when the get older and figure out they want and education. Or, other methods may be developed that might better serve those children.
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mommyof4
Guest
I know a few meat packing plants and canneries that these children could go work in. That would keep them off the streets and still contribute to society.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
True, they would make more money that way, but then they wouldn’t have the best interests of the children at heart which would, in turn, mean that they aren’t “good” teachers.
In a free market teachers would only get paid if they show the best interest of the children. It is the compulsory market that accepts terrible teaching performance with equal (or superior) pay. (based on years of service)
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ChrisR246
Guest
Amen Brother!
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KathleenElsie
Guest
I’m late in this discussion I understand this. I have read all the posts. Now my question is this: Why is it that if you want the rising cost of compulsory education to slow down to the cost of living index are you considered against education of the children?
Our schools need more parental involvement and not money thrown at them. Teachers need to be paid a fair wage and be held responsible for the end product (the child’s ability to be a productive wage earning tax paying citizen) that will be for the good of society. Not everyone is PhD material.
Not all teachers are fit to teach. Those that are not should not be allowed to continue teaching.
It is not the teachers union responsibility to decide if my child can have an abortion without my consent. It is not the teachers union that decides if any life style is to be embraced and made like a fairy tale ending without the parents moral (name removed by moderator)ut.
When it comes to pay, I believe we need to look at the pay that all public compulsory employees receive and compare them to the same job in the private sector. This includes the wage and benefits packages that most privately employed workers do not have available to them and the private sector is required to provide the money for.
Our schools need more parental involvement and not money thrown at them. Teachers need to be paid a fair wage and be held responsible for the end product (the child’s ability to be a productive wage earning tax paying citizen) that will be for the good of society. Not everyone is PhD material.
Not all teachers are fit to teach. Those that are not should not be allowed to continue teaching.
It is not the teachers union responsibility to decide if my child can have an abortion without my consent. It is not the teachers union that decides if any life style is to be embraced and made like a fairy tale ending without the parents moral (name removed by moderator)ut.
When it comes to pay, I believe we need to look at the pay that all public compulsory employees receive and compare them to the same job in the private sector. This includes the wage and benefits packages that most privately employed workers do not have available to them and the private sector is required to provide the money for.
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