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estesbob
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I see evidence everywhere I look and with every breath I take. Again I know of absolutely nothing the Church teaches that is contradicted by science
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Mar044
Guest
I have long told people that science in itself is a false realign because they make up things they can’t prove and make it a fact, attacking our faith and way of life, telling us what we believe in is wrong.
Today is a perfect example on our convictions that we as Catholics have to make sure that the false religion of science (don’t reject things such as gravity of course) is disproved for what it is, false statements made into truth to make people turn away from god.
before you dismiss me you may have heard on CNN that Scientists Break The Speed Of Light this only shows that scientists like enstein were wrong and the only Constent IS GOD AND JESUS, so now everything that science basis there rules on don’t exist!
I am sure that they will find a way to change and explain everything away but this is as big as a mistake as science can make, and i am a believer that carbon dating and ice core samples saying world is millions of years old and we are monkey people will be disproves because god wishes it so!
Blessed be to god and Jesus Christ the true teachers of the laws of the earth in all things forever.
Today is a perfect example on our convictions that we as Catholics have to make sure that the false religion of science (don’t reject things such as gravity of course) is disproved for what it is, false statements made into truth to make people turn away from god.
before you dismiss me you may have heard on CNN that Scientists Break The Speed Of Light this only shows that scientists like enstein were wrong and the only Constent IS GOD AND JESUS, so now everything that science basis there rules on don’t exist!
I am sure that they will find a way to change and explain everything away but this is as big as a mistake as science can make, and i am a believer that carbon dating and ice core samples saying world is millions of years old and we are monkey people will be disproves because god wishes it so!
Blessed be to god and Jesus Christ the true teachers of the laws of the earth in all things forever.
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Warrior1979
Guest
The analysis is incorrect. Science simply explains the world around us. Science typically isn’t “wrong” (if based on observation), but rather explains only up to what we currently know. What we observed in the past doesn’t change when new things are discovered, and old theories are typically subsumed into larger theories. FWIW, the Magesterium doesn’t know everything either, and they can also be “wrong” except under certain conditions.
I also wouldn’t immediately jump on the “Einstein was wrong” bandwagon yet. Einstein isn’t wrong anyway, though he might be “not quite right.” There results of the experiment might be incorrect, or there could be other explanations.
FWIW, it’s already been established that information can travel faster than light by used certain types of paired particles. Particles, especially those with mass, traveling faster than light is problematic, but may appear from our reference frame if tunneling or some effect occurred.
I also wouldn’t immediately jump on the “Einstein was wrong” bandwagon yet. Einstein isn’t wrong anyway, though he might be “not quite right.” There results of the experiment might be incorrect, or there could be other explanations.
FWIW, it’s already been established that information can travel faster than light by used certain types of paired particles. Particles, especially those with mass, traveling faster than light is problematic, but may appear from our reference frame if tunneling or some effect occurred.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Just wondering…if something is travelling faster than the speed of light, would it be possible that the measuring instrument can not measure anything going that fast…that exceeding the speed of light “distorts” the results?
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Darryl1958
Guest
What scientific measurement exists that measures the value of something?
How can the worth of a human life be measured, or where the good lies?
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Exalt
Guest
Isn’t that a question that Catholicism should answer for itself?
I mean, Catholicism makes some claims about the world, like the existence of an omnipotent creator that spoke with ancient peoples and supernaturally interacts with the world today; like the existence of a sort of supernatural realm with other creatures who interacts with us (angels to help us or demons to hurt us); like the existence of some form of continued individual existence after one’s death; like the idea of a man living a couple thousand years ago who died and then came back from the dead; like the idea that some kind of continued supernatural relationship with this aforementioned man can possibly result in a more favorable afterlife than otherwise. These are just a handful of the many supernatural claims made by Catholicism, and they are incredibly bold, audacious claims. Isn’t it up to Catholics to come up with convincing evidence to demonstrate the reality of these things?
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Exalt
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Hopefully this doesn’t come off as condescending, but you do understand that a willingness to revise theories is actually a *good *thing right? I mean, Einstein’s theories have undergone hundreds of tests. And this is done on purpose by scientists who feel pretty sure that Einstein’s theories are right, but they want to disprove it anyway. And this is a fundamental principle of scientific thinking: Come up with a good theory. Make it better by trying to prove it wrong and failing. And if you do prove it wrong, throw away the old theory and come up with a better one. That’s how you get to better knowledge of the world and how it works.
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Exalt
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Estesbob, you continue to confuse me.
One the one hand, you say that the faithful require no explanation and that there is nothing you can show me that can “prove” Catholicism, and on the other hand you say you see evidence everywhere you look.
I’m confused by the contradiction here. Do you believe that Catholicism has sufficient evidence for a scientific minded individual like myself to believe in it, or not?
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estesbob
Guest
I see-you don’t- your loss
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Exalt
Guest
Okay. Thanks for the discussion. I really appreciate it.
And I hope that we’ve learned something from this exchange. I suspect that there are many people like myself who have had the same sorts of questions I’ve asked, received the same answers you’ve given, and as a response many of us have parted with our beliefs in the supernatural as a result.
Hopefully I’ve been an interesting conversationalist for you.
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estesbob
Guest
It was indeed an interesting discussion. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)utOkay. Thanks for the discussion. I really appreciate it.
And I hope that we’ve learned something from this exchange. I suspect that there are many people like myself who have had the same sorts of questions I’ve asked, received the same answers you’ve given, and as a response many of us have parted with our beliefs in the supernatural as a result.
Hopefully I’ve been an interesting conversationalist for you.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Polite is good.
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thenobes
Guest
Quite right. Bell’s Theorem justifies and supports “spooky action at a distance” © (instant communication betwen separated photon pairs).
Ok I don’t understand it. But it really exists!!
peace
steve
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ricmat
Guest
Oh my. It’s our fault that Exalt and others have lost belief in God, because we didn’t provide acceptable scientific answers. I think he’s trying to make us feel bad.
Exalt, you mentioned having a degree in religious studies. That tells me that you were drawn to know more about God. Who called you? Why did you go there?
Why did you get diverted by the requirement for scientific (i.e. better) knowledge?
There are zillions of excuses for not believing in God, or saying that God doesn’t love me, or that if God exists, he would hit me over the head with a 2x4 to get my attention, yada, yada.
You’ve set up science as the ultimate prosecutor, jury, and judge for all you believe (or so it seems). It is said that we become what we worship. We worship God, who is love, who IS existence. And we hope to become one with God and just like him. And rather, it seems that you worship science - cold, lifeless, mechanical. Is it your desire to love and be loved, to see and create beautiful things, to give and receive joy? If so, science will not give it to you, because God is the source of these things, and the reason we pursue them is because we wish to find and be reconciled with their creator.
Science is cool. I designed a lot of cool stuff. Science is useful in many ways. But what you seek is beyond science.
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Exalt
Guest
I do indeed have a degree in Religious Studies, and from a Catholic university in fact. At one time, I would indeed have answered that I became a Religious Studies major to learn more about Christianity, which I believed was true.
It’s important to note that I’ve always been devoted to the truth – to objective reality, regardless of how it makes me feel. I’ll take the cold, hard truth over a pleasant lie any day. Fantasy has never pleased me. It’s a greater skill to be happy with reality than to get better at making up fantasies for myself, I think (and have always thought).
So, at one time I believed in supernatural things because I thought they were true. Later, there came a time when I realized that I simply did not have enough evidence to continue believing in the Christian supernatural worldview, and ceased my belief – but not until an exhaustive examination of the evidence at hand.
P.S., The word “worship” doesn’t really apply to me, because I don’t really worship anything anymore. That stopped when I stopped being a Christian. I think worship only applies to someone who is giving reverence to something that he or she thinks is, in some sense, divine. I don’t hold anything as divine, so the word really shouldn’t apply to me.
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Robert_Bay
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MODERATOR NOTICE
Please return to the topic of the original post
Please return to the topic of the original post
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rlg94086
Guest
Having been where Exalt is, I agree completely with you. Hopefully, he’ll figure it out someday. He seems to be smart.
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whitecrayon
Guest
scientific knowledge can help us understand the world around us, and thereby describe, predict, and control ourselves and our universe. religious knowledge can bring us closer to god and christ, and thereby know deeper love, hope, faith, truth, mercy, joy, forgiveness, etc… just my thoughts. does anyone agree or disagree?
whitecrayon
whitecrayon
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Protector
Guest
Only in as much as it is not possible for us, to control…“our Universe.”
Protector.
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carn
Guest
Unfortunately nobody seems involved in producing this news has talked to people working in the field. The sentence “Damn, we’ve got Tachyons in the data.” is voiced very often. (Tachyons name for hypothetical faster than light particles) Normally this is never published, instead one reanalyzes the data, corrects some errors and the tachyons are no longer there.
Here the most likely explanation is, that the error is very difficult or impossible to find and to correct. Therefore they publish so other groups/experiments do similar experiments or analyze the same data. Because even if you cannot find the error, someone else analyzing or measuring the same stuff will make the error in a different way resulting in a change of results.
Only when other groups report the same results, this would be as important as people currently make it. Otherwise its just buisieness as usual, you make errors, can’t find them and ask others for help.
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