Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern

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matt1985 said:
I don’t see why it is written in stone that an object can’t travel faster than the speed of light.
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No its not written in stone. Its just confirmed by hundreds or maybe thousands of experiments. Dont know whether that is as good as written in stone.
matt1985 said:
Just because Einstein said this doesn’t mean it is true. He did not have the technology we have today.
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Its a matter of constant speed of light. Think it this way:

A throws a ball while on a moving train in direction of the train travelling. A measures from his point of view the speed of the ball to be 1 km/s. (Forget about friction for the time being.)
B observes the train with A moving relative to himself with a speed of 0.1 km/s. What speed will the ball have from Bs point of view?

Roughly 0.1+1=1.1 km/s, after all it moves faster than the train in the same direction.

Now all experiments show, that the speed of light is constant independent of relative mesurement position.

So next A emits a beam of light in direction of train movement. A measures the speed to be 300000 km/s.
What speed wil B measure?
Our instinct tells us, B will measure the light beam to have a speed of 0.0001+300000=300000.0001 km/s.But thats not what all experiments show. All experiments show, that B will measure the speed of the light beam to be the exactly same 300000 km/s.

What does that mean?

Simply adding the speeds to determine the speed the speed B will observe is wrong. The mathematical formula that transforms the speed that A measures into the speed that B measures must confirm one condition: What moves with speed 300000 km/s from As point of view, must move with the same speed from Bs point of view.

The rest is simple mathematics.

And shows that everything with a mass, will have its mass increased if approaching the speed of light, with the mass being infinite in case of reaching speed of light. Since the only known method to accelerate anything, is applying a force and the force is f=mass*a, the necessary force to accelerate is also increasing towards infinity when approaching the speed of light.
matt1985 said:
I’m curious as to what this means to say if we wanted to open a portal from here to mars or the moon. I wonder if that type of “stargage” like travel is possible.
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As moving through shortcuts would not require moving faster than light, shortcuts would allow getting somewhere faster than light, which travels along the normal route. But nobody has a good idea, how to create such shortcuts. The only somewhat serious speculation i heard of, was done by some crazy nasa guys and they suggested, that if you could create a black hole of 2-3 times sun mass in a few hundred meter distance to your spaceship, you could create such ashortcut, that somehow travels with you arond, allowing to reach far star systems in short time. Problem is, without the means to create such black holes, we cannot know.
 
carn said:
The type or absence of material between cern and gran sasso cannot effect the measurement.

Its only important, that the difference between cern and gran sasso is correctly measured. What is in between is irrelevant for speed determination.

have to correct that:
Its not important as long as things with small density are between cern and gran sasso, a large black hole between cern and gran sasso would effect the measurement as it effects the distance, but we would have noticed something like that.:cool:
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Hi, carn,

Thank you.

Actually, my mind was on photons (ie C) being slowed by material and thought the same principal would apply to neutrinos. But, I realize now, that photons without mass do not compare to neutrinos with mass.

Thank you, for your reply.

God loves you,
Don
 
Physics has got to be the weirdest science, particles without mass, and strings withoutwidth.
But if this neutrino actually did reach light speed ++ and its mass became infinite++, wouldn’t that be enough to have generated a black hole?

Anyone notice if an Alp or two that was there before has disappeared lately?
 
A subatomic particle is challenging the very core of modern physics, after scientists recorded it travelling faster than the speed of light.

According to Albert Einstein’s special theory of relativity, which spawned the E=MC2 equation, light is the last word in speed, but neutrinos have now been recorded travelling even faster.

independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-break-speed-of-light-ndash-and-einsteins-laws-of-physics-2359568.html

Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the international group of researchers, said that measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from CERN near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done.
“We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing,” he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently."http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8782895/CERN-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light.html
 
This news was released by CERN in order to ask other scientists to figure out if they have made a mistake. That is the most likely explanation. If not, it’s re-write the textbooks time!
 
Ya thats science for you always changing. Not like at Church thats been here 2000 Years unchanged in its basic Laws and Doctrine.
 
Matthewmatt said:
Ya thats science for you always changing. Not like at Church thats been here 2000 Years unchanged in its basic Laws and Doctrine.
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A monumental finding, to be sure. But, after all, discovery and change are the very soul of science, which is designed to revise or discard its old theories in the face of emerging evidence to the contrary.
 
Like no one bothered to measure the speed of neutrinos before this?
 
ProVobis said:
Like no one bothered to measure the speed of neutrinos before this?
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Maybe it was downhill this time.🙂

I did read that it went from Switzerland to Italy. Now, to say nothing negative about the ladies in Switzerland, let alone lady neutrinos, but simply in the abstract, if I was in Switzerland, and if I fancied the ladies, I think I would go to Italy fairly quickly as well. Reminds me of the old joke about European heaven and European hell.

European heaven is where:
The police are British
The auto mechanics are German
The cooks are French
The lovers are Italian
And it’s all run by the Swiss.

European hell is where:
The cooks are British
The police are German
The auto mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
And it’s all run by the Italians.

Now you all can go back and talk science and I’ll leave you alone.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Maybe it was downhill this time.🙂

I did read that it went from Switzerland to Italy. Now, to say nothing negative about the ladies in Switzerland, let alone lady neutrinos, but simply in the abstract, if I was in Switzerland, and if I fancied the ladies, I think I would go to Italy fairly quickly as well. Reminds me of the old joke about European heaven and European hell.

European heaven is where:
The police are British
The auto mechanics are German
The cooks are French
The lovers are Italian
And it’s all run by the Swiss.

European hell is where:
The cooks are British
The police are German
The auto mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
And it’s all run by the Italians.

Now you all can go back and talk science and I’ll leave you alone.
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Ha, ha, ha. Thank you for the laughter. 🙂

Hey, I was just thinking…😛 this means that a lot of calculations are wrong. I remember sometime ago a star went nova (exploded) and physicists calculated the time the neutrinos would reach earth taking into account the speed of light and that the neutrinos would arrive slower than, now that we know they travel faster than light, than they actually did.

What does this new finding all mean? What is energy now then?
 
Ridgerunner said:
I did read that it went from Switzerland to Italy. Now, to say nothing negative about the ladies in Switzerland, let alone lady neutrinos, but simply in the abstract, if I was in Switzerland, and if I fancied the ladies, I think I would go to Italy fairly quickly as well.
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That may explain global warming as well. 😃
 
Is this (if true) supposed to mean then that time travel is possible? Though I can’t imagin it would be that useful, since if I recall correctly, even if you could go faster than light, you could only travel in time one direction; that is, you could go to Alpha Centauri and back in a few years only to find you’ve “travelled” to the future, and it has been several millenia on earth. Travelling back in time I thought was even theoretically impossible.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Is this (if true) supposed to mean then that time travel is possible? Though I can’t imagin it would be that useful, since if I recall correctly, even if you could go faster than light, you could only travel in time one direction; that is, you could go to Alpha Centauri and back in a few years only to find you’ve “travelled” to the future, and it has been several millenia on earth. Travelling back in time I thought was even theoretically impossible.
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I would not make any reservations for time travel just yet. Even if the results are correct, it took an enormous machine to accellerate a few neutrinos to that velocity. To move a spaceship on a journey of several years to that speed would require more energy than the sun produces. We can’t import that much energy even from OPEC.😉

Also how do you stop a large object with that much velocity?
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Reverse thrust.

lol

I have no idea, interesting question though.
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I know how you stop a neutrino travelling at the velocity of light. You let it run into something so you can measure it. There is no other way. For a space ship 6 light years away, State Farm would never get the documentation to pay off the claim.
 
Matthewmatt said:
Ya thats science for you always changing. Not like at Church thats been here 2000 Years unchanged in its basic Laws and Doctrine.
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The word “science” is derived from the Latin “scientia”, meaning “knowledge.” Unless you think that humans have, in their short history, already discovered all there is to know, then of course, science is “always changing”. There are new discoveries made constantly.

And while essential Church doctrine is unchanging, Church laws can, indeed, change.
 
dixieagle said:
And while essential Church doctrine is unchanging, Church laws can, indeed, change.
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Hi, dixieagle,

The only thing is, I believe that God put His Church here to change the world, not to be changed by the world.

God loves you,
Don
 
dixieagle said:
And while essential Church doctrine is unchanging, Church laws can, indeed, change.
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The fact that Church Dogmas are unchanging means that we can confidently build on them, knowing that theyll never come crashing down around our ears. Theres no fear that a “discovery” made by Fr Hans Kung (:eek:) or whomever will force the Church to go back to “Square One”.
Snakes and Ladders is a game for scientists: just ask Sir Isaac Newton.
 
Guess I’ve always been a science fiction enthusiast to a degree.

But in a world where illusion meets reality as we know it I don’t have a big problem seeing Einstein’s Laws on physics and his “Theory of Relativity” being surpassed or the evident possibility’s of the speed of light being surpassed.

All the complexities of Space and Time are in God’s domain.

Time Travel as someone suggested is still way too far fetched for me.

I’ve always wondered if human science in the far distant future would ever find a plausible sophisticated technology that would enable the control of gravity as a way propelling space ships through the gravity eddy’s between one star system to another. Of course this is all science fiction now. But it is an interesting notion.
 
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