Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern

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Guess I’ve always been a science fiction enthusiast to a degree.

But in a world where illusion meets reality as we know it I don’t have a big problem seeing Einstein’s Laws on physics and his “Theory of Relativity” being surpassed or the evident possibility’s of the speed of light being surpassed.

All the complexities of Space and Time are in God’s domain.

Time Travel as someone suggested is still way too far fetched for me.

I’ve always wondered if human science in the far distant future would ever find a plausible sophisticated technology that would enable the control of gravity as a way propelling space ships through the gravity eddy’s between one star system to another. Of course this is all science fiction now. But it is an interesting notion.
Good morning, centurionguard,

I’m a former scifi fan. I now look for Jesus Christ in the fiction I read.

I think the biggest problem with time travel is that any time machine would have to actually be a space/time machine. For example, if I were to relocate only in time to twent four hours ago with a time machine, I would be hanging in interplanetary space, where our Earth had been twenty four hours ago.
Frankly, in a way, transcontinental and transoceanic jets are time machines, when you think about it. 😛 They go from one time and place to another time and place.

God loves you,
Don
 
Trader;8425547] I would not make any reservations for time travel just yet. Even if the results are correct,** it took an enormous machine to accellerate a few neutrinos to that velocity. ** To move a spaceship on a journey of several years to that speed would require more energy than the sun produces. We can’t import that much energy even from OPEC.;).
Can’t help wondering how much suffering could have been alleviated if the money had been channeled through the World’s charities.

Protector.
 
Guess I’ve always been a science fiction enthusiast to a degree.

But in a world where illusion meets reality as we know it I don’t have a big problem seeing Einstein’s Laws on physics and his “Theory of Relativity” being surpassed or the evident possibility’s of the speed of light being surpassed.

All the complexities of Space and Time are in God’s domain.

Time Travel as someone suggested is still way too far fetched for me.

I’ve always wondered if human science in the far distant future would ever find a plausible sophisticated technology that would enable the control of gravity as a way propelling space ships through the gravity eddy’s between one star system to another. Of course this is all science fiction now. But it is an interesting notion.
I don’t believe that time travel is possible. You can’t go into the distant past and change the present.
 
Can’t help wondering how much suffering could have been alleviated if the money had been channeled through the World’s charities.

Protector.
Hi, Protector,

It’s up to each of us, not different governments, to contribute to our churches, local charities, and to the world’s charities, imo.

God loves you,
Don
 
Can’t help wondering how much suffering could have been alleviated if the money had been channeled through the World’s charities.

Protector.
If there is no other purpose than to stimulate science fiction writers, I agree it is a waste of resources.

If science uses a better understanding of the basis of matter and energy to produce things like fusion generated electric power it could be well worth the time and effort to investigate this.
 
Don’t everyone make your reservations for 65,000,000 B.C. yet. Even if it turns out that the neutrinos were traveling faster than light, FTL does not mean backwards in time. A neutrino traveling at c requires a second of positive time to travel 300,000 km. A neutrino traveling at 2c still requires 0.5 second of positive time to travel that same 300,000 km. My previous jokes to the contrary, it will not arrive before it left.
 
Don’t everyone make your reservations for 65,000,000 B.C. yet. Even if it turns out that the neutrinos were traveling faster than light, FTL does not mean backwards in time. A neutrino traveling at c requires a second of positive time to travel 300,000 km. A neutrino traveling at 2c still requires 0.5 second of positive time to travel that same 300,000 km. My previous jokes to the contrary, it will not arrive before it left.
This is correct in so far as the common defintion of “now” is used.

“Now” in physics is defined differently, to say in simple words, what is measurable from your current point of view is “now”.

With this defintion the neutrinos would arrive before they started, when standing at their destination point. They would arrive and then, since they travelled faster than light, you would see how they had been ejected at their source.

From source point of view no arrive before left happens, because you see them when they leave and someties later see, that they reached their target.
 
FWIW, it’s already been established that information can travel faster than light by used certain types of paired particles. Particles, especially those with mass, traveling faster than light is problematic, but may appear from our reference frame if tunneling or some effect occurred.
That’s why it’s called relativity. Relative to what. I can shoot a photon to the west and I can shoot a beam of photon to the east. Relative to each other they should be traveling at twice the speed of light, no? They certainly are in my reference frame, but in reference to each other they travel only at the speed of light, according to the old theory.
 
That’s why it’s called relativity. Relative to what. I can shoot a photon to the west and I can shoot a beam of photon to the east. Relative to each other they should be traveling at twice the speed of light, no? They certainly are in my reference frame, but in reference to each other they travel only at the speed of light, according to the old theory.
They certainly are in my reference frame, but in reference to each other they travel only at the speed of light, according to the old theory.
Old Theories are capable of being surpassed.

There was a time in the last century was it was said virtually impossible to pass the Speed of Sound.

When science speaks of speed whether its theories on light speed or traveling faster than light, its often calculated on a linear basis. Everything in geometric mathematics is linear.

An interesting question would why does light speed or surpassing it have to be linear as satellites calculate distances from stars in a linear manner of speaking?

Now of course this is far fetched theory but why not space travel between the stars on an inter-dimensional plane similar in a sublime way to changing frequencies on a radio.
The capability of changing Present Time and Space into an intermediary sub frequency of existing in Time and Space. Sounds too Star Trekkie for you. Its strictly a far fetched theory. Ya I know I’m just a plain ole Crazy Canuck. 😃
 
When science speaks of speed whether its theories on light speed or traveling faster than light, its often calculated on a linear basis. Everything in geometric mathematics is linear.
Whats wrong with linear maths?
And general relativity is not linear mass and still has light speed limit.
Now of course this is far fetched theory but why not space travel between the stars on an inter-dimensional plane similar in a sublime way to changing frequencies on a radio.
The capability of changing Present Time and Space into an intermediary sub frequency of existing in Time and Space. Sounds too Star Trekkie for you. Its strictly a far fetched theory. Ya I know I’m just a plain ole Crazy Canuck. 😃
As i said, create a few black holes of sun mass or greater and maybe you are in business (if you overcome the minor problems that accompany black holes). But even then you would just take a short cut, but on that short cut you would not surpass the speed of light.

Think about travelling by car, when you take a short cut besides the usual route you sometimes are faster. But you are not faster because your car moves faster but because the distance to travel is reduced. Somebody not knowing about the shortcut might assume that you travelled with a much higher speed than usual, but that is an error.
The same would be true in case of creating shortcuts by doing crazy things with spacetime. You would not travel faster than light, you would just reach the destination faster than the light taking the normal longer path. Any light moving along your short cut would still be faster than you.
 
Whats wrong with linear maths?.
There are many examples of non-linear systems in the physical world.
For example, the Boltzmann transport equation, the Ginzburg-Landau equation, the van der Pol equation, the navier-stokes equations, the KdV equation, etc.
 
Trader;8432321]If there is no other purpose than to stimulate science fiction writers, I agree it is a waste of resources.
If science uses a better understanding of the basis of matter and energy to produce things like fusion generated electric power it could be well worth the time and effort to investigate this.
True! But the same was said about nuclear fission and we all know what a can of worms that was.

Protector.
 
There are many examples of non-linear systems in the physical world.
For example, the Boltzmann transport equation, the Ginzburg-Landau equation, the van der Pol equation, the navier-stokes equations, the KdV equation, etc.
But the point is not whether the math is complicated, but whether it describes the observation. And with speed so far things have been simple.
 
OOPS!!!

technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27260/?ref=rss
Faster-than-Light Neutrino Puzzle Claimed Solved by Special Relativity
Today, Ronald van Elburg at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands makes a convincing argument that he has found the error.
First, let’s review the experiment, which is simple in concept: a measurement of distance and time.
The distance is straightforward. The location of neutrino production at CERN is fairly easy to measure using GPS. The position of the Gran Sasso Laboratory is harder to pin down because it sits under a kilometre-high mountain. Nevertheless, the OPERA team says it has nailed the distance of 730 km to within 20 cm or so.
The time of neutrino flight is harder to measure. The OPERA team says it can accurately gauge the instant when the neutrinos are created and the instant they are detected using clocks at each end.
But the tricky part is keeping the clocks at either end exactly synchronised. The team does this using GPS satellites, which each broadcast a highly accurate time signal from orbit some 20,000km overhead. That introduces a number of extra complications which the team has to take into account, such as the time of travel of the GPS signals to the ground.
But van Elburg says there is one effect that the OPERA team seems to have overlooked: the relativistic motion of the GPS clocks.
It’s easy to think that the motion of the satellites is irrelevant. After all, the radio waves carrying the time signal must travel at the speed of light, regardless of the satellites’ speed.
But there is an additional subtlety. Although the speed of light is does not depend on the the frame of reference, the time of flight does. In this case, there are two frames of reference: the experiment on the ground and the clocks in orbit. If these are moving relative to each other, then this needs to be factored in.
So what is the satellites’ motion with respect to the OPERA experiment? These probes orbit from West to East in a plane inclined at 55 degrees to the equator. Significantly, that’s roughly in line with the neutrino flight path. Their relative motion is then easy to calculate.
So from the point of view of a clock on board a GPS satellite, the positions of the neutrino source and detector are changing. “From the perspective of the clock, the detector is moving towards the source and consequently the distance travelled by the particles as observed from the clock is shorter,” says van Elburg.
By this he means shorter than the distance measured in the reference frame on the ground.
The OPERA team overlooks this because it thinks of the clocks as on the ground not in orbit.
How big is this effect? Van Elburg calculates that it should cause the neutrinos to arrive 32 nanoseconds early. But this must be doubled because the same error occurs at each end of the experiment. So the total correction is 64 nanoseconds, almost exactly what the OPERA team observes.
 
Well that’s a relief. I was beginning to worry about a black hole of infinite weight becoming a bigger Swiss tourist 'draw that than the Matterhorn is.
 
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