St. Boniface Church In San Francisco Lets Homeless People Sleep In Pews

[dshix]

That’s the thing, I don’t see a change in context. Christ is Christ, always was and always will be regardless “where” He is.

I guess I just don’t see this as disrespecful, in fact I see it as the opposite. Offering the space gives respect to our Lord by doing what He tells us to do. Also, for every act of mercy there must be one in need of mercy. One side of the equation imitates Christ in His mercy, the other in His sorrow. This is the story of salvation happening right before our eyes (the offer and acceptance of mercy plus the added bonus of Christ actually being present like in Heaven). I see nothing disrespectful, in fact it imitates Christ in the highest way possible, through works.

This is not well thought out but I hope it makes at least a little sense. Work is over and I’m super sleepy.

Fair enough. If you don’t follow my argument then there’s nothing I can really do about that.

This is my thought: The Church was blessed to be a place to offer Mass, to worship God in the Holy Eucharist, to join with all of Heaven during Mass.

God expects me, at St. Boniface or another church, to follow the proper physical stance and use the proper words of Mass. For prayer, I should follow the proper posture of those in that culture.

It would be disrespectful if I gathered a few items and headed off to the church to sleep today.

Why would I need to sleep there?

That is Key: Why would I need to sleep there?

I see that St. Boniface Church and Gubbio Project have seen that pews that are not being used for the worship of Our Lord can be used without disrespect to God by those who suffer from homelessness.

I assume the priest, bishop, and those with the Gubbio Project have declared what respectfulness must be maintained in order to sleep in the church. They have seen there is a need for a safe place to sleep and they see the church can provide this need.

Sleep is not undignified. The people who are coming to the church to sleep are looking for a place to safely sleep. I do not believe as you do that this is a “glaring fact that it is disrespectful to the Presence of God to do so in the Church”.

I think God sees a difference between me coming into the Church and this homeless person who has been invited by St. Boniface Church to sleep.

I do not see the sleeping homeless person as being disrespectful to Our Lord in His Presence.
I can not imagine Our Lord in Heaven being hurt that the person is asleep in His Presence. God is just and merciful.

So, in a nutshell, the reason we disagree is because I think it is disrespectful for a person to sleep in the Church with GOD present, and you don’t. You think he doesn’t care.

Well, let’s take a look at this.

Sleep is not undignified.

Not so. I already told you why it is, but you didn’t respond to that. If you can prove to me that there is nothing immature or rude about taking a nap at a formal dinner, I’ll accept there is nothing wrong with sleeping in front of the Master of the Universe.

---

The rest of your comments about how we should care for the homeless are good, and I agree. We should care for the homeless, but NOT in the Church, which is the house of God Almighty.

 

[cheezey]

That’s great!

Why would they need to use the Church for sleeping if there is a shelter a few blocks nearby?

Any indication that the shelters are full, as they are almost everywhere? Times are tough everywhere for these people.

 

[dshix]

Any indication that the shelters are full, as they are almost everywhere? Times are tough everywhere for these people.

Ok, so you’ve said my solution doesn’t work, so I’ll put forward another. The parish should open up their hall or other building to let the homeless sleep during the day, if they want.

They should not do so in the Church.

 

[RoseMary131]

That’s why we have shelters. If you want to help someone, send them to a shelter to sleep, don’t let them use God’s house.

Most shelters do not allow anyone to stay there during the day.

"The nonprofit known as the Gubbio Project partners with the Roman Catholic church to let the city’s homeless sleep on its pews during daylight hours, even during Mass, and provides a host of services to hundreds of those who are forced to leave when homeless shelters close in the morning, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. "
huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/st-boniface-church-san-francisco_n_2592275.html?ir=Religion&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

 

[cheezey]

Fair enough. If you don’t follow my argument then there’s nothing I can really do about that.

So, in a nutshell, the reason we disagree is because I think it is disrespectful for a person to sleep in the Church with GOD present, and you don’t. You think he doesn’t care.

Well, let’s take a look at a few things.

Not so. I already told you why it is, but you didn’t respond to that. If you can prove to me that there is nothing immature or rude about taking a nap at a formal dinner, I’ll accept there is nothing wrong with sleeping in front of the Master of the Universe.

---

The rest of your comments about how we should care for the homeless are good, and I agree. We should care for the homeless, but NOT in the Church, which is the house of God Almighty.

There a difference between those who go to Church specifically for Mass, then disrespectfully fall asleep, and those who are being invited to safely sleep with the confines of the Church.

 

[cheezey]

Most shelters do not allow anyone to stay there during the day.

"The nonprofit known as the Gubbio Project partners with the Roman Catholic church to let the city’s homeless sleep on its pews during daylight hours, even during Mass, and provides a host of services to hundreds of those who are forced to leave when homeless shelters close in the morning, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. "
huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/st-boniface-church-san-francisco_n_2592275.html?ir=Religion&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

just a reminder…

 

[NoliteTimere]

You are addressing the provision of a place to sleep for people, which is a good things, but you are ignoring the glaring fact that it is disrespectful to the Presence of God to do so in the Church. What is your answer to this?

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” Mt 11:28

There’s nothing in the article that says the homeless are unaware of where they are. They may have been told that they can rest easy knowing that they are now in Christ’s presence.

 

[dshix]

There a difference between those who go to Church specifically for Mass, then disrespectfully fall asleep, and those who are being invited to safely sleep with the confines of the Church.

Permit me to rephrase that.

There a difference between those who go to Church specifically for Mass, then accidentally fall asleep, and those who are being invited to disrespectfully sleep with the confines of the Church.

It is not disrespectful to fall asleep in the Church out of pure exhaustion because of no sleep or hard work. I’d say that’s just a mistake, which is rather embarrassing, but not bad.

To go into the Church for the purpose of intentionally sleeping is disrespectful.

 

[dshix]

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” Mt 11:28

There’s nothing in the article that says the homeless are unaware of where they are. They may have been told that they can rest easy knowing that they are now in Christ’s presence.

I’m getting a little frustrated at giving the same answers to the same people repeatedly, so please read the thread, if you have time.

The verse you quoted is out of context; it is talking about the weary of sin and the relief of God’s grace, not about sleeping in a Church.

 

[dshix]

RoseMary131;10309019:

Most shelters do not allow anyone to stay there during the day.

"The nonprofit known as the Gubbio Project partners with the Roman Catholic church to let the city’s homeless sleep on its pews during daylight hours, even during Mass, and provides a host of services to hundreds of those who are forced to leave when homeless shelters close in the morning, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. "

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/st-boniface-church-san-francisco_n_2592275.html?ir=Religion&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008just a reminder…

Interesting. I wonder what the people are doing sleeping during the day…

They aren’t owls, are they?

 

[catholicanne]

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” Mt 11:28

There’s nothing in the article that says the homeless are unaware of where they are. They may have been told that they can rest easy knowing that they are now in Christ’s presence.

 

[RoseMary131]

Not so. I already told you why it is, but you didn’t respond to that. If you can prove to me that there is nothing immature or rude about taking a nap at a formal dinner, I’ll accept there is nothing wrong with sleeping in front of the Master of the Universe.

Computer time is up for now. I will respond later.

Peace.

 

[dshix]

Out of context…

 

[dshix]

Computer time is up for now. I will respond later.

Peace.

Fair enough. And please respond to that, in particular.

 

[catholicanne]

Out of context…

I have been reading your remarks and all I can say is that I will pray for you. I really do hope that you never find yourself homeless. May God bless you and your family.

:byzsoc:

 

[cheezey]

Permit me to rephrase that.

There a difference between those who go to Church specifically for Mass, then accidentally fall asleep, and those who are being invited to disrespectfully sleep with the confines of the Church.

It is not disrespectful to fall asleep in the Church out of pure exhaustion because of no sleep or hard work. I’d say that’s just a mistake, which is rather embarrassing, but not bad.

To go into the Church for the purpose of intentionally sleeping is disrespectful.

To go into the Church for the purpose of intentional and much needed sleep by compassionate invitation is understandable and merciful.

 

[dshix]

I have been reading your remarks and all I can say is that I will pray for you. I really do hope that you never find yourself homeless. May God bless you and your family.

:byzsoc:

Thanks, but please don’t patronize me. If I were an average person, I’d get angry at that remark, but I know your tactics rather too well. If you want to help me, please refute my statements and prove me wrong.

 

[dshix]

To go into the Church for the purpose of intentional and much needed sleep by compassionate invitation is understandable and merciful.

I’ve already stated why sleep in the Church is disrespectful, and the many reasons why we should not offer people to sleep in the Church, what more do you want?

I contend that it may be understanding and merciful, but also ignorant and disrespectful.

 

[2HeartsSlave]

How awesome! Now our Lord has people to keep Him company all night long! I hope they’ve been taught how to genuflect!

 

[Another_Mary]

There’s nothing in the article that says the homeless are unaware of where they are. They may have been told that they can rest easy knowing that they are now in Christ’s presence.

I posted a link up-topic to an interview on the SF Archdiocese radio program. In it, one of the people working in the project basically said that it is good that the people know that they are just as important as what is going on at the altar.

Just so ya know…I believe my own parish has an area close to the restrooms (but not in the church) where homeless can sleep at night. I do not even have a problem with the Gubbio project feeding the people and offering them a secure place to sleep–I commend them. But if its going to be inside the church, people (homeless or project workers) should have respect for Our Lord.