St. Boniface Church In San Francisco Lets Homeless People Sleep In Pews

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Another_Mary said:
I posted a link up-topic to an interview on the SF Archdiocese radio program. In it, one of the people working in the project basically said that it is good that the people know that they are just as important as what is going on at the altar.

Just so ya know…I believe my own parish has an area close to the restrooms (but not in the church) where homeless can sleep at night. I do not even have a problem with the Gubbio project feeding the people and offering them a secure place to sleep–I commend them. But if its going to be inside the church, people (homeless or project workers) should have respect for Our Lord. :signofcross:
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👍
 
dshix said:
That’s why we have shelters. :rolleyes: If you want to help someone, send them to a shelter to sleep, don’t let them use God’s house.
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I find it difficult to think that Jesus would expect care of the poor, homeless, sick and abandoned from his followers, but would not do so himself and in his own house.

*“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’* (Matt 25:34-46)

He equates the “least of these brothers” to himself, so the question to be answered is whether letting these homeless individuals into the Church amounts to letting Jesus, himself, stay.

Another point to consider is whether the offence being taken as to whether the ‘dignity’ of Christ present in the Eucharist is at stake might, rather, be discomfort over an illusion of what real dignity or, possibly, indignity, is all about.

*My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?*(James 2:1-7)

Admittedly, it might be claimed that anyone, whether rich or poor, who sleeps during a services ought to be treated equally, but that would be failing to realize, perhaps, the burden carried by homelessness that might be good reason for allowances to be made here.

Jesus also gave warnings about “judging by appearances.” Many of these homeless folk have had heavy and burdensome crosses to bear in their lives. It is not clear to me that allowing them some rest or sleep entails dishonor to Christ just as allowing a broken and weary Jesus on his way to Calvary to have rest in a Church would be sacreligious in the least.

To assume we know something about the hearts of these individuals and whether they would bring insult to God by sleeping in the pews would be, I think, presumptuous, at least on my part. I am not willing to pit the internal state of my soul while I stood at my best erect posture against that of any of those reclined individuals. To presume that my upright posture and alert demeanor is any more pleasing to God than the more relaxed position of any of those sleeping in the pews is a presumption I am unwilling to make.

From St. Paul:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:1-8)
 
Peter_Plato said:
I find it difficult to think that Jesus would expect care of the poor, homeless, sick and abandoned from his followers, but would not do so himself and in his own house.

*“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me*.’ (Matt 25:34-46)

He equates the “least of these brothers” to himself, so the question to be answered is whether letting these homeless individuals into the Church amounts to letting Jesus, himself, stay.

Another point to consider is whether the offence being taken as to whether the ‘dignity’ of Christ present in the Eucharist is at stake might, rather, be discomfort over an illusion of what real dignity or, possibly, indignity, is all about.

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?(James 2:1-7)

Admittedly, it might be claimed that anyone, whether rich or poor, who sleeps during a services ought to be treated equally, but that would be failing to realize, perhaps, the burden carried by homelessness that might be good reason for allowances to be made here.

Jesus also gave warnings about “judging by appearances.” Many of these homeless folk have had heavy and burdensome crosses to bear in their lives. It is not clear to me that allowing them some rest or sleep entails dishonor to Christ just as allowing a broken and weary Jesus on his way to Calvary to have rest in a Church would be sacreligious in the least.

To assume we know something about the hearts of these individuals and whether they would bring insult to God by sleeping in the pews would be, I think, presumptuous, at least on my part. I am not willing to pit the internal state of my soul while I stood at my best erect posture against that of any of those reclined individuals. To presume that my upright posture and alert demeanor is any more pleasing to God than the more relaxed position of any of those sleeping in the pews is a presumption I am unwilling to make.

From St. Paul:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:1-8)
Click to expand...
Thank you for such a detailed post. I like it when people really and truly try to have a discussion.

However, I think you probably didn’t read the whole thread. This isn’t your fault, as you probably don’t have the time. Almost all of my posts are not addressing the actual homeless people, but the level of dis-respectfulness which is displayed when anyone sleeps in the Church. I actually am an advocate for helping the poor, but I draw the line at disrespecting God. If you want to see what I have said before on this, look back a few pages.
 
Peter_Plato said:
I find it difficult to think that Jesus would expect care of the poor, homeless, sick and abandoned from his followers, but would not do so himself and in his own house.

*“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me*.’ (Matt 25:34-46)

He equates the “least of these brothers” to himself, so the question to be answered is whether letting these homeless individuals into the Church amounts to letting Jesus, himself, stay.

Another point to consider is whether the offence being taken as to whether the ‘dignity’ of Christ present in the Eucharist is at stake might, rather, be discomfort over an illusion of what real dignity or, possibly, indignity, is all about.

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?(James 2:1-7)

Admittedly, it might be claimed that anyone, whether rich or poor, who sleeps during a services ought to be treated equally, but that would be failing to realize, perhaps, the burden carried by homelessness that might be good reason for allowances to be made here.

Jesus also gave warnings about “judging by appearances.” Many of these homeless folk have had heavy and burdensome crosses to bear in their lives. It is not clear to me that allowing them some rest or sleep entails dishonor to Christ just as allowing a broken and weary Jesus on his way to Calvary to have rest in a Church would be sacreligious in the least.

To assume we know something about the hearts of these individuals and whether they would bring insult to God by sleeping in the pews would be, I think, presumptuous, at least on my part. I am not willing to pit the internal state of my soul while I stood at my best erect posture against that of any of those reclined individuals. To presume that my upright posture and alert demeanor is any more pleasing to God than the more relaxed position of any of those sleeping in the pews is a presumption I am unwilling to make.

From St. Paul:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:1-8)
Click to expand...
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
Peter_Plato said:
I find it difficult to think that Jesus would expect care of the poor, homeless, sick and abandoned from his followers, but would not do so himself and in his own house.

*“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me*.’ (Matt 25:34-46)

He equates the “least of these brothers” to himself, so the question to be answered is whether letting these homeless individuals into the Church amounts to letting Jesus, himself, stay.

Another point to consider is whether the offence being taken as to whether the ‘dignity’ of Christ present in the Eucharist is at stake might, rather, be discomfort over an illusion of what real dignity or, possibly, indignity, is all about.

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?(James 2:1-7)

Admittedly, it might be claimed that anyone, whether rich or poor, who sleeps during a services ought to be treated equally, but that would be failing to realize, perhaps, the burden carried by homelessness that might be good reason for allowances to be made here.

Jesus also gave warnings about “judging by appearances.” Many of these homeless folk have had heavy and burdensome crosses to bear in their lives. It is not clear to me that allowing them some rest or sleep entails dishonor to Christ just as allowing a broken and weary Jesus on his way to Calvary to have rest in a Church would be sacreligious in the least.

To assume we know something about the hearts of these individuals and whether they would bring insult to God by sleeping in the pews would be, I think, presumptuous, at least on my part. I am not willing to pit the internal state of my soul while I stood at my best erect posture against that of any of those reclined individuals. To presume that my upright posture and alert demeanor is any more pleasing to God than the more relaxed position of any of those sleeping in the pews is a presumption I am unwilling to make.

From St. Paul:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:1-8)
Click to expand...
A fantastic response.
 
My thing would be:

Build a seperate building adjacent to the Parish, so that the Homeless can have a place to stay, and at the same time, if they so wish, can go across to the Church for prayer. The plight of the Homeless is near and dear to me. If I were Pastor, I would have a special building built right next to the Church. Then, I would also use the opportunity to administer the Sacrament to those of them that are Homeless and willing to recieve them. I would also run a catechisis course specifically for them. That would be my course of action! 👍
 
If I lived in that area, and that invitation came to me, I’d praise The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit yet again and bless the ones who offered.
 
mymamamary said:
My thing would be:

Build a seperate building adjacent to the Parish, so that the Homeless can have a place to stay, and at the same time, if they so wish, can go across to the Church for prayer.
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That would be great and may it happen.
What about now, though? The problem is now…
 
cheezey said:
If I lived in that area, and that invitation came to me, I’d praise The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit yet again and bless the ones who offered.
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Forgive me for pushing it, but do you really even care about respect to the Blessed Sacrament? I’ve given a lot of reasons why it wouldn’t be proper or respectful to sleep there, but they seem to have gone in one ear and out the other.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother…
 
cheezey said:
That would be great and may it happen.
What about now, though? The problem is now…
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If they wish to use the Parish, then at least remove Our LORD. Repose HIM at the Rectory. OR announce to the Homeless that Holy MASS is taking place, or EUCHARISTIC ADORATION, and that they are more than welcome to participate (Provided they are in a State of Grace when it comes time for HOLY COMMUNION), however sleeping is discouraged and then tell them to come back in an hour or so. OR, if I was pastor and provided the rectory is big enough…

Bring them into the rectory. If I was Pastor. Let them sleep at the Rectory provided they don’t vandalise or steal.
 
mymamamary said:
If they wish to use the Parish, then at least remove Our LORD. Repose HIM at the Rectory. OR announce to the Homeless that Holy MASS is taking place, or EUCHARISTIC ADORATION, and that they are more than welcome to participate (Provided they are in a State of Grace when it comes time for HOLY COMMUNION), however sleeping is discouraged and then tell them to come back in an hour or so. OR, if I was pastor and provided the rectory is big enough…

Bring them into the rectory. If I was Pastor. Let them sleep at the Rectory provided they don’t vandalise or steal.
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Another voice of reason! :clapping:
 
Or, get the Catholic Homeless involved. Hold a EUCHARISTIC Procession for them, teach them how to Altar Serve (Its not hard in the Novus Ordo), or something to do with the Parish. I would say:

Sleep at the rectory, but on tuesdays, I request your help in mopping the floors, or cleaning the Statues, or dusting, or Altar Serving at HOLY MASS etc…

Most rectory’s especially in cities, tend to be big, and unless its adjacent to a Cathedral or a large parish, is usually only occupied by 1 or 2 Priests. I wouldn’t mind giving a room or two to the Homeless. Clean them up, put them in fresh clothes, let them sleep there, and they could help run the Parish, giving them an idea of how finances or office work operate. They could even get employed as Parish Secretary if they get the hang of it.

In short, there are A LOT of opportunities and ways to caretake the Homeless in a Parish setting and still mantain Respect and reverence for Our EUCHARISTIC LORD. It’s so wonderful to see a Priest that is zealous for the Faith, Our EUCHARISTIC LORD and HIS Blessed Mother, and at the same time, caring for the least of GODS Children. Bl. Mother Teresa, although not a male or a Priest, certainly embodied this ideal.

Bl. Mother Teresa, pray for us!!!
 
Peter_Plato said:
I find it difficult to think that Jesus would expect care of the poor, homeless, sick and abandoned from his followers, but would not do so himself and in his own house.

*“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me*.’ (Matt 25:34-46)

He equates the “least of these brothers” to himself, so the question to be answered is whether letting these homeless individuals into the Church amounts to letting Jesus, himself, stay.

Another point to consider is whether the offence being taken as to whether the ‘dignity’ of Christ present in the Eucharist is at stake might, rather, be discomfort over an illusion of what real dignity or, possibly, indignity, is all about.

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?(James 2:1-7)

Admittedly, it might be claimed that anyone, whether rich or poor, who sleeps during a services ought to be treated equally, but that would be failing to realize, perhaps, the burden carried by homelessness that might be good reason for allowances to be made here.

Jesus also gave warnings about “judging by appearances.” Many of these homeless folk have had heavy and burdensome crosses to bear in their lives. It is not clear to me that allowing them some rest or sleep entails dishonor to Christ just as allowing a broken and weary Jesus on his way to Calvary to have rest in a Church would be sacreligious in the least.

To assume we know something about the hearts of these individuals and whether they would bring insult to God by sleeping in the pews would be, I think, presumptuous, at least on my part. I am not willing to pit the internal state of my soul while I stood at my best erect posture against that of any of those reclined individuals. To presume that my upright posture and alert demeanor is any more pleasing to God than the more relaxed position of any of those sleeping in the pews is a presumption I am unwilling to make.

From St. Paul:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:1-8)
Click to expand...
👍
 
mymamamary said:
My thing would be:

Build a seperate building adjacent to the Parish, so that the Homeless can have a place to stay, and at the same time, if they so wish, can go across to the Church for prayer. The plight of the Homeless is near and dear to me. If I were Pastor, I would have a special building built right next to the Church. Then, I would also use the opportunity to administer the Sacrament to those of them that are Homeless and willing to recieve them. I would also run a catechisis course specifically for them. That would be my course of action! 👍
Click to expand...
If you had the money…
 
dshix said:
Thank you for such a detailed post. I like it when people really and truly try to have a discussion.

However, I think you probably didn’t read the whole thread. This isn’t your fault, as you probably don’t have the time. Almost all of my posts are not addressing the actual homeless people, but the level of dis-respectfulness which is displayed when anyone sleeps in the Church. I actually am an advocate for helping the poor, but I draw the line at disrespecting God. If you want to see what I have said before on this, look back a few pages.
Click to expand...
Actually, I did read the entire thread. I just disagree that the question of whether to let a group of homeless individuals stay in God’s house during Mass is not one that ought to be decided by you or I. The best that can be hoped for is for those responsible for this program to base their decisions on what God, through the Holy Spirit, guides them to do.

As “sensible” and prudential human beings it is rather a convenient and somewhat uninspired option for the Church to simply not be involved in this way or build a special “place” for this human fallout from our modern western culture, but my deepest sense is that this is precisely the kind of audacious and authentically Spirit-moved action that we are called to. The alternative smacks too much of human reticence and tentative compromise that turns a God-starved world to other sources for nourishment.

I really do not want to make this a confrontational stance, I just disagree with you on this. On the other hand, I recognize the kind of courage required to take the opposite position in a culture that tends towards secular humanism where anything with reference to acknowledging God for his own sake is demeaned. You have to admit that the Parish involved is doing something extraordinary and even inspiring, no?
 
Peter_Plato said:
Actually, I did read the entire thread. I just disagree that the question of whether to let a group of homeless individuals stay in God’s house during Mass is not one that ought to be decided by you or I. The best that can be hoped for is for those responsible for this program to base their decisions on what God, through the Holy Spirit, guides them to do.

As “sensible” and prudential human beings it is rather a convenient and somewhat uninspired option for the Church to simply not be involved in this way or build a special “place” for this human fallout from our modern western culture, but my deepest sense is that this is precisely the kind of audacious and authentically Spirit-moved action that we are called to. The alternative smacks too much of human reticence and tentative compromise that turns a God-starved world to other sources for nourishment.

I really do not want to make this a confrontational stance, I just disagree with you on this. On the other hand, I recognize the kind of courage required to take the opposite position in a culture that tends towards secular humanism where anything with reference to acknowledging God for his own sake is demeaned. You have to admit that the Parish involved is doing something extraordinary and even inspiring, no?
Click to expand...
So, then, you do not care how irreverent or disrespectful it is to the Blessed Sacrament? Does that thought cross your mind?

I agree that this effort by the parish is laudable, but to let people sleep IN the Church is disrespectful.
 
dshix said:
So, then, you do not care how irreverent or disrespectful it is to the Blessed Sacrament? Does that thought cross your mind?
Click to expand...
There are a great many “thoughts” that cross my mind each day which makes me truly question the authority I might conjure up in my own mind about my right to determine who should or should not attend a Mass.

Even based upon the “externals” or apparently obvious behaviours of some who attend Mass (which I categorically admit are founded upon a terribly unqualified assessment on my part) there come to mind numerous behaviours that could be perceived as more objectionable than someone quietly napping because of an authentic need for rest. I realize that pointing out other wrongs does not demonstrate right in this case, but if we are about the business of cleaning house of irreverent behaviours I am not clear we should begin with sleeping by the tired and homeless as the most pressing disrespectful action.
 
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