St. Louis Archbishop warns of excommunication over women's ordination

[Servulus]

Synagogue’s hospitality rankles church
By CHERYL WITTENAUER, Associated Press Writer Sat Nov 10, 8:14 AM ET

ST. LOUIS - …“and a pledge to never again partner with the congregation.”

Nothing in the Wittenauer article substantiates the allegation that anyone has pledged not to partner with the congregation, nor has there been any such statement from the Archbishop or anyone else at the Chancery Office. There are other inaccuracies and misleading statements in the piece, but this is the most egregious.

 

[crenfro]

“Aren’t we all, as Catholics, supposed to do things out of love? To me, some of the postings in this thread seem more confrontational, defensive and self-righteous than loving.”

Excommunication IS DONE OUT OF LOVE. It is making sure they understand that what they are doing is in direct violation of the Church of God.

I’m aware of why excommunication is done and I have no problem with why the church does it, as in this case.

Please read my entire post. I made an observation about the tones of some of the posts I’d read within this particular thread, not about excommunication.

And of course, this is only my opinion and you certainly are free to take it or leave it, with courtesy.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

The Archbishop issued a warning of excommunication if they went through with the “ordinations.”

It is THEIR choice. If they think the archbishop will backdown, they are in for a surprise.

Excommunication means they are cutoff from The Roman Catholic Church and are anathema.

If they do not make reconcilliation but should die in that state they are hellbound.

 

[ImmaculataChamp]

[SIGN]Support Bishop Burke![/SIGN]

BTW

All those who support womens ordination call the Catholic Church, the bride of Christ, a lesbian.

 

[MFTM]

Archbishop Burke is in his late 50’s. While he has not been in St. Louis for long, he was bishop of LaCrosse for some time. He is also, possibly the world’s leading expert in Canon Law. He is, in my opinion which is based on first hand knowledge, a very holy, humle and pastoral shepherd. I am sure he is very concerned for these women’s souls and those of the rest of his flock.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Archbishop Burke is in his late 50’s. While he has not been in St. Louis for long, he was bishop of LaCrosse for some time. He is also, possibly the world’s leading expert in Canon Law. He is, in my opinion which is based on first hand knowledge, a very holy, humle and pastoral shepherd. I am sure he is very concerned for these women’s souls and those of the rest of his flock.

You are right, he 59. He looks younger. And yes, from personal contact he is a very holy and humble man. He confirmed my daughter. He makes rounds to various parishes for fish fries in Lent.

 

[kwitz]

What I found interesting in today’s article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch covering the ordination is that one of the women found out about this organization that “ordains” women in April 2006. That means her “formation” was no more than 1 1/2 years!

Kris

 

[TMC]

The Saint Louis Post-Dispatch, along with other media outlets, ought to stay out of what doesn’t concern it. This is an internal Church matter.

Do you think he does not want to be on the front page? Do you think that announcing ex communications for those who have obviously deliberately chosen to undertake latae sententiae actions to ex-communicate themselves was not meant to garner media attention? Is that not why he writes columns about it and features it as the lead topic on the dioceses website?

I think these excommunications are certainly required, but they should be a cause for sobriety and sadness, not triumphal cheering. These women felt strongly enough that the Church is wrong to accept excommunication as their lot. I disagree with them, but I accept with sadness that they truly feel that something is misplaced in our Church. They had to be dealt with, but to celebrate that fact is deeply wrong. We are working for souls and lives, its not a football game.

 

[estesbob]

They had to be dealt with, but to celebrate that fact is deeply wrong. We are working for souls and lives, its not a football game.

And where are the people celebrating this?

You seem more intent on criticizing those are commenting on the appropriateness of this and showing support for the Bishop than you are those who have defied the church.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Do you think he does not want to be on the front page? Do you think that announcing ex communications for those who have obviously deliberately chosen to undertake latae sententiae actions to ex-communicate themselves was not meant to garner media attention? Is that not why he writes columns about it and features it as the lead topic on the dioceses website?

I think these excommunications are certainly required, but they should be a cause for sobriety and sadness, not triumphal cheering. These women felt strongly enough that the Church is wrong to accept excommunication as their lot. I disagree with them, but I accept with sadness that they truly feel that something is misplaced in our Church. They had to be dealt with, but to celebrate that fact is deeply wrong. We are working for souls and lives, its not a football game.

Your perception is not shared by all here. The Cardinal is duty bound to promulgate the excommunications to fend off others that are considering doing likewise and thus endanger their immortal souls.

The “nuns” were warned but they went ahead just the same. If the Cardinal failed to followup on the excommunications he would weaken the Church and its discipline. In a spiritual sense, from where I see it, the nuns were defiant and no doubt a devil had entered both of them. These things can happen especially when people “invite” evil…it begins with PRIDE.

Feminist movements that promote killing of the unborn and mockery of the Church have PRIDE as their banner.

That is the topmost sin of the Seven Capital Sins…PRIDE !

The mindboggling thing about all of this concerning the excommunicants are their AGE. They are in advanced age and that is a time in life that one should focus more on eternity.

 

[Servulus]

Do you think he does not want to be on the front page? Do you think that announcing ex communications for those who have obviously deliberately chosen to undertake latae sententiae actions to ex-communicate themselves was not meant to garner media attention? Is that not why he writes columns about it and features it as the lead topic on the dioceses website?

The Archbishop did not “go public” to the secular media. He communicated privately with the individuals involved. They (or the organization they’re affiliating with) issued the press releases. As to his column in the Review and information on the website, these are his principal channels of communicating with the faithful in the archdiocese, which is his responsibility.

 

[Brendan]

Archbishop Burke is in his late 50’s. While he has not been in St. Louis for long, he was bishop of LaCrosse for some time. He is also, possibly the world’s leading expert in Canon Law.

That is correct, one of his previous assignments was to sit on the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, effectively the Catholic Church’s equivalent of the Supreme Court.

He is effectively, a former Supreme Court Justice.

 

[TMC]

And where are the people celebrating this?

You seem more intent on criticizing those are commenting on the appropriateness of this and showing support for the Bishop than you are those who have defied the church.

If I have falsely ascribed motives or emotions I apologize, but these are the clapping, cheering, and so forth posts that I thought were celebratory in nature (had to drop some smileys because of forum limits # to 10):

Good for him!!!
:clapping:

The St. Louis Hammer strikes again. Awesome.

We can start the trail burnings before mass.

I get SO tired of all these people that try to change doctrines of the Church!!! Like they’re going to really change things It’s REAL easy people…if you don’t like the way THE Church that has been here for 2000 years is (pardon my French)dont let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!!!

Love it. And believe it or not I am one of the graying sexual revolution babies that stand behind the young orthodox kids. We’re not all liberals.

What a fantastic Archbishop. :extrahappy: The people of St. Louis are lucky to have him. May God continue to give him courage to stand up for Church teaching. :knight2:

To me these ex communications are like Travis shooting Old Yeller. It had to be done, but it is a sad neccessity, not jubilant one.

 

[bones_IV]

If I have falsely ascribed motives or emotions I apologize, but these are the clapping, cheering, and so forth posts that I thought were celebratory in nature (had to drop some smileys because of forum limits # to 10): To me these ex communications are like Travis shooting Old Yeller. It had to be done, but it is a sad neccessity, not jubilant one.

Remember the parable of the lost sheep.

Luke 15 :1 Now the publicans and sinners drew near unto him to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying: This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 3 And he spoke to them this parable, saying: 4 What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it? 5 And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing:
6 And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost? 7 I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance. 8 Or what woman having ten groats; if she lose one groat, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently until she find it? 9 And when she hath found it, call together her friends and neighbours, saying: Rejoice with me, because I have found the groat which I had lost. 10 So I say to you, there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Do you think he does not want to be on the front page? Do you think that announcing ex communications for those who have obviously deliberately chosen to undertake latae sententiae actions to ex-communicate themselves was not meant to garner media attention? Is that not why he writes columns about it and features it as the lead topic on the dioceses website?

The Archbishop doesn’t care what the St. Louis Post-Dispatch says about him. He cares about shepherding his flock.

It is his job to write in the St Louis Review (the local Catholic paper) about current happenings and Catholic teachings.

I think these excommunications are certainly required, but they should be a cause for sobriety and sadness, not triumphal cheering. If you read the Archbishop’s article, there isn’t the slighteste hint of triumphal cheering.

November 9, 2007
*
"‘Be not afraid!’
Attempted ordinations to the priesthood

by Archbishop Raymond L. Burke​

Introduction

I write with great sadness about the announced attempt to ordain two women of the Archdiocese of St. Louis to the Order of Priests, on this coming Nov. 11 at the synagogue of the Central Reform Congregation, "*
If you will look at page one of the Metro section of the SLPD, you will see triumphant cheering:
stltoday.com/news
TOP STORY
“Cheering crowd attends disputed ordination of two women as priests
Erik M. Lunsford/P-DHundreds of supporters pack synagogue for ceremony unsanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church. [more]
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH”

These women felt strongly enough that the Church is wrong to accept excommunication as their lot. I disagree with them, but I accept with sadness that they truly feel that something is misplaced in our Church. They had to be dealt with, but to celebrate that fact is deeply wrong. We are working for souls and lives, its not a football game.

They can “feel” what they want, but they are NOT in agreement with CC Magesterium. If they want to be priests, they should become Episcopalian. One cannot pick and choose which doctrine to believe. Unlike some Protestant denominations, the Church is not a Democracy. Truth does not depend on the how people “feel.”

 

[bones_IV]

Isn’t it interesting how many of the bishops who oppose the Latin mass are in support of women’s ordination, abortion rights, gay marriages and pedophilia. They are uniformly gay.

 

[wanner47]

TMC, I think most people’s “joy” in this situation comes from the fact that there is a faithful bishop enforcing the teachings of the Church, not from the fact that people have incurred excommunication. It’s so frustrating when things like this happen and the local bishop either permits it or doesn’t speak out against it (e.g., that case in San Francisco where an archbishop gave the Eucharist to two fake nuns) that when a bishop DOES do the right thing, people are happy to see it.

 

[bones_IV]

TMC, I think most people’s “joy” in this situation comes from the fact that there is a faithful bishop enforcing the teachings of the Church, not from the fact that people have incurred excommunication. It’s so frustrating when things like this happen and the local bishop either permits it or doesn’t speak out against it (e.g., that case in San Francisco where an archbishop gave the Eucharist to two fake nuns) that when a bishop DOES do the right thing, people are happy to see it.

That was my point.

 

[TMC]

The Archbishop doesn’t care what the St. Louis Post-Dispatch says about him. He cares about shepherding his flock.

I guess we have to disagree on this. I think he wanted the publicity. Maybe for very good reasons - to let people know this is not acceptable, for example - but I would have rather he had not been so public about it. Maybe he had no choice as they were very public in their actions.

They can “feel” what they want, but they are NOT in agreement with CC Magesterium. If they want to be priests, they should become Episcopalian. One cannot pick and choose which doctrine to believe. Unlike some Protestant denominations, the Church is not a Democracy. Truth does not depend on the how people “feel.”

I hope you notice that each of my posts has agreed with this.

 

[TMC]

Isn’t it interesting how many of the bishops who oppose the Latin mass are in support of women’s ordination, abortion rights, gay marriages and pedophilia. They are uniformly gay.

Not sure I am understanding you correctly, bones_IV. Are you saying that all bishops that don’t like the Latin Mass are homosexuals? Or that all bishops that disagree with the Church on any of the issues you list are homosexuals? Or something else?