Starbucks??

[Karianne]

What matters is making decisions from a well formed and informed Catholic conscience.

Sort of like the lesser of two evils?

which are the two evils you are referring to?

 

[Karianne]

I am not promoting any agenda my dear Karianne…what I was doing was answering his question…you seem it have a problem with people answering direct questions…

once again re-read his OP…he had already made up his mind…why are you ignoring that fact and making this all my fault?

I have not done any harm…perhaps your ignorance has though …once again I did not trash Starbucks…I stated facts about what they support (as willy wanted to know about from his OP)…they chose to trash themselves by supporting these things…but then I would not expect you to understamd…you have no problems with aboriton or homosexuals (from your various posts).

You mean that you HOPE that you did no harm, or that you didn’t MEAN to do any harm.
As to whether you did or didn’t…that remains to be seen.
So far I have refrained from calling you ignorant or any names.
You need to work on your social skills, if you were in front of me I doubt that you would be so abrasive.
It’s amazing the things that folks who think of themselves as Catholic will say while hiding behind a computer screename.

 

[fix]

A Gay person has a same sex attraction, a member of KKK hates black people.*

One who uses the term gay, as in supporting a gay parade, not only has such an attraction but accepts it needs to be lived out as in contrary to the faith. How many poor souls struggling to live as the Church teaches support the nonsense that is a gay parade?

The word gay is more than same sex attraction. It is a political word.

I do have to insist that some of the clients of the shelters regularly prostitute themselves, rob, cheat and steal. Yet they are never turned away…even though they partake in immoral and illegal activity.

Yes, do we have clubs to celebrate going to a prostitute or parades for that? That some struggle with drug use does not suggest we celebrate that struggle.

By feeding, clothing and sheltering these people…some who will never change their behaviour…are you not assisting them in their lifestyle?

No, we do not. We give mercy and comfort as we are called to do. We do not claim they must rob or take drugs.

Of course not…your simply accepting who they are and helping them…even though, after they fill their belly…they will go out and commit a sinful act.

I am all for helping folks with same sex attraction, attraction to wife swapping, attraction to pornograph, attraction to pedophilia, attraction to armed robbery, ect. But, no parades for them. No claiming they must live out such a life in a way that contradicts their dignity.

In the same breath, the Police are reaching out to a segment of society, sinful or not, they are reaching and telling them " we accept you and you can trust us."

A good end is never justified by an evil means. Reaching out is good. Participating in immoral events that give scandal is a sin.

I have no idea what the pride is, but for a homosexual its apparently important to some of them.

What some misguided folks “feel” is necessary is not proof it is good for them.

It’s the moral norm for a some people, but not all people. At least in Canada, only about 25% of Christians go to church weekly. So the weekly church going folk are not the norm in this Western country. Secondly, the majority of Canadians support same sex marriage. Going with the moral norm can back fire on you

The norm is not determined by pop culture. It is set by God.

We all have different needs and perspectives on how to interact with the world. A 4th generation American earning a 6 figure income…does not generally have the same needs or concerns as a Somalian refugee.

We all have the same goal. Do good and avoid evil.

I have no idea what the Pope said, if you can source that claim, I would be interested to read it. I’m generally not sold on big world wide social conspiracies.

A conspiracy is not some evil men in dark coats whispering. In one of his last books the Pope was refering to the idea that two same sex persons could marry.

Are you claiming that culture and society have no influence on morals or how folks reason? They do. That influence is an agenda. It can be to foist homosexual acts as good, it can be that sex outside marriage is good, it can be that to be anorexic is good. These signals are out there. They have supporters.

I mean, there are over a billion Catholics around the world…and there is no conspiracy. Homosexuals make up something like 2% of the population…

It is not simply those who suffer from SSA. It is part of a larger problem termed by the current Pope as the dictatorship of relativism.

 

[Karin]

You mean that you HOPE that you did no harm, or that you didn’t MEAN to do any harm.

IMHO…I did no harm…I answered a question that the OP wanted an answer to…that is all
I guess your solution would of been to lie to the OP…well each their own I guess

.
You need to work on your social skills, if you were in front of me I doubt that you would be so abrasive.

WRONG…I more than likely would be (guarantee it)…as an East Coast gal…I speak my mind…I call it like I see it!

It’s amazing the things that folks who think of themselves as Catholic will say while hiding behind a computer screename.

Exactly…like saying abortion laws are ok…

 

[gmarie21]

Ladies, can we just stop with the insults. There are people for and against boycotting for various reasons. The reality is that it is a difficult tightrope to walk when seperating how we treat the sin and the one doing the sin. If a person wants to boycott, go ahead, but please, don’t be condescending toward those who choose to preach the same truth a different way. The same holds true for those who do not boycott, please don’t condescend those who do. And for those who may have felt like was condescending, my deepest appologies.

 

[Karin]

Ladies, can we just stop with the insults. There are people for and against boycotting for various reasons. The reality is that it is a difficult tightrope to walk when seperating how we treat the sin and the one doing the sin. If a person wants to boycott, go ahead, but please, don’t be condescending toward those who choose to preach the same truth a different way. The same holds true for those who do not boycott, please don’t condescend those who do. And for those who may have felt like was condescending, my deepest appologies.

first off…I agree with your post…
But I never advocated boycotting anything (someone missed that part)…the OP asked for an answer to a question, I supplied it…what he does with that info is up to him and judging from his OP he had already made up his mind as to what he would do!

 

[setitstraight]

One who uses the term gay, as in supporting a gay parade, not only has such an attraction but accepts it needs to be lived out as in contrary to the faith. How many poor souls struggling to live as the Church teaches support the nonsense that is a gay parade?

The word gay is more than same sex attraction. It is a political word.

I don’t quite see the point your trying to make.

Yes, do we have clubs to celebrate going to a prostitute or parades for that? That some struggle with drug use does not suggest we celebrate that struggle.
No, we do not. We give mercy and comfort as we are called to do. We do not claim they must rob or take drugs.

I stand corrected, I feel as though you have successfully proven my point wrong. I withdraw that point as it is not a correct assumption or comparison. I think you would be hard pressed to find a homeless shelter that hosts grand celebrations for their clients addictions and sorry predicaments.

I am all for helping folks with same sex attraction, attraction to wife swapping, attraction to pornograph, attraction to pedophilia, attraction to armed robbery, ect. But, no parades for them. No claiming they must live out such a life in a way that contradicts their dignity.

You’ve made a good point…however a person could argue that a Pornography convention in L.A., or Pornography Awards is just as celebratory as a gay pride parade. Same could be said for those sex clubs in some of the bigger cities that go un-noticed by most people and the media.

A good end is never justified by an evil means. Reaching out is good. Participating in immoral events that give scandal is a sin.

Another good point - I’m in a position where I see why certain agencies participate…yet I don’t agree with that participation…

What some misguided folks “feel” is necessary is not proof it is good for them.

Your right.

The norm is not determined by pop culture. It is set by God.

You have clarified your point and I agree with you. I do believe that people have their own moral compass imprinted within them.

We all have the same goal. Do good and avoid evil.

We all should have the same goal.

Are you claiming that culture and society have no influence on morals or how folks reason? They do.

I’m not claiming in that…in fact the forces of consumer marketing and pop culture probably have more influence on people in a modern society than it should,

It is not simply those who suffer from SSA. It is part of a larger propblem termed by the current Pope as the dictatorship of relativism.

Once again, you’ve clarified your point and I agree with you. It is a larger problem and it can be damaging…here’s a good example…’ well, everyone watches porno, its a multi-billion dollar industry…it must be ok…it’s so normal, everyones doing it…I read about it and heard about it on TV’ Morally corrupting, psychologically damaging and addicting…yet we are told that it is normal…when it is not.

Good point…

 

[setter]

which are the two evils you are referring to?

This was a rhetorical point, as in the young man needs to get a job with a company that does not support immoral lifestyles or killing industries.

 

[setter]

I wasn’t advocating boycotting I was simply showing other examples of companies that may or may not be on the list of companies to boycott. I am a firm believer in what St. Paul wrote about, in order to convert people to Christ, one must not run away from the sinner, one must become like the sinner without sinning inorder to earn their trust so that they will hear the Truth when you tell them. No matter what the moral controversy, its about conversion of hearts and souls. No man made law can do that, only the Holy Spirit working through individuals can do that.

Also having the willingness and courage to give credible witness through one’s words and actions, including consumer purchases that run counter culture and set one at odds with one’s neighbors, friends, family or fellow parishoners.

 

[setter]

Boycotting is a personal choice. There have been some on this thread who have implied that if one does NOT boycott Starbucks (or like companies that support gay rights, abortion, etc.) then one is sinning. I think that is why this thread may be a little too warm.

There is a difference between jostling one’s Catholic conscience to alertness and allowing for conviction versus implying sinfulness …some folks seem to readily blur this distinction.

 

[Karianne]

IMHO…I did no harm…I answered a question that the OP wanted an answer to…that is all
I guess your solution would of been to lie to the OP…well each their own I guess

WRONG…I more than likely would be (guarantee it)…as an East Coast gal…I speak my mind…I call it like I see it!

Exactly…like saying abortion laws are ok…

Please, I am from the East Coast and that has never precluded me from displaying good manners. I also do not admire ill-mannered people.
Perhaps we are from different parts of the East Coast.

 

[Karin]

Please, I am from the East Coast and that has never precluded me from displaying good manners. I also do not admire ill-mannered people.
Perhaps we are from different parts of the East Coast.

could be, you sound more like the laid back, anything goes part (Anything North of the Tri-State area or is that anything South of us?).

stating my opinions in a matter of fact way is not bad manners…

 

[Karianne]

could be, you sound more like the laid back, anything goes part (Anything North of the Tri-State area or is that anything South of us?).

stating my opinions in a matter of fact way is not bad manners…

I never said that it was. Feeling guilty?

 

[Karin]

I never said that it was. Feeling guilty?

Nope…no guilt here as a matter of fact I have nothing to feel guilty about concerning this thread of anything I have posted on it

 

[Lion]

they support gay pride events…you can Google (starbucks, gays) and find a whole list of things
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002455480_starbucks29m.html
Richardson, of the women’s organization, cites possible support by Starbucks for pro-life clinics and the Boy Scouts of America as ways the company might offset its support of Planned Parenthood Federation of America and gay pride.
But Starbucks spokeswoman Lara Wyss said decisions about sponsoring gay-pride events and other causes are made at the store or regional level, not the corporate level. .

Gay pride parade is brought to you by …
Microsoft, Starbucks, Wamu among local corporate supporters

bostonpride.org/parade.php (scroll sown you can see Starbucks is one of the sponsors of this)

Thank you for the links

 

[Karin]

Thank you for the links

You are very welcome Lion.
I sure hope I did not do you a diservice by giving this info out

 

[Lion]

You are very welcome Lion.
I sure hope I did not do you a diservice by giving this info out

LOL
Well, like I said in an earlier post, I’m not a big fan of Starbucks coffee in the first place and so rarely go there. I find their coffee always gives me headache…

 

[davy39]

Personal decisions to boycott based on moral principles are not contrary to the faith or logic. No one is saying the Church requires us to boycott Starbucks, but that does not mean an individual may not make such a choice.

As to your assertion about other entities that also promote types of evil I would say that it depends on how close one is to the source and to what degree one is cooperating with the evil. That is part of traditional moral theology.

I just said that the Chinese government promotes and requires forced abortion, it has driven the Church underground and replaced it with a state approved church that does not recognize the Vatican, and is also using some of the profits from our thirst for Chinese-made products for their war machine. They threatened to send missles to hit L.A. if we tried to defend Taiwan. But we (probably me included) turn our back on all of this, so the flow of cheap products will keep coming. No, I never said that a person couldn’t boycott anybody if they choose. I was just trying to show another side of the picture. In the case concerning the Chinese, we are all cooperating with the evil, to some extent. Also, the Chinese are financing billions of our debt, so we will continue to bow to them.

 

[setitstraight]

I just said that the Chinese government promotes and requires forced abortion, it has driven the Church underground and replaced it with a state approved church that does not recognize the Vatican, and is also using some of the profits from our thirst for Chinese-made products for their war machine. They threatened to send missles to hit L.A. if we tried to defend Taiwan. But we (probably me included) turn our back on all of this, so the flow of cheap products will keep coming. No, I never said that a person couldn’t boycott anybody if they choose. I was just trying to show another side of the picture. In the case concerning the Chinese, we are all cooperating with the evil, to some extent. Also, the Chinese are financing billions of our debt, so we will continue to bow to them.

…this is someone who understands the big picture, the world is complex and global trade complicates things even further…if only things could be so simple, as to read what is good and bad on an LDI boycott list.

…there are many shades of gray.

 

[Lorik]

…this is someone who understands the big picture, the world is complex and global trade complicates things even further…if only things could be so simple, as to read what is good and bad on an LDI boycott list.

…there are many shades of gray.

It’s not that I don’t understand that the world is complex and that American greed has put us and much of the world’s population in a dangerous (at best) postition.
As I stated before I don’t think that my few pennies of their profit will change the world. But it is the sacrfiice that is offered to God that matters the most. I know my inconvience is a tiny sacrifice compared to the massive monster we’re up against but if it is any consolation to God in the tiniest bit I’ve accomplished my goal.