Starbucks??

[setitstraight]

No Roman Catholic worth their sand should be supporting a group, organization or corporate entity that actively supports social engineering which seeks to normalize and gain mainstream acceptance for an illcit and unhealthy lifestyle. Period. Putting down that cup of java is a small price to pay for not contributing to the coffer of those supporting an anti-gospel agenda. The only bias is those Catholics who contrive otherwise.

I’ve re-read your post and there are some major problems with your selective moral position.

Make certain that nothing you ever purchase contains anything from Canada. Canada has legalized same sex marriage, you have clearly stated that any Catholic worth their sand should not support any group that ’ actively support social engineering ’ . You can’t get any more active that a Nation legalizing same sex marriage.

So I say to you;

Refusing to use any product that contains anything from Canada is a small price to pay for not contributing to a Nation that supports an anti-gospel agenda. The only bias is those Catholics who keep buying products from Canada.

You probably didn’t know this…Canada is America’s largest trading partner and China ( human rights abuses) is Americas second largest.

Do you see the problem with a selective boycott?

’ I refuse to buy a coffee at Starbucks, but I’ll drive my Honda Accord manufactured in Toronto and I love my new cheap LCD from China. Now pass the salt…oops, thats from Nova Scotia. Forget it, I’ll just turn off the lights…darn it, the hydro’s from Quebec.’

 

[setitstraight]

It’s not that I don’t understand that the world is complex and that American greed has put us and much of the world’s population in a dangerous (at best) postition.
As I stated before I don’t think that my few pennies of their profit will change the world. But it is the sacrfiice that is offered to God that matters the most. I know my inconvience is a tiny sacrifice compared to the massive monster we’re up against but if it is any consolation to God in the tiniest bit I’ve accomplished my goal.

You are the first person who is involved in the boycott to acknowledge the complexities with domestic and international trade.

There is nothing at all wrong with a personal boycott…all I ask is that people acknowledge that there is a bigger picture beyond a cup of coffee.

 

[Katie1723]

…It’s amazing the things that folks who think of themselves as Catholic will say while hiding behind a computer screename.

What is amazing to me is that some folks say they are Catholic and because this is a Catholic forum, give the Catholic answer, yet do just the opposite. My father always told me to speak my mind and be direct. It may ruffle some feathers, but there will be no mistaking what you mean.
Kathy

 

[Karin]

What is amazing to me is that some folks say they are Catholic and because this is a Catholic forum, give the Catholic answer, yet do just the opposite. My father always told me to speak my mind and be direct. It may ruffle some feathers, but there will be no mistaking what you mean.
Kathy

Oh Kathy…awesome post!

 

[Karianne]

I just said that the Chinese government promotes and requires forced abortion, it has driven the Church underground and replaced it with a state approved church that does not recognize the Vatican, and is also using some of the profits from our thirst for Chinese-made products for their war machine. They threatened to send missles to hit L.A. if we tried to defend Taiwan. But we (probably me included) turn our back on all of this, so the flow of cheap products will keep coming. No, I never said that a person couldn’t boycott anybody if they choose. I was just trying to show another side of the picture. In the case concerning the Chinese, we are all cooperating with the evil, to some extent. Also, the Chinese are financing billions of our debt, so we will continue to bow to them.

There is probably something that can be done but we haven’t figured it out yet.
Do you think that when the Reagan administration started to
silence the unions in America that we became vulnerable to this country?

 

[fix]

I just said that the Chinese government promotes and requires forced abortion, it has driven the Church underground and replaced it with a state approved church that does not recognize the Vatican, and is also using some of the profits from our thirst for Chinese-made products for their war machine. They threatened to send missles to hit L.A. if we tried to defend Taiwan. But we (probably me included) turn our back on all of this, so the flow of cheap products will keep coming. No, I never said that a person couldn’t boycott anybody if they choose. I was just trying to show another side of the picture. In the case concerning the Chinese, we are all cooperating with the evil, to some extent. Also, the Chinese are financing billions of our debt, so we will continue to bow to them.

I am no defender of China. I simply pointed out that moral theology can be complicated in such matters. Again, how close one is to the source of the evil act and what degree of cooperation one gives, helps determine if one is culpable for cooperating with evil.

I offer these guidelines from the Vatican as a starting point:

The principle of licit cooperation in evil

The first fundamental distinction to be made is that between formal and material cooperation. Formal cooperation is carried out when the moral agent cooperates with the immoral action of another person, sharing in the latter’s evil intention. On the other hand, when a moral agent cooperates with the immoral action of another person, without sharing in the intention, it is a case of material cooperation.

Material cooperation can be further divided into categories of immediate – direct – and mediate – indirect – depending on whether the cooperation is in the execution of the sinful action per se, or whether the agent acts by fulfilling the conditions – either by providing instruments or products – which make it possible to commit the immoral act.

Furthermore, forms of proximate cooperation and remote cooperation can be distinguished, in relation to the “distance” – be it in terms of temporal space or material connection – between the act of cooperation and the sinful act committed by someone else. Immediate material cooperation is always proximate, while mediate material cooperation can be either proximate or remote…

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=74741

 

[davy39]

…this is someone who understands the big picture, the world is complex and global trade complicates things even further…if only things could be so simple, as to read what is good and bad on an LDI boycott list.

…there are many shades of gray.

Yes, there are many shades of gray in this complex world. I try to buy american made when I have a choice between american and chinese made, but in so many cases, you have no choice anymore, because of the downfall of manufacturing in this country. It’s still up to person as to what they do. If a personal boycott makes you feel better in your heart, go for it. That’s what I do.

 

[fix]

…this is someone who understands the big picture, the world is complex and global trade complicates things even further…if only things could be so simple, as to read what is good and bad on an LDI boycott list.

…there are many shades of gray.

Indeed, it can become complicated. However, we ought to be careful not to throw our hands up and claim none of it matters or that boycotting is never an answer.

 

[setitstraight]

Indeed, it can become complicated. However, we ought to be careful not to throw our hands up and claim none of it matters or that boycotting is never an answer.

Well said, I think some people may have thought I was expressing a view that boycotts are useless and pointless, because you can’t win.

Simply stated, my point is that the moral line is complicated and does not speak of how Catholic one is based upon their boycotts.

If you boycott for a moral reason, good for you. If you choose not to boycott, enjoy your coffee.

Me, I prefer Tim Hortons.

 

[setitstraight]

Yes, there are many shades of gray in this complex world. I try to buy american made when I have a choice between american and chinese made, but in so many cases, you have no choice anymore, because of the downfall of manufacturing in this country. It’s still up to person as to what they do. If a personal boycott makes you feel better in your heart, go for it. That’s what I do.

I can’t argue with that…even when it’s American made, some part of the item may have come from a foreign land. It’s pretty tough these days.

Made in America, with 95% of the parts from China. Lol

 

[davy39]

There is probably something that can be done but we haven’t figured it out yet.
Do you think that when the Reagan administration started to
silence the unions in America that we became vulnerable to this country?

Just my opinion, but I believe that the Reagan admin. did more to wreck organized labor than anybody else. It all started with the air traffic controllers, and spread elsewhere. Now, before I start getting comments about the corrupt unions, and their ridiculous demands for higher wages and better working conditions, I will admit that some of them were corrupt, but I think we are better off having them than not. As far as the Starbucks controversy, we don’t have any out here in the sticks, so I’ll do my boycotting with other things. I may not accomplish much by myself, but with others, who knows?

 

[Karianne]

Just my opinion, but I believe that the Reagan admin. did more to wreck organized labor than anybody else. It all started with the air traffic controllers, and spread elsewhere. Now, before I start getting comments about the corrupt unions, and their ridiculous demands for higher wages and better working conditions, I will admit that some of them were corrupt, but I think we are better off having them than not. As far as the Starbucks controversy, we don’t have any out here in the sticks, so I’ll do my boycotting with other things. I may not accomplish much by myself, but with others, who knows?

I agree with your comments. I won’t boycott Starbucks, though.

 

[davy39]

I can’t argue with that…even when it’s American made, some part of the item may have come from a foreign land. It’s pretty tough these days.

Made in America, with 95% of the parts from China. Lol

Yes, that is a laugh, sometimes. Recently I took our Ford in for some recall work. They had a new Ford Fusion in the showroom, so I read the sticker on the window. I noticed the automatic transmission was made in China. Also, I work in a hardware store, partime. I noticed on the boxes of nuts and bolts it states: The contents of this box may be made in one of the following countries::Taiwan, United States, Korea, China, or Canada. Very confusing, indeed!!

 

[setitstraight]

The contents of this box may be made in one of the following countries::Taiwan, United States, Korea, China, or Canada. Very confusing, indeed!!

Now that one takes the cake. My Chevrolet Optra…is made in Korea and the original company is Daewoo, that went bankrupt and was bought out by GM.

 

[setter]

I’ve re-read your post and there are some major problems with your selective moral position.

Make certain that nothing you ever purchase contains anything from Canada. Canada has legalized same sex marriage, you have clearly stated that any Catholic worth their sand should not support any group that ’ actively support social engineering ’ . You can’t get any more active that a Nation legalizing same sex marriage.

So I say to you;

Refusing to use any product that contains anything from Canada is a small price to pay for not contributing to a Nation that supports an anti-gospel agenda. The only bias is those Catholics who keep buying products from Canada.

You probably didn’t know this…Canada is America’s largest trading partner and China ( human rights abuses) is Americas second largest.

Do you see the problem with a selective boycott?

’ I refuse to buy a coffee at Starbucks, but I’ll drive my Honda Accord manufactured in Toronto and I love my new cheap LCD from China. Now pass the salt…oops, thats from Nova Scotia. Forget it, I’ll just turn off the lights…darn it, the hydro’s from Quebec.’

The problem is not so much with a selctive boycott as it is with the complexity of global intertwined markets, as has been pointed out.

I cannot quite get my arms around the whole of Canada’s decline into moral relativism, but I can for a company that is peddling a specific non-essential commodity and funnels profits to support anti-gospel social engineering initiatives. This is in my relevent sphere of influence to not buy Starbucks and to decline an ofer of Starbucks.

Good for you to stand on principle and refuse to buy Starbuck/s coffee. I made the switch a few years ago based on my these CA forum discussion, and I have had more than a few opportunities to enlighten friends and family as to the immoral funding flow of Starbucks when I pass on a cup of Starbuck java. Stick with Tom Hortons.

 

[Julianna]

A question for any serious Catholic: Would someone be able to identify you as a faithful Catholic solely by the products that you purchase?

No, unless you are lurking around the malls with your notepad and pen, seeking out members of your church and noting when one of them, or their family members order a latte from Starbucks…

not sure just “who” you would report that to either…and “if” anyone would really care…muchado about nothing

 

[Karianne]

What is amazing to me is that some folks say they are Catholic and because this is a Catholic forum, give the Catholic answer, yet do just the opposite. My father always told me to speak my mind and be direct. It may ruffle some feathers, but there will be no mistaking what you mean.
Kathy

Thank you for agreeing with me, Kathy.

 

[setter]

Originally Posted by **setter **
A question for any serious Catholic: Would someone be able to identify you as a faithful Catholic solely by the products that you purchase?

No, …

…muchado about nothing

It is not a matter of “muchado about nothing”, but rather as Catholics we are called to be the salt of the earth, a lamp set on a hill to give witness and testimony to the truth of the gospel.

 

[patg]

It is not a matter of “muchado about nothing”, but rather as Catholics we are called to be the salt of the earth, a lamp set on a hill to give witness and testimony to the truth of the gospel.

I couldn’t be any of those things without my morning Starbucks.

 

[setter]

I couldn’t be any of those things without my morning Starbucks.

An inordinate attachment?