Stars pay tribute to Pope John Paul II

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You keep trying to hijack this thread!!
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Nope!

I’m perfectly clear about that.

You just don’t like what I’m saying.

Pope John Paul II was popular for reasons other than his Catholicism.

“The World” loves to hear about “dignity, humanness, religious-brotherhood, fraternity, equality, liberty, goodness”.

They don’t like to hear about all that Jesus stuff though (well -except the nice bits “hey be good everybody”).

John Paul II failed in his mission to hand on what he recieved from the fathers of our faith. He dabbled in novelty, he let us down.
25 years of abuse of every kind within the Church and he let it all happen.
He fostered indifference by his actions such as that at Assisi.
He was an accomplice in the breaking of the FIRST commandment (do you deny it?)

He would be a success if “the world” hated him.

But they didn’t.

(Note: To the moderators - this IS on topic).
 
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John_1959:
You just don’t like what I’m saying.
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:yawn: Let’s get one thing straight, I don’t CARE what your saying. Your ideas about Pope JPII bring nothing of value to the particular thread. As I’ve said before, there are more appropriate ppaces to have that particular discussion. (This is a HUGE forum by the way)
 
I say what I see!

You want to know why JPII was popular with “the world” and I’m telling you.

It had nothing to do with Catholicism.
 
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John_1959:
Nope!

I’m perfectly clear about that.

You just don’t like what I’m saying.

Pope John Paul II was popular for reasons other than his Catholicism.

“The World” loves to hear about “dignity, humanness, religious-brotherhood, fraternity, equality, liberty, goodness”.

They don’t like to hear about all that Jesus stuff though (well -except the nice bits “hey be good everybody”).

John Paul II failed in his mission to hand on what he recieved from the fathers of our faith. He dabbled in novelty, he let us down.
25 years of abuse of every kind within the Church and he let it all happen.
He fostered indifference by his actions such as that at Assisi.
He was an accomplice in the breaking of the FIRST commandment (do you deny it?)

He would be a success if “the world” hated him.

But they didn’t.

(Note: To the moderators - this IS on topic).
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No, he didn’t fail. He dabbled in no novelty. Popes don’t micromanage the Church, any of them, so novelty and abuse could better be laid at the feet of individual bishops or bishops conferences. You keep going on about Assisi. It wasn’t a liturgy, read about it from a non rad trad source. You’ve gotten all your information from people with agendas, which is intellectually dishonest. That’s fine if you’re a teenager, but less than acceptable if you’re a literate adult. Yes, I deny that he ever broke or helped to break the first commandment. This is the pope who issued “Domine Jesu.” The world may have loved him for himself and in spite of his message, but that has nothing to do with his integrity in delivering the message. The same can be said of Billy Grahm. The same can be said for how people feel about their grandparents, they may not share their values, but they more than likely love their grandparents. John Paul will be a saint and people will be calling for his intercession long after you and I have shuffled off the stage and been forgotten. He faithfully proclaimed the Gospel. You can read his writings yourself, his speeches, addresses, etc. I challenge you to do so.
 
Yes, I deny that he ever broke or helped to break the first commandment.
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The First Commandment.
“Thou shalt not worship false gods before me”.

And that is exactly what happened at Assisi, at the Popes invitation - which makes him an accomplice.

Who is being intellectually dishonest?

Assisi was only a small part of the Churchs/John Paul II post-council program of religious “dialogue” which has only promoted indifference.

He has failed the faith.
 
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John_1959:
He has failed the faith.
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And you have hijacked the thread, again!!!:banghead:

I give up, you win. Britney Spears, N’Sync, Steven Tyler all will be paying tribute to JPII because he was a failure.
 
Because you can’t answer me its back to the “hijack” nonsense.

He failed the faith when he promoted religious indifference.

The reason Britney likes him is not because of the Catholic faith. Its something else.
 
Let’s try this again. Original topic:
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JP2ImissU:
Britney Spears, Nsync and Aerosmith’s Steven Tyler are among a host of stars who have teamed up to pay tribute to the late Pope John Paul II.

The stars appear in Tribute to Pope John Paul II, a celebration of the pontiff’s thoughts on peace, love, harmony, prayers and poetry.

The celebrities - also including Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Danny Glover, Jennifer Love Hewitt, James Earl Jones, and Brooke Shields - share the words that most inspired them in the video, which has been released by OnQ Digital.

breakingnews.iol.ie/entertainment/story.asp?j=143880682&p=y4388y388
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The stars appear in Tribute to Pope John Paul II, a celebration of the pontiff’s thoughts on peace, love, harmony, prayers and poetry.
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Not his Catholicism then?

I wonder why?

Because his message was man centered - his writings are littered with humanist sentiments.
 
Boy, it’s a real shame when one is suspended for expressing widespread views… right or wrong …

Perhaps a different thread should have been started. But my first thought was that CA might fear those views as ammunition for our anti-Catholic detractors.

If we can’t discuss and learn from our mistakes (Assisi etc), that should be the real concern. But to shut down one who wants to address those problems… well it is your website, so that is your privilege. But you just gave the James White’s of the world more fodder… They will spin it as “CA has something to hide about JPII, they suspend those who are critical of the late Pontiff.”

The reality is that it was criticism of his human mistake(s). As for Kasper… he has been relatively quiet lately - (K(C)asper the friendly ghost?) Perhaps his elevation to cardinal was due to bad advice to JPII. Or perhaps the real (Holy) Ghost planned for him to make his Jewish/Salvation statements so that we could see the error, and re-discuss the real truth about salvation.

Do we get suspended for being critical of him too? Or suspended for concerns about Bishop Leverde?? Or is there new canon law that requires us to NOT question the church if we see serious concerns?
It’s your call at CA. But John raised (again) some points that will be raised again… and is called radical for his concerns. That’s radical.
 
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John1959:
Not his Catholicism then?

I wonder why?

Because his message was man centered - his writings are littered with humanist sentiments.
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OK, NOW we have a discussion!! I guess the third time is the charm.

In my humble opinion, I doubt any of the ‘stars’ really knew what any of his messages were (humanistic or not). People of that caliber are too busy being focused on themselves to take a look around at the world around them.

I’m curious though, the fact that he reached out to so many with a message of love and peace, is that wrong? In his collective body of teaching (and admitedly, I’m still a novice in the study of all his works, the man was so prolific), I find a man who was commited to helping mankind see that we are truly all of God’s children, and as such worthy of respect. He took the job of Pontif seriously, becoming a bridge builder to all of God’s children. I fail to see how that waters down the Catholic faith. As harbingers of the Truth, shouldn’t we reach out to bring other in?
 
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John_1959:
The First Commandment.
“Thou shalt not worship false gods before me”.

And that is exactly what happened at Assisi, at the Popes invitation - which makes him an accomplice.

Who is being intellectually dishonest?

Assisi was only a small part of the Churchs/John Paul II post-council program of religious “dialogue” which has only promoted indifference.

He has failed the faith.
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No, it didn’t. You saying it did doesn’t make it so. The Pope didn’t pray to anyone, but the Trinity. The pope never said,“It doesn’t matter what faith you belong to.” He said (in essence),“Look, the world has tons of problems that the world’s religions have common concerns about, serious problems.” That was the thrust of Assisi.

his message was man centered - his writings are littered with humanist sentiments.
Sheer vitrolic garbage. You can’t have read them if you honestly believe that or you’ve only read them accompanied by the editorializing of fellow rad trads. ALL of the Pope’s teachings about human dignity are founded upon humanity’s creation by God, potential for redemption in the Passion, Death, and Resurection of Jesus, and sanctification by the Holy Spirit. His writings were utterly Trinitarian, not humanistic.
 
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Dredgemate:
OK, NOW we have a discussion!! I guess the third time is the charm.

In my humble opinion, I doubt any of the ‘stars’ really knew what any of his messages were (humanistic or not). People of that caliber are too busy being focused on themselves to take a look around at the world around them.

I’m curious though, the fact that he reached out to so many with a message of love and peace, is that wrong? In his collective body of teaching (and admitedly, I’m still a novice in the study of all his works, the man was so prolific), I find a man who was commited to helping mankind see that we are truly all of God’s children, and as such worthy of respect. He took the job of Pontif seriously, becoming a bridge builder to all of God’s children. I fail to see how that waters down the Catholic faith. As harbingers of the Truth, shouldn’t we reach out to bring other in?
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Do you mean that Peter should cast his nets in deep water? Yes.
That’s what the old Holy Father did and why he will be remembered. True, he didn’t thunder hell at those who didn’t formally sign up as Catholics, but he still gave a clarion call to Calvary. You ask regarding his message of love and peace, “is that so wrong?” If it leads to the notion that one can believe what one wishes, or follow one’s own private beliefs as opposed to objective truth, then yes, that would be wrong. Some on this thread have accused the Pope of fostering this wrong message. They say that his timidity in proclaiming truth is what has lead to the likes of Britney Spears, NSync, and Steven Tyler to feel as though they can be a part of a tribute to him. It would be fair to be a little suspicious that they had missed the message (though not entirely fair, it would be well for all of us to remember the attitude of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son), but it would not be at all fair to assume that HH John Paul the Great had delivered the wrong one or that the one he delivered had not called us to the Cross.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
They say that his timidity in proclaiming truth is what has lead to the likes of Britney Spears, NSync, and Steven Tyler to feel as though they can be a part of a tribute to him. It would be fair to be a little suspicious that they had missed the message (though not entirely fair, it would be well for all of us to remember the attitude of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son),
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Rather, I would say that it is their constant need to publicity that has caused them to jump on the band wagon after seeing the huge media response of his death. The lives they lead and promote do not match up with JPII’s teaching.
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JKirkLVNV:
…but it would not be at all fair to assume that HH John Paul the Great had delivered the wrong one or that the one he delivered had not called us to the Cross.
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I agree, unfortunately in this day and age of sound bites and talking heads, I doubt if most people will take the time to really study his teachings. (Of course, that’s off topic, 😉 )
 
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John1959:
Not his Catholicism then?

I wonder why?

Because his message was man centered - his writings are littered with humanist sentiments.

(To the moderator: Banned twice now! I think I have been unjustly treated by the way - I have been trying to point out why people like Britney think hes cool - and its not because of anything Catholic)
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It is against the rules to discuss moderators action on the thread you will have to PM them .:nope:
 
How do we explain the sinners that, while Jesus on earth, approached Him and He ate with them. Prostitutes, taxpayers, those Pharisees who were spriritually proud (not all pharisees were bad),Jesus never turned them away. But I do believe He may have said to them personnally. We have no idea if most of them converted. The Bible does not state that. All these actors are too narcissistic probably to see beyond their belly buttons. BUT there is always hope that one or two of them have converted. How can we know for sure?

I understand what you are are saying John. But we cannot judge the Pope’s motivations in his actions. There are some things that are not totally kosher that has happened under his reign. I doubt we will fully understand this man of great depth while here on earth.

The other thing is the word that Jesus gave St Faustina. He said that he would send a spark from Poland (up ot now that would JP2). And that this spark would ready the world for His final coming…the Virgin said the same thing. Now, we do not have to beleive anything from private revelation (not even Fatima) but in St Faustina there have been prophecies that came true. It is this that we should base our decisions on.

Yes, Russia has spread her errors throughout the world.It is a no-brainer. But nobodysy has to believe this to gain life eternal. It certainly would be wise to listen though…🙂

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
So, back to the original topic (ahem, 1959)

Is this thing going to be televised?
 
Is there a world record for number of times someone has been banned (four so far)?

Seriously, I don’t understand why I am being banned. I have legitimate concerns and this thread was an appropriate place to dicuss the actions of Pope John Paul II and his relationship with “the world”.

How come we can “dialogue” with every false religion under the sun but as soon as someone questions the disaterous actions of the Church since 1965 they are cast out.

Its a real puzzle.

As for “learning from our mistakes” as at Assisi, we went and repeated it in 2000.

I don’t think the Church has learned anything.

We invited people to our Church to break the FIRST commandment.

And of course the Britneys of this world would just love this kind of thing because its all part of the “coca-cola I’d like to teach the world to sing peace love and harmony” vibe.

The Church has a mission, and that is to call the Britneys and all sinners (me included) to repentance and belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

We have obviously been failing in that mission for over 40 years now.

Peace and love (man).

John
 
John__19_59:
And of course the Britneys of this world would just love this kind of thing because its all part of the “coca-cola I’d like to teach the world to sing peace love and harmony” vibe.

The Church has a mission, and that is to call the Britneys and all sinners (me included) to repentance and belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
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A mission that John Paul the Great was faithful in pursuing. He constantly called the world “to repentance and belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.” If you missed that, then I wonder where you’ve been for 26 years. I can agree with you that the Barney the Dinosaur “I love you, you love me, we’re a happy family” mentality is prevalent, I just deny that HHJPII had anything to with it! He was completely counter-cultural, to employ a hippy term. He was kind, he was respectful, but he also made the Church’s mission clear.
 
He constantly called the world “to repentance and belief in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.”
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I totally disagree (no surprise there).

He virtually told people that belief in Jesus Christ was not essential.

He specifically told the Jews “the old covenant is still valid” and the Muslims (a speech had made in a Muslim country where he said that we should work together, he promised we wouldn’t proselytise - and he didn’t mention Christ once - I’ll try to find it).

He also hinted at universal salvation (empty hell), again why do we bother converting people if everyones ultimate destiny is heaven.

And I don’t think he called for repentance too often (unless you were a traditional Catholic).
 
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