Still ripping on Covington Catholic

[HarryStotle]

Given that, I think it’s better if people don’t wear clothes containing slogans or anything connected to what is currently controversial, or even things that advertise commercial products and personalities, at least at Mass. Their Sunday best would be much better.

Perhaps parishioners ought to keep absolutely silent about everything because someone might find whatever you say “controversial,” even more than what you wear.

That implies all serious and important topics for discussion ought to be avoided completely because it might stir discord and controversy. We ought to be limited to bland talk about the weather and issuing polite complements on attire, then?

Superficial and insipid conversation so that we all become superficial and insipid?

Whatever happened to “food for thought?”

Does God want us to search for truth at all cost, or merely whitewash it to make it acceptable to everyone?

There was a reason why Jesus was crucified, and it wasn’t because he kept his “sloganeering” (parables and teaching) to himself so as not to offend anyone. He spoke the truth without concern for how it would be received. He also said, “If they persecuted me they will persecute you.”

Perhaps the reason the Church is in decline in the western world is because members of the Church here are saying nothing meaningful, significant or controversial, but are letting the secular world impose a strict code of silence upon us?

 

[prayerrider]

Perhaps the reason the Church is in decline in the western world is because members of the Church here are saying nothing meaningful, significant or controversial, but are letting the secular world impose a strict code of silence upon us?

Agree!
As far as I’m concerned, we should be loud and proud about our Catholic faith. This includes sticking up for persecuted Catholic schools and students, whether they’re local or not.

 

[gracepoole]

ralfyman:

Given that, I think it’s better if people don’t wear clothes containing slogans or anything connected to what is currently controversial, or even things that advertise commercial products and personalities, at least at Mass. Their Sunday best would be much better.

Perhaps parishioners ought to keep absolutely silent about everything because someone might find whatever you say “controversial,” even more than what you wear.

That implies all serious and important topics for discussion ought to be avoided completely because it might stir discord and controversy. We ought to be limited to bland talk about the weather and issuing polite complements on attire, then?

Superficial and insipid conversation so that we all become superficial and insipid?

Whatever happened to “food for thought?”

Does God want us to search for truth at all cost, or merely whitewash it to make it acceptable to everyone?

There was a reason why Jesus was crucified, and it wasn’t because he kept his “sloganeering” (parables and teaching) to himself so as not to offend anyone. He spoke the truth without concern for how it would be received. He also said, “If they persecuted me they will persecute you.”

Perhaps the reason the Church is in decline in the western world is because members of the Church here are saying nothing meaningful, significant or controversial, but are letting the secular world impose a strict code of silence upon us?

Why are we at Mass? Would it be acceptable to wear a slogan of some sort while we’re at the foot of the cross during Christ’s crucifixion?

 

[HarryStotle]

Why are we at Mass? Would it be acceptable to wear a slogan of some sort while we’re at the foot of the cross during Christ’s crucifixion?

Wearing a hoodie from a Catholic High School is not a “slogan of some sort.” The Covington students did absolutely nothing to create a controversy because they had every right to express their support for a pro-life cause and a pro-life president.

I would agree with you that wearing a MAGA hat to Mass would be inappropriate, but the fact that the school was inadvertently brought into a precipitated attack by activists is not a reason to abandon the Catholic school or throw it under the bus.

A school hoodie or a blazer, etc., is NOT a “slogan of some sort.” Let’s be clear.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

Why are we at Mass? Would it be acceptable to wear a slogan of some sort while we’re at the foot of the cross during Christ’s crucifixion?

Wearing a hoodie from a Catholic High School is not a “slogan of some sort.” The Covington students did absolutely nothing to create a controversy because they had every right to express their support for a pro-life cause and a pro-life president.

I would agree with you that wearing a MAGA hat to Mass would be inappropriate, but the fact that the school was inadvertently brought into a precipitated attack by activists is not a reason to abandon the Catholic school or throw it under the bus.

A school hoodie or a blazer, etc., is NOT a “slogan of some sort.” Let’s be clear.

Let’s. This is what you said earlier:

That implies all serious and important topics for discussion ought to be avoided completely because it might stir discord and controversy. We ought to be limited to bland talk about the weather and issuing polite complements on attire, then?

The question is when is it appropriate – and when isn’t it – to invite discussions by wearing specific clothing? And again I’ll ask if it’s appropriate to do so at the foot of the cross while Christ is being crucified.

 

[HarryStotle]

The question is when is it appropriate – and when isn’t it – to invite discussions by wearing specific clothing? And again I’ll ask if it’s appropriate to do so at the foot of the cross while Christ is being crucified.

Well, we might ask whether it is appropriate for a woman, “at the foot of the cross while Christ is being crucified,” to begin castigating those around her for wearing a particular article of clothing?

Seems to me she was the agent who provoked the issue to begin with, so your question ought to be directed squarely into her court, in the first place. No one “invited” her to discuss anything. She initiated the discussion.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

The question is when is it appropriate – and when isn’t it – to invite discussions by wearing specific clothing? And again I’ll ask if it’s appropriate to do so at the foot of the cross while Christ is being crucified.

Well, we might ask whether it is appropriate for a woman, “at the foot of the cross while Christ is being crucified,” to begin castigating those around her for wearing a particular article of clothing?

Of course it isn’t. That doesn’t justify others’ choices.

 

[HarryStotle]

Of course it isn’t. That doesn’t justify others’ choices.

What? Their choice to wear a hoodie with a Catholic School Logo on it requires justification?

Our parish has vests and hoodies with the parish logo on it. Are you saying that if individuals from our parish had been in the place of the Covington students, we ought not wear our hoodies and vests with the parish logo on it to Mass any longer?

Sorry, you haven’t made anything like a compelling case for your view.

 

[gracepoole]

Yet again, let’s review your own statements:

That implies all serious and important topics for discussion ought to be avoided completely because it might stir discord and controversy. We ought to be limited to bland talk about the weather and issuing polite complements on attire, then?

If you don’t want to wear clothing for the purpose of eliciting discussion, perhaps you shouldn’t dilute your own argument by claiming as much.

 

[prayerrider]

Seems to me she was the agent who provoked the issue to begin with, so your question ought to be directed squarely into her court, in the first place. No one “ invited ” her to discuss anything. She initiated the discussion.

Exactly. I got away from the woman as quickly and politely as possible.
I couldn’t even tell you what people around me at Mass were wearing last Sunday. Probably couldn’t even recall much right after Mass. I don’t care. Though apparently some do.

 

[prayerrider]

Well, we might ask whether it is appropriate for a woman, “at the foot of the cross while Christ is being crucified,” to begin castigating those around her for wearing a particular article of clothing?

Clearly the only appropriate attire for a woman in such a situation is something like this:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[ralfyman]

I think wearing the garment should also ask the same question.

 

[ralfyman]

Why do you equate avoidance of wearing such clothing with a whitewash, and wearing such clothing but avoiding debate on it as a search for truth at all cost? And why do you want to search for the truth at all cost? Shouldn’t there be a way of addressing this issue without provocation?

 

[HarryStotle]

Why do you equate avoidance of wearing such clothing with a whitewash, and wearing such clothing but avoiding debate on it as a search for truth at all cost?

No one suggested avoiding debate or discussion.

Debate or discussion is conducted between two parties with a mutual desire to know the truth.

When one party remonstrates and castigates the other party just for holding a position that is obviously true given the evidence, there hasn’t been established an opportunity for open dialogue.

Perhaps the OP misspoke or was merely adding a touch of sarcasm by using the word “debate?”

Then she launched into accusations against the students, basically stuff that was being said the first day or two after the incident. I reminded her that subsequent information showed otherwise. She seemed to want to persist in debating it.

 

[ralfyman]

What is that position held and what is that truth? Was there a desire to debate because there might be more to that position and truth?

 

[prayerrider]

I believe there is nothing to debate about the Covington Catholic students. That is why I won’t debate it with anyone. Not some woman after Mass, not you, not anyone. Those boys did nothing wrong. Their own bishop exonerated them. I support the school and if somebody doesn’t like that, tough. End of discussion. Deal with it.

 

[prayerrider]

Got my CovCath football shirts. This one will go well over a collared white polo!!
Maybe I’ll wear a vest with it to Mass, if’n it’s too warm for a jacket.(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[ralfyman]

I was going to ask you about that. That is, if you plan to do the same during the next Mass, if you think that it’s possible that the same and other churchgoers will become angry if they see what you wear, and if you’ll come back here to report what you did and ask us to pray for the same person or others again.

I cannot tell you what to do. All I can say is that in my case, I would rather wear my Sunday best, concentrate on the Mass, and be thankful for whatever peace of mind I and other churchgoers gain from it.

 

[prayerrider]

Why should any Catholic become angry at seeing the words Covington Catholic? Don’t you think they should be glad, knowing that others support Catholic education?

 

[Joe_5859]

Why should any Catholic become angry at seeing the words Covington Catholic ? Don’t you think they should be glad, knowing that others support Catholic education?

That’s really not what the issue is.

Look, I understand how you feel about the kids getting the short end of the stick with all the media hulabaloo. I feel the same way.

But if you plan on regularly wearing Covington Catholic school attire (when you live nowhere near Covington and are only familiar with the school at all because it was in the news), then don’t be surprised if you attract the ire of people who either did not get up to speed on the corrections to the narrative, or else simply do not believe the corrections for whatever reason.

Why people do not buy into the corrections issued is more complicated than thinking they just don’t like Catholic schools. Some people struggle with admitting they are wrong, particularly when it comes to stories where it is framed as “liberal vs. conservative”. Saying they are wrong feels like admitting that Trump is a good president. That might not be reasonable for them to feel that way, but I don’t think it makes them a bad Catholic.

Like it or not, because of the media attention, wearing that shirt is saying more than simply, “I support Catholic education.” That’s just the reality of the situation.