I think a lot of what you think is non-Christian content is actually cultural. I too am against non-Christian content (syncretism) in the Mass. The Church is against it as well. I think we are all on the same page here.
I never said they did that, now did I.
Let’s see. In post 255 you incorrectly assumed that I would be uncomfortable at a Mass in Africa. Why do you think so?27lw:
I never said they did that, now did I.
Here’s 255 reposted. Also, who is this Aaron Falsetto? Is this book approved in some way?27lw:
Don’t know, although I am no Native American expert. BTW, who are “they”? I don’t see this at my parish. Think about who the audience is.
Have you ever seen a Mass in Africa? That’d really make you uncomfortable. Yet, the inculturation process started before VII.
“For decades before Vatican II, African nations had
already begun the process of inculturation in their diocese. They
did so because the Roman Rite, the Latin based style of worship,
did not suit individuals in African nations. Even following the
promulgations of Sacrosanctum Concilium, African bishops were
not satisfied with liturgical reforms because they were based on
Western culture. Therefore, African bishops were required to
bring a foreign tradition of the Roman Rite and mold it into
worship that their people would understand and relate to.”
(The Implementation of the Second Vatican Council: The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy and Sacrosanctum Concilium by BY AARON FALSETTO)
I certainly hope that it is not true. But parts of what might be construed as Voodoo (but are just culture, not religious), may have been incorporated much like in Africa as I noted above.
I think a lot of what you might call liturgical abuses or syncretism is really liturgical inculturation. And that happened before VII and was given more prominence after VII.
Yeah I know if I’m traveling, I bring all my work items in to Mass with me and process in with the tools of my trade.It appears to be a Mass for the visiting Circus people.
Heaven forbid !
I am not.
Because I think you would see something cultural and assume that it was pagan, like you did with the Native American video clip. Do you know FOR SURE that was smudging? How do you know that? Or, did you make a judgment based on your preconceived ideas?
And you know what else? Those clowns were Catholic!
Was your Drum and Bugle Corps associated with a non-Christian religion? Did you read or speak anything that was non-Christian content? If not, sounds okay to me. Especially since the corps belonged to your parish.When I was a kid, my brother and myself belonged to the Drum and Bugle Corps in our parish.
Once a year in the Spring, they had a Mass for us in the Corps and we marched into the church wearing our uniforms, shakels, plombs and instruments.
This was before Vatican II. Was in inappropriate ?
Absolutely not and I can assure you, there were Masses for the traveling circuses before Vatican II and the clowns showed up for Mass in their clown costumes.
Heaven forbid !
Again, it is non-Christian content that I object to.…a huge collective gasp followed by silence just filled the room…
So, no, the clowns didn’t process in or stand around the altar. Or the Knights. Or the drum and bugle corps. Or the aboriginal elders. Priests, the officials of the Church, versed in Church doctrine, celebrating the rites of the Church. No non-Christian content mixed in there.
Well, that answers my question about the Knights of Columbus wearing their plume hats processing before Vatican II.
Seems liturgical inculturation in Africa was beginning decades prior to Vatican II in Africa. I think you might qualify your question to "the difference that Vatican II made in America?
Actually it wasn’t: the second church (Holy Name Parish, Orlando) has their own (in-house) “Holy Molie” Ministry with clown-themed events. No random traveling circus. More info can be be found on their website.
Yes indeed Heaven forbid! Liturgy should be sacred and solemn, and clowns have 0 place there - this shouldn’t be up for debate.