Stop Complaing about Music in Church.

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👍 go, Cat! I am with you! (also an ex-protestant musician) I tend to see things as you do…hang in there. God does want you in His Church! And He is the giver of your gift, use it with all your heart for His glory.
 
For those people who wonder how the lyrics in modern day hymns affect our worship and can even be heretical, here is an interesting article from Adoremus Bulletin by Father Paul Scalia. It’s worth the read. He calls it the cult of conceit.
 
Cat said:
I feel this way when people insult “Gather Us In.” This song made me cry the first time I ever heard it because I thought it was so beautiful, uplifting, cheerful, yet solemn.

My husband and I had been ousted from our Protestant church, and this song made me remember that God wants to “gather us in to His Church.” It made me WANT to become Catholic.

I actually wrote all the words down on a napkin and carried it around with me for weeks and read it as encouragement.

But then I read comments like the one in the article: “We sing the words “gather us in” seven times, extolling the virtues of “we”…”

What this says to me is that I am stupid, undiscerning, self-centered, unspiritual, and musically inept.

I hear the gentleman calling me a fool, even if that is not his intent.

Jesus said that if we call someone a fool, we are in danger of hell-fire.

Another song that I absolutely love is “Here I Am, Lord.” This was the song that was playing at the Rite of Election at our Cathedral. One of my heroes, Bishop Thomas Doran, was waiting at the front of the Cathedral to welcome the thousand of us who were coming into the Church that year, and the whole time, the organist (pipe organ) and Cathedral Choir were playing and singing “Here I Am, Lord.”

According to the gentleman who wrote the article, “Here I Am, Lord” is self-centered, empty, sentimental, no reverence, etc."

Look up Bishop Thomas Doran. You’ll find that he’s one of the CHAMPIONS of correct liturgy in the Mass.

Is HE “self-centered, empty, sentimental, irreverent, etc.” because he allows “Here I Am, Lord” to be sung at the Rite of Election? And is he a fool because the **theme song **on his weekly radio show is “Gather Us In?”

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Cat, you hit the nail on the head.

These are SONGS, not HYMNS. Songs are great, I like songs. I sing songs often.

However, at Church, we sing HYMNS, Praise to God.

We don’t go to sing songs.
 
Cat said:
I’m sad that several of you seemed to have missed #11 in my initial posts.

Please go back and read it again. I have NOT said anything against Gregorian chant and other traditional forms of music. I would appreciate it if you didn’t make me out to be a reprobate.

And never have I said that it’s OK to use Barney songs in Mass. Please, I beg you, don’t dress me up like a villainess. It’s not right to post phrases and attribute them to me. It’s slander, which is a form of lying.

Please, be kinder.

I’ve read several Catholic histories of music over the last few weeks while I’ve been convalescing (surgery), and with all due respect, I think some of you are quoting selectively to make it look like only chant and polyphony are allowed and all other forms and styles of music are forbidden.

This is simply not true. I don’t have the time right now to provide quotes, but perhaps some of the rest of you can. When I return from work (half-day), I’ll get back to this, if the thread hasn’t been shut down by then due to meanness.

Also, those history books made it clear that throughout the ages, from the very beginning of the Catholic church during the First Century, people have been complaining about the music in church. The first major controversy was whether it was appropriate to use instruments in church. Instruments were considered “pagan,” so the general consensus was, “No instruments in church.” But the Old Testament makes it clear that instruments can be used in an assembly of God’s people. So others used instruments.

Another big controversy was women singing in church. For the first three centuries, women sang along with the men. Then this practice was eliminated and only men sang. Then women got to sing again.

The list goes on and on. Every time a new musical style developed, it was questioned by the Church. Now I’m not sure from the history texts if this means that the laypeople questioned it or the clergy–I assume the clergy, but I don’t know.

Almost every time, the new style of music was eventually incorporated in to the liturgy.

Almost every papacy seems to have inititiaed some kind of “study” of music in the church.

So yes, complaints have been the rule since the Church started.

Whew–I can’t believe how many people are willing to defend complaining. It’s kind of scary. NOW WAIT–I DID NOT SAY that you should accept true liturgical abuse. DON’T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH! I’m talking about the complaining like “That song is so babyish, a child could have written it.”

Maybe a child did. Have you ever thought about that? So what’s wrong with the kid’s music? Sure, not constantly. But once in while, it’s good to remember that our Lord came to earth as a little, helpless BABY. It’s GOOD to remember that, and maybe these childish songs that you hate so much will remind you of that mystery.
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Right on! đź‘Ť

One pope hated the violin,(his assistant played the violin) so, he banned it from the liturgy. After he died, his assistant was elected pope and he removed the ban.

The argument I’ve seen, in this forum, which a new thread on the subject is opened every week it seems, have more to do with taste in music than anything else.

Generally I’ve come to the conclusion to ignore threads on liturgical music, but this one was in the opposite direction and again, right on!

Jim
 
Remember also that parishes tend to become self-selecting groups with respect to the music they are given. People who like that music will stay (and others who like that music will come), while people who don’t like that music will tend to go elsewhere. So just because “they all” like music style X doesn’t mean much. What about those who don’t come any more, or don’t speak up?

So once again we should fall back on what the Church actually calls for in her sacred music, whether they be old compositions or new ones. Play all the contemporary sacred music you want. Just make sure it has the proper quality, beauty, holiness and suitability of form as called for by the Church (and in reality there’s just not that much that fits the bill to make a steady diet of it).
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The argument I’ve seen, in this forum, which a new thread on the subject is opened every week it seems, have more to do with taste in music than anything else.
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I see such false claims over and over and over and over, and I think such claims are made because the people who make them know they can’t argue their choices based on the actual documents of the Church.
 
VociMike said:
I see such false claims over and over and over and over, and I think such claims are made because the people who make them know they can’t argue their points based on the actual documents of the Church.
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Nah, we’re just arguing over your interpretation of the church documents.

If what you say is correct, the hymnals which we use in church, which are approved by the Bishops, would not be allowed, because they have many of the hymns folks in here complain about, i.e. “Gather us In.”

Jim
 
VociMike said:
I see such false claims over and over and over and over, and I think such claims are made because the people who make them know they can’t argue their points based on the actual documents of the Church.
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If people realize that the lyrics of many of these songs proclaim us to ourselves, would they still want them for the liturgy?
 
paramedicgirl said:
If people realize that the lyrics of many of these songs proclaim us to ourselves, would they still want them for the liturgy?
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Probably. It’s likely they don’t see that as a problem. Maybe even a good thing.
 
paramedicgirl said:
I already posted a link. Here it is again.
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The author’s poor interpretation and twist on the words of the hymns.

The author can’t handle the fact that Jesus invites us all to the table he has set for us.

The song is a celebration of the invitation Jesus has given all of us. How can that be anything other than joyful?

Jim
 
“If what you say is correct, the hymnals which we use in church, which are approved by the Bishops, would not be allowed, because they have many of the hymns folks in here complain about, i.e. “Gather us In.””

Let us remember just what “approval” means. Much like an imprimatur, it only says “I (the undersigned) find this work to be free of error” but that Ordinary may completely disagree with it and its not even infallible. So what does episcopal approval of a hymnal really amount to? Not a whole lot, other than “it’s not manifestly heretical”.

We also must remember that the Church doesn’t throw the book at every little problem. There are bigger fish to fry than poor hymnals, but the bishops were looking into the issue.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The author’s poor interpretation and twist on the words of the hymns.

The author can’t handle the fact that Jesus invites us all to the table he has set for us.

The song is a celebration of the invitation Jesus has given all of us. How can that be anything other than joyful?

Jim
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The author is a Catholic priest.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The author’s poor interpretation and twist on the words of the hymns.

The author can’t handle the fact that Jesus invites us all to the table he has set for us.

The song is a celebration of the invitation Jesus has given all of us. How can that be anything other than joyful?

Jim
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Define what “all” means. Does everyone, no matter what, get “invited to the table” at the “Eucharist celebration”?

That is why the congregation has to sing “we do this, we do that, we, we, we” all the time? There is no twist on words-these songs put the emphasis on “us” and make the emphasis overly horizontal.

That, or utter progressivist nonsense like “sing a new church into being”. What is this “we do all of this” nonsense? If the Lord does not build the house, in vain do the builders labor. I like the present one, built by the Lord, thank you very much!
 
ComradeAndrei said:
Define what “all” means. Does everyone, no matter what, get “invited to the table” at the “Eucharist celebration”?

That is why the congregation has to sing “we do this, we do that, we, we, we” all the time? There is no twist on words-these songs put the emphasis on “us” and make the emphasis overly horizontal.

That, or utter progressivist nonsense like “sing a new church into being”. I like the present one, thank you very much!
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Not only that, but these lyrics seem to forget that the Mass is a sacrifice. They always portray it as only a meal.
 
Brendan said:
Cat, you hit the nail on the head.

These are SONGS, not HYMNS. Songs are great, I like songs. I sing songs often.

However, at Church, we sing HYMNS, Praise to God.

We don’t go to sing songs.
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It could be argued that we really ought not sing HYMNS at Mass, either if we are to keep to the true spirit of the idealized Liturgical preferences.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Not only that, but these lyrics seem to forget that the Mass is a sacrifice. They always portray it as only a meal.
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It reminds me (in a reverse way) of the story of a saint who during the days in which the Arian heresy was in full swing found an Arian church and began replacing the Arian music with Catholic music and ended up converting the Arians back to the true faith.

What better way to propagate the Revolution than with song? Gregorian chant puts the vertical vs. horizontal issue into proper perspective. That just isn’t going to encourage people to think of Mass as a meal in which we gather around the table and share bread and wine in commemoration of Jesus-so ditch it! Bring in the reform-folk…
 
Brendan said:
I would agree, but there are FAR too many songs that spend more time glorifying the congregation instead of God.

This isn’t a matter of musical style, but rather inspidid, self centered lyrics.

“Gather Us In” is a fine example. All it does is focus on the congregation, and what God can do for us.

Never on us giving God the Praise He is due.
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There you go Brendan, I dont like gather us in either. I havent heard most of the others complained about in my parish.
 
chicago said:
It could be argued that we really ought not sing HYMNS at Mass, either if we are to keep to the true spirit of the idealized Liturgical preferences.
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And have silence??? What a novel idea!
 
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