Strong Desire to Attend Mass, But Not Catholic

[Susan_Calvin]

If for some reason it seems as if you are going to die before the scheduled date (if you come down with a serious illness, or have a traumatic accident), they will move it up to accomodate you, but they would do all three Sacraments at the same time; not just Baptism - and you would also receive the Anointing of the Sick, as well.

Yes that’s what my priest told me as well… that I would receive the sacraments pretty much immediately if I were dying. But otherwise he would prefer I study, learn and ponder what I am doing for a few months, before making the commitment. I am still extremely new to all of this. I only started attending mass about 6 weeks ago! Its really not that long. Plus he mentioned this:

1. In new areas where the Gospel is being preached, the Baptism of adults is very common. In such cases, the catechism serves the purpose of preparing the adult into the Christian faith and life to receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and the Holy Eucharist. (C.C.C. # 1247-9)

I haven’t learned the catechism yet, or rather, I am just starting. He’s also concerned that because I am so new I may not know what is a grave sin and what isn’t… I mean obviously if I don’t realize its a grave sin then its not as bad… Still though, I have been surprised a couple of times already by things he has told me are not permitted by the Church. I don’t want to rush things, I don’t want to be committing sins and going against the Church unknowingly, I think that would really upset me. I need to learn more.

On a side note, I just realized Jesus was baptized as an adult also, as I read that part of the gospel recently. I’m excited to share something in common with Him.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

There are complexities and nuances I always miss and often different levels of meaning.

Yes and I wasn’t meaning to infer I’m a spiritual genius or anything, because I am sooo far from that!! I am planning to read the book over a couple of times. Even with regular books, if I read them more than once, I discover new things I missed the first time around, so how much more so with a book such as this! Actually I’ve been taking notes as I go along also. I figure it will be interesting to read my original notes when I go through the book a second time, see what new insights I have gained and so on. I do really love it though and can’t wait to read The Interior Castle also.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

The problem with all these “innovations” isn’t really about not liking change or it being a bad thing (otherwise our masses would all still be in Latin), it’s that a lot of these practices seem to turn into the Mass into something more about the people than about worshiping God because some of the reverence is lost.

This is a part of the Catholic Church which I’m having some difficulties understanding. Like, from reading here upon the forums, how masses can be different in “minor” ways than what I have experienced so far, and that people are very upset about it and there is controversy and so on. I’ve read a lot in the Liturgy and Sacraments section and I’ve noticed that there are many topics that even have moratoriums because they are so controversial. Most of this stuff though, I have not personally observed happening, just read about it here on the forum. In many ways, I am very grateful to be learning the mass and the faith where I am and not back home. I think I would be extremely confused in that case. I’m also very grateful that my priest is very good, very “by the book” about everything and very matter of fact, he doesn’t water anything down for me or sugar coat things. Different times when I’ve said something (unknowingly) that is against the Catholic Church, he is very blunt with me and just says “we don’t do that”. I really appreciate his attitude, it makes things much easier for me.

 

[Liraco]

Good to know that he goes “by the book”. The problem with a lot of these minor changes or even things that shouldn’t be done at all isn’t always the fault of the priest as sometimes they weren’t taught properly so they don’t know any better. This is why if someone does observe something being done that shouldn’t be, then one can talk to the priest or (later) the Bishop to help set them straight.

Which is **exactly **why it seems like your priest doesn’t want you to rush things, which is why you’re going through a period of learning. You obviously won’t know it all by the time you’re baptized (there’s just so much!), but you’ll certainly need a solid foundation to grow properly in the faith: building on rock instead of over sand as the parable says.

In my own case I realize just how little attention I must have given my teachers for my first communion and confirmation because only recently have I come to see what being Catholic really means (thanks in no small part to catholic podcasts like CAL).

 

[jmcrae]

1. In new areas where the Gospel is being preached, the Baptism of adults is very common. In such cases, the catechism serves the purpose of preparing the adult into the Christian faith and life to receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and the Holy Eucharist. (C.C.C. # 1247-9)

I haven’t learned the catechism yet, or rather, I am just starting. He’s also concerned that because I am so new I may not know what is a grave sin and what isn’t… I mean obviously if I don’t realize its a grave sin then its not as bad… Still though, I have been surprised a couple of times already by things he has told me are not permitted by the Church. I don’t want to rush things, I don’t want to be committing sins and going against the Church unknowingly, I think that would really upset me. I need to learn more.

Yes, exactly! Take all the time you need - there is a lot to know!

I took a long time to complete my studies (I won’t scare you by mentioning how long), and I’m glad that I took the time, because it was nice for me to know about and be able to claim the special Indulgences that one receives when one converts, and it was also really nice to have thoroughly researched my Patron Saint (Saint Teresa of Avila, as it turns out) - and I really felt like I was good and ready to take up the Catholic lifestyle, 100%.

On a side note, I just realized Jesus was baptized as an adult also, as I read that part of the gospel recently. I’m excited to share something in common with Him.

 

[luminoushope]

This is a part of the Catholic Church which I’m having some difficulties understanding. Like, from reading here upon the forums, how masses can be different in “minor” ways than what I have experienced so far, and that people are very upset about it and there is controversy and so on. I’ve read a lot in the Liturgy and Sacraments section and I’ve noticed that there are many topics that even have moratoriums because they are so controversial.

This is an aspect of my conversion process that grieves me very much. For example, I was specifically instructed by Father, who is a wonderful, holy old Irish priest, to “go up for a blessing”. Then I found on the forums that some people are very upset by this practice and scornful of it. I learned the “Act of Spiritual Communion”, which I posted for you a while back, and which I love, so that is a good consequence.

In the end I decided to obey Father and not worry about some of the posts. I felt like a while ago this thread was in danger of distraction over the “issue” of going up for a blessing. Since the Catholic Church is so vast, and since diversity is permitted in some things, I have chosen to look mostly at what is right in front of me and follow the instructions I am given. Beyond that, I remember that we are all sinful people in need of our Savior, whose overwhelming demand upon us is that we love.

You mentioned feeling like you were getting a late start in this at 30. Well, I will be 60 in three months! I try not to waste even one heartbeat or breath wishing I were younger. I am grateful to have lived these years and that God has brought me to this point, now. I also enjoyed your mention of Jesus being baptized at 33. I was 33 when I was baptized–and I hadn’t thought about that for quite a while till you mentioned it!

Grace and peace to you and all,

Luminous Hope

 

[jmcrae]

This is a part of the Catholic Church which I’m having some difficulties understanding. Like, from reading here upon the forums, how masses can be different in “minor” ways than what I have experienced so far, and that people are very upset about it and there is controversy and so on.

As time goes on, you’ll begin to discern which issues are important, and which ones are simply a matter of “I would prefer it to be done a different way.” Priests do have a certain amount of leeway in how they run their parishes, and how they say Mass - there are certain minimum standards, however, and there are times when those minimums aren’t met.

I’ve read a lot in the Liturgy and Sacraments section and I’ve noticed that there are many topics that even have moratoriums because they are so controversial. Most of this stuff though, I have not personally observed happening, just read about it here on the forum. In many ways, I am very grateful to be learning the mass and the faith where I am and not back home. I think I would be extremely confused in that case. I’m also very grateful that my priest is very good, very “by the book” about everything and very matter of fact, he doesn’t water anything down for me or sugar coat things.

Different times when I’ve said something (unknowingly) that is against the Catholic Church, he is very blunt with me and just says “we don’t do that”. I really appreciate his attitude, it makes things much easier for me.

I agree. The first person who taught me the faith was very ecumenical, which is very nice, but not at all useful. I didn’t convert at that time, because I didn’t see any good, overriding reason to, even though I was very attracted to Catholic spirituality. I was already a Christian, converting to the Catholic faith would have upset my parents, and it seemed as if the Catholic Church thought I was just fine right where I was. So, I stayed where I was.

It wasn’t until later, when I started encountering priests who didn’t think like that, that I really started to pursue it more seriously - and then someone said to me, “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic,” which, in my case was the one missing piece of the puzzle, and from that point on, wild animals couldn’t have kept me out of the RCIA.

 

[CSUNGerrie]

On a side note, I just realized Jesus was baptized as an adult also, as I read that part of the gospel recently. I’m excited to share something in common with Him.

hahaha… your so cute. :hug1:

 

[Susan_Calvin]

This is truly amazing. Here the truth comes out, and there are possibilities for healing for your friend and everyone around her (for her situation, too, is like throwing a rock into a pond). These possibilities would never have existed had you not come into the Faith. It is amazing to see how God works.

Yes I know, isn’t it amazing?? I was quite stunned. It certainly explains things for me, explains her extreme reaction. I was upset with her initially, but I’m glad I tried to remain open to the situation and didn’t totally write her off. To be honest, I haven’t always given people that many chances when they do something hurtful. I’ve been hurt so many times in my life, that for a few years there, I couldn’t stand the pain of being hurt anymore. Many times I have just said, OK, stay away from me then, see ya, wouldn’t want to be ya, have a nice life, etc. In this case we have been close friends for a long time, however; I believe God has also assisted me to be more kind in my thoughts and reactions toward her. I am praying for her and I hope to be on speaking terms with her again one day. The situation is very complex but I firmly believe that God can help her. I hope she accepts His help, or at the very least, comes to terms with my decision. I’ll always be around if she does want to speak to me again. I do miss her and I pray for her and her family.

luminoushope:

This is a devastatingly sad situation and the ex-boyfriend needs prayer too. Any living person can be redeemed.

Its funny you mention him, because I am actually struggling with this issue at the moment. I knew him, as he was dating my friend when I first met her. Though I never knew the extent of what was going on until after she left him (she was not very forthcoming about it, which I completely understand), I never liked him. I got a “bad vibe” off him always, which was confirmed for me later on. I know that now I should pray for him, but I’m finding it extremely difficult. I’ve even spoken to the priest about it a bit. You see, he is currently serving time for raping a 10 year old girl, and I have absolutely no sympathy for him. He disgusts me, and its hard to pray for someone who disgusts you. But… I do know the gospel reading from Matthew about loving your enemies and praying for those who persecute you. So I’m going to have to try harder I guess!

luminoushope:

This is an aspect of my conversion process that grieves me very much. For example, I was specifically instructed by Father, who is a wonderful, holy old Irish priest, to “go up for a blessing”. Then I found on the forums that some people are very upset by this practice and scornful of it… In the end I decided to obey Father and not worry about some of the posts.

That’s good you decided to do what he says. If your priest told you to do it, then obviously it is practiced where you live, and I really wouldn’t worry about what anyone else says. I personally do not want to do it, and it is not a custom here in any event, so I can’t. But I’m certainly not judging anyone else, especially if they have been instructed to do so by their priest.

luminoushope:

I felt like a while ago this thread was in danger of distraction over the “issue” of going up for a blessing.

To be honest I’m glad the matter came up in this thread, I was grateful to everyone for discussing it. I found it helpful to me personally, because I was told by some on the forum that I should go up for a blessing, and that was confusing to me. I was happy to have the matter cleared up. Its good for people to be reminded that this is an international forum; not everyone resides in the USA and customs are different depending on where you are in the world. Its also taught me that when in doubt, I should just ask my priest.

 

[luminoushope]

How nice to hear from you! Look how far God has brought you in the matters of not writing people off, and of loving and praying for enemies. That said, thanks to Him that this criminal was caught and is in a place where he can’t hurt anyone else. I deal with the same thing, as I’m sure many do.

One of my first times at Mass was last New Year’s Day. Father spoke about making a special sacrifice to the Lord that day. We were invited to a music party in the afternoon to which I did not want to go, with people I didn’t want to be around. However, my husband did want to go, so off we went, and I found I could just play some music and sincerely greet every citizen in the hall. This was the beginning of my learning about the Catholic concept of sacrifice, which is so precious and worthwhile. Before, I would have known I was making a small sacrifice for my husband, but wouldn’t have thought it an offering to the Lord.

I feel as if since I’ve been pursuing the Catholic Church, all the dimensions of life itself have expanded. I watched a TV interview with a very articulate Muslim Pakistani lady who is a convert to Catholicism. She said when she came to faith it was “like a tsunami.” I can relate, can you?

Regarding what I thought might be a “distraction”, I’m glad you benefited! I guess my baggage is showing. In 27 years in the “other churches” there seemed to be so much “majoring in the minors”, and I just don’t want that in my life any more. However, people are the same everywhere, and if I do have to deal with it, this too could be a small sacrifice. All for Him, His Mother and His Church–they are unspeakably worth it!

No need to reply unless you want to. It’s amazing how this thread has developed!

Blessings, L.H.

 

[Liraco]

and I have absolutely no sympathy for him. He disgusts me, and its hard to pray for someone who disgusts you. But… I do know the gospel reading from Matthew about loving your enemies and praying for those who persecute you. So I’m going to have to try harder I guess!

“Do or do not, there is no try.”

In all seriousness though, I can certainly imagine it being hard but rather than feel disgusted, realize that he is very obviously broken and is in deep need of prayer to help him turn around. While not a direct comparison, imagine if you did something horrible and you came to repent for it, wouldn’t you want to be forgiven? Then in his case we must pray that he does indeed repent and convert to seek that forgiveness and receive it. Underneath whatever horrible sins one has committed, there is still a person, a loving soul, and it’s obvious that he is in deep need of love despite how he sought it in such a twisted manner.

Being made in the image and likeness of God, who IS love, we are all made and called to love too. So when you pray for him don’t think of his sins, think of a broken person who seeks love and helping to give him that love through those prayers. Think of him as a brother who fell down a deep hole, and you reach out your hand and hope that he’ll take it to get back out.

In the end we’re all family, and we all want to see each other do well. Remember Mother Theresa and all those people who prayed for you to go down the right path. Now “pay it forward” and pray for him and those like him to find the right path too. I’ll be praying for him too.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Look how far God has brought you in the matters of not writing people off, and of loving and praying for enemies. That said, thanks to Him that this criminal was caught and is in a place where he can’t hurt anyone else. I deal with the same thing, as I’m sure many do.

Yes I’m very amazed at how much better I have become at forgiving people. Not everyone, but its a start. Honestly, I don’t think its me, but rather God giving me the strength, grace, or however you wish to describe it. My pastor says its the Holy Spirit. In any event though, I agree with you, I am glad he is in prison and can’t hurt anyone else. I was raped as a young girl myself, and it is devastating. Its very difficult for me to think of him charitably. I don’t wish him pain and suffering, so I guess that’s a start. But at the same time, I think of all the lives ruined because of his actions, and also my own experience. I do believe that God will help me with this. It will be probably be the most difficult thing for me to forgive honestly, so I’m being patient with myself.

luminoushope:

One of my first times at Mass was last New Year’s Day. Father spoke about making a special sacrifice to the Lord that day. We were invited to a music party in the afternoon to which I did not want to go, with people I didn’t want to be around. However, my husband did want to go, so off we went, and I found I could just play some music and sincerely greet every citizen in the hall. This was the beginning of my learning about the Catholic concept of sacrifice, which is so precious and worthwhile. Before, I would have known I was making a small sacrifice for my husband, but wouldn’t have thought it an offering to the Lord.

I know what you mean. I am almost always able to relate things said in mass to myself and my daily life, usually for that very same day. Its like the morning mass contains a special “instruction” for me for that day… how I must conduct myself, a sacrifice as you mention, or something special I should do. One day at mass Father was mentioning seeing Christ in everyone, and treating everyone as if they were Jesus (which reminds me of Mother, that was the sort of thing she would say also). Later on that same day, I was at the train station and there was a very unkempt, scary looking homeless man walking around the platform attempting to speak to people. He seemed pretty out of it from my estimation. His nose had been bleeding and there was dried blood crusted on his face. I think he may have been in a fight, or had fallen down, not sure. Anyhow, people kept turning away from him. I wasn’t disgusted with him, as I was homeless myself as a kid, but I was a bit afraid - I wasn’t sure what he wanted from people. I had to walk by him, and I was a bit nervous, so I quickly prayed to not feel afraid, and remembered what Father had said about seeing Jesus in everyone. When I walked by him, he approached me as he’d been approaching others. He was very polite. He said excuse me miss, would you please tie my shoelaces. I then noticed that his hands were badly cut up and swollen, and of course his shoelaces were untied. So I said yes, and I bent down and tied them. He was really happy, gave me a big smile and said thank you and left the platform. I wished I could have done something else for him, but it seems all he wanted was for someone to tie his shoes. Anyhow… I have experiences like that now. Usually related to what I have heard in mass. Not usually as dramatic as that example, but its always something. I just have to be open to receiving whatever the “instruction” is for that day.

I very much enjoy going to mass every day, I find it really keeps me focused. I can’t imagine how much more I will appreciate it once I am able to receive the sacraments. I’m very excited!

luminoushope:

I feel as if since I’ve been pursuing the Catholic Church, all the dimensions of life itself have expanded. I watched a TV interview with a very articulate Muslim Pakistani lady who is a convert to Catholicism. She said when she came to faith it was “like a tsunami.” I can relate, can you?

Yes definitely!

luminoushope:

Regarding what I thought might be a “distraction”, I’m glad you benefited! I guess my baggage is showing. In 27 years in the “other churches” there seemed to be so much “majoring in the minors”, and I just don’t want that in my life any more. However, people are the same everywhere, and if I do have to deal with it, this too could be a small sacrifice. All for Him, His Mother and His Church–they are unspeakably worth it!

I’m sorry that’s been your experience, its not my experience, but I understand what you’re saying. I don’t like petty stuff either. I haven’t experienced at church yet but I have in other areas of life. I try not to let it get to me. I tend to think that someone who concentrates on really small matters, harps on them and constantly criticizes must be a very unhappy person. I feel badly for such a person, I’ve been in bad places in my life before, where I was very unhappy and negative. So now I would be inclined to pray for someone like that. And as you say, look at it as an opportunity to develop myself spiritually. I now believe strongly that God places an irritating situation in front of me to help me learn something.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Her reaction is completely understandable, and remains a product of how she still views the entire situation. Your example to her will reveal that her experience was not genuine.

She is a “real” Catholic though, correct? She was baptized and confirmed. Does it matter that she was essentially coerced? I assume her conversion is still valid?

po18guy:

She may even resent you more as she sees the peace and joy that you now possess.

She has admitted in the past she was jealous of me for various things so its entirely possible. I hope though she feels better about everything, I’ve been jealous of people myself and its very painful and hard to stop feeling that way. I don’t wish it on anyone, and I hope she feels better sooner rather than later. Since I found out about her bad association with being Catholic I have nothing but compassion for her. I knew she had a bad time with her boyfriend but I have a feeling she hasn’t told me much, maybe just the tip of the iceberg. Even if she doesn’t want to speak to me anymore, I really hope she finds peace in her life. Especially also because she is a mother to 2 very sweet boys. I want them to be happy too.

po18guy:

It’s a two-fer!

I’ve never heard that term haha. I guess its like two for one or buy one, get one free?

po18guy:

As to your friend, patience and prayer will open her eyes to the beauty that you have experienced and are embracing. The difference in your case is that you felt God’s call, and without knowing why at the time, responded to it. She did not want to feel His invitation, and is still pushing away from it.

Its possible also I think, that its just not the right time for her… looking back, I can see where God was possibly calling me years ago already, but I was wasn’t ready or prepared to do anything. It took some time and lots of prompting. I hope though that if and when the time is right she listens to the call.

po18guy:

Adoration is the most underutilized blessing in the Church. We read scripture regarding how the crowds gathered around Jesus when He spoke. Adoration is His presence among us, and the crowds should be just as large - if we truly believed that it is Him! Spending time with our Lord is a most peaceful and spirit-enhancing experience. I have seen absolutely supernatural things occur while in prayer before Him - minor miracles, actually. Lately, I cannot take my eyes off of Him when I am with Him.

Its sad that it is underutilized… I really love it! I don’t understand why people aren’t flocking to it, I really don’t… I agree with you, it is so peaceful and I’m so glad I discovered it!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

I think this explains a lot, like why things are going so fast for you. She is behind what is happening to you. Her soul goes to its reward and is with God. She tells him this one, Judith, is mine. I care for her and love her. I want some special graces for her that will draw her to holiness quickly.

Just my specualtion.

I think you are speculating correctly; at least, I believe that too. I can’t imagine I have been all this by myself, or on my own merit. I must be having her help, and the help of all the prayers for me over the years. There really is no other explanation IMHO.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

The thought of St. Thomas is more in the area of systematic theology. He takes what God reveals and analyzes it intellectually and builds on it to develop an amazing body of knowledge. It is kind of like using logic to build a math system. If A is true and B is true then C…

Oooh I think I might enjoy reading him then! I am a systematic thinker and I love logic.

grandfather:

Anyway, you might be interested in something Saint Thomas said. God is so much “above” us, that we can only learn things about God by analogy. God is infinite and we are finite. An analogy might be, you can do processes on the computer you use at work that you can not do on your handheld calculator. Our minds can not contain God.

Thanks for the analogy of the calculator vs. the computer… that is really interesting, and of course I can glean a lot from it… I’m such a geek! Seriously though, its a good analogy. A modern calculator is not exactly a computer, though it does contain a “piece” of a computer, a kind of microprocessor called an embedded system. This type of microprocessor is similar at its core to the microprocessor found in a personal computer or even a super computer, but it is less powerful and typically has instructions for its operation etched in silicon, which makes it firmware. Firmware cannot be altered. So in that sense, it is finite, just like us! So you could say it has a piece of a more powerful computer in it, just as we have a “piece of God” in us.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

St. Thomas Aquinas ~ 1200 AD ] was probably the greatest writer of the second thousand years of Christianity. St. Augustine ~ 300 AD ]was probably the greatest writer of the first thousand years of Christianity. Both authors are still “in print”. Augustine’s sermons are on the internet.

Aquinas wrote a LOT. And you’re better off reading Aquinas in a Latin-English edition, because some of the more recent translations are, in my opinion, poorly done … so you’re better off sometimes going back and forth between the Latin and the English … so that if something sounds confusing in the English, you can refer back to the Latin … even if it is a struggle. Most decent Catholic college libraries have hundreds of Aquinas’ books.

Thank you for all this information. My priest mentioned St. Augustine to me. I am going to check the university library the next time I am there, to see what they have. I’m interested to read both Aquinas and Augustine, though I do need to concentrate on my catechism as well!
Al Masetti:

EVEN SO, even with the extensive writing and studying and thinking, one day Aquinas was given a vision of Heaven … and afterwards, he tried to burn his own work because he felt it was so inadequate. He said it was “like straw”.

I noticed St. Teresa of Avila says pretty much the same thing about her writing. In the Way of Perfection she apologizes to her Sisters for not writing well, and she instructs the priest reading her manuscript to burn it if he thinks its no good.
Al Masetti:

I just wanted to post that because there is a tendency among some to try to make God into our image and likeness … to try to describe the Infinite God in human terms [which after all is reasonable because we humans are … human and finite]. But Aquinas, when he was given a glimpse of the Real Infinite God in God’s terms, realized how far short of the mark, how inadequate, even his own eloquent writing was.

Yes I understand what you are saying, totally. I consider St. Teresa’s writing to be awesome… but if she thinks its substandard, how much infinitely greater must God really be! Thank you for sharing that with me.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

When I read spiritual treatises I get stuck. I read a few sentences and wonder about them for hours and can’t move on. I also discover things I missed and wonder how I could have missed them. It seems impossible to me to grasp the entire meaning of something that is very deep on the first pass. There are complexities and nuances I always miss and often different levels of meaning.

Hmm. Maybe I am reading too fast and missing some of the things which you are catching. I re-read paragraphs here and there but for the most part I have been reading fairly quickly. In any event I am taking notes on my thoughts and I am going to read it more than once for sure. I’m not going to do it now, but I am thinking in the future sometime I might like to take a couple of university classes relating to this. At a Catholic university of course…

grandfather:

There is a difference between knowing about something and knowing the thing. We can know about God without knowing God. Your soul is made to know God, intimately, not from a distance.

That is a really great statement. I love how you explain things, it makes so much sense to me, thank you!

Once again I have run out of free time and I am still not caught up with this thread, but thanks again all for the comments.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Thank you for all this information. My priest mentioned St. Augustine to me. I am going to check the university library the next time I am there, to see what they have. I’m interested to read both Aquinas and Augustine, though I do need to concentrate on my catechism as well!

I noticed St. Teresa of Avila says pretty much the same thing about her writing. In the Way of Perfection she apologizes to her Sisters for not writing well, and she instructs the priest reading her manuscript to burn it if he thinks its no good.

Yes I understand what you are saying, totally. I consider St. Teresa’s writing to be awesome… but if she thinks its substandard, how much infinitely greater must God really be! Thank you for sharing that with me.

We are giving you quite a reading list!!



There is an EXCELLENT book on St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.

amazon.com/Fire-Within-Teresa-Gospel-Prayer/dp/0898702631/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

Fr. Dubay often gives lectures on EWTN. Really excellent.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I don’t know the technical answer to your question about the validity of your friend’s conversion, but I do know that back when I was in college, 15 years before I converted, I went to Mass with a friend, and she mistakenly encouraged me to receive our Lord in the Eucharist. I was Christian, and I received with an open heart, though I had been taught against transsubstantiation.

Years later, when I next set foot into a Mass, Jesus called to me from the tabernacle, with unmistakable clarity. Even before I was ready to convert, I used to tuck myself into a corner in the sanctuary about three feet from the tabernacle to pray, because I knew He was there.

So whether your friend’s conversion is technically valid, I for one am convinced that Something Happened. It’s like a seed waiting to sprout, and when the time is right and her heart is ready, those graces are ready to burst out.

 

[po18guy]

She is a “real” Catholic though, correct? She was baptized and confirmed. Does it matter that she was essentially coerced? I assume her conversion is still valid?

Her conversion, to be valid, must have been done in good conscience, and with honest desire, and of her own free will. If she, in her heart of hearts, was not converting of her own volition, it calls the entire process into question. If she was at all pressured or otherwise coerced, it likely is not valid. Everything she participated in is of the spirit, not of the flesh, and so her spirit must be willing. Compare this to your conversion process. You can see that nothing physical drew you to the mass - but rather it was all in the spiritual realm. So, if her spirit was not completely willing, it was not a true spiritual conversion. Since her boyfriend so violated the principles of love in their relationship, by now she may have “reverse engineered” her lack of willing participation in her conversion. “May” have. So often we look back upon something associated with a former relationship or situation and say “I never wanted to do that anyway”, out of residual resentment. However, it was the Catholic Church in her case for an eternal reason, just as you have been drawn to it for an eternal reason. At this point, you can only be guided by the spirit in your dealings with her. The peace, hope and love that are dawning upon you are also intended for her, but only within the time frame intended for her spirit. The Lord has a way of opening doors and windows of opportunity for you, and you will know when and if it is time to approach her once again.

She has admitted in the past she was jealous of me for various things so its entirely possible. I hope though she feels better about everything, I’ve been jealous of people myself and its very painful and hard to stop feeling that way. I don’t wish it on anyone, and I hope she feels better sooner rather than later. Since I found out about her bad association with being Catholic I have nothing but compassion for her. I knew she had a bad time with her boyfriend but I have a feeling she hasn’t told me much, maybe just the tip of the iceberg. Even if she doesn’t want to speak to me anymore, I really hope she finds peace in her life. Especially also because she is a mother to 2 very sweet boys. I want them to be happy too.

Let us pray that her children are a beacon of hope to her. The hackneyed phrase “time heals all wounds” certainly does apply, as it giver her heart time to prepare itself for the love for which it is intended. Conversely, as to her boyfriend, it may also be said that “time wounds all heels”, as he only reaps what he has sown. It is sad that he is likely only passing on what he received at some point in his life. Sometimes, only prayer will break the cycle.

I’ve never heard that term haha. I guess its like two for one or buy one, get one free?

Precisely. The Lord often works in this manner.

Its possible also I think, that its just not the right time for her… looking back, I can see where God was possibly calling me years ago already, but I was wasn’t ready or prepared to do anything. It took some time and lots of prompting. I hope though that if and when the time is right she listens to the call.

Even though you were not yet ready to respond to His call, He arranged the events of your life so that your spirit was skewed toward Him. And, when you were finally ready, your spiritual “Yes” was that much easier to say.

Its sad that it is underutilized… I really love it! I don’t understand why people aren’t flocking to it, I really don’t… I agree with you, it is so peaceful and I’m so glad I discovered it!

Our lives are lacking peace, and Jesus Christ is our source of peace. The following, from the Gospel according to Saint John, describes it well:

John 14:27 “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.”

If this sounds familiar, you hear the first sentence in each mass. You have been drawn by God in Christ to that which we all are called, but few actually respond. You are inherently spiritual, and so the Lord beckoned and your willing spirit responded. This is a grace from God.

Peace be with you.