Strong Desire to Attend Mass, But Not Catholic

[Susan_Calvin]

Her conversion, to be valid, must have been done in good conscience, and with honest desire, and of her own free will. If she, in her heart of hearts, was not converting of her own volition, it calls the entire process into question. If she was at all pressured or otherwise coerced, it likely is not valid. Everything she participated in is of the spirit, not of the flesh, and so her spirit must be willing.

Oh OK… interesting. I didn’t realize that was possible, but it makes sense. I guess when she comes into the Church of her own volition (I am being optimistic!) she will need to speak to a priest about it. I really hope she does return to the Church. Her sister is going to talk to her about speaking to me again, so I hope I might at least hear from her. If nothing else I would like to assure her that I am still her friend, nothing has changed, I do not judge her and will not try to force her to change her views. I really do miss her.

Speaking of friends though, my best friend from highschool, who is now a Sister, is coming here for a visit! :extrahappy: She gets some holidays soon, where she is allowed to visit family, and she has opted to spend part of the time with me. I’m really excited, I haven’t seen her for close to 10 years. Also I’m feeling a bit lonely without my other friend, I am surrounded by people - nice people too, but mostly people older than myself and of a different culture - so it will be nice to see an old friend again, I think it will cheer me up a bit. I can’t wait to show her around, either!

 

[Susan_Calvin]

Good to know that he goes “by the book”. The problem with a lot of these minor changes or even things that shouldn’t be done at all isn’t always the fault of the priest as sometimes they weren’t taught properly so they don’t know any better. This is why if someone does observe something being done that shouldn’t be, then one can talk to the priest or (later) the Bishop to help set them straight.

I’m nowhere at the point where I would know the difference, like what was correct or not, but yes I am very grateful that my pastor has a good head on his shoulders. He comes to read on the forums when he has a chance, though he is not a member. He gives this website his seal of approval. He also recommended Zenit to me, so I have started reading there. I have directed him to a few of the threads in the Liturgy and Sacraments section here, concerning various rubrics and so on. He has very definite opinions about many of the controversies mentioned in that forum. Not sure “opinion” is the right word to use, but anyhow - its very reassuring to me that he’s definite. Makes it so much easier. On Corpus Christi he was reminding everyone the proper way to receive Holy Communion, how to be more reverant, and so on. I so appreciate his directness. I understand why some priests might be less direct, but its just so much less confusing to have a straight answer. I’m also really looking forward to discussing some of these things with my friend who is a Sister when she comes, since she lives in the States.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

I took a long time to complete my studies (I won’t scare you by mentioning how long)

Now I’m curious!!

jmcrae:

I’m glad that I took the time, because it was nice for me to know about and be able to claim the special Indulgences that one receives when one converts, and it was also really nice to have thoroughly researched my Patron Saint (Saint Teresa of Avila, as it turns out) - and I really felt like I was good and ready to take up the Catholic lifestyle, 100%.

Yes all that makes sense. The more I learn and ask questions, the more I realize I don’t know. Just the other day again I discovered something was a serious sin which I didn’t know was a sin at all! So its good that I’m taking my time I think. That’s great that St. Teresa is your patron saint, I love what I’ve read of her so far. I’ve also discovered the Cure d’Ars recently and he’s excellent to read. If I get to choose a saint myself, I am considering St. Angela Merici, or Mother Teresa of course, although she’s not a saint yet.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

We are giving you quite a reading list!!

Yes you are!! Its just getting bigger and bigger, but thanks for the latest recommendation. Yesterday I discovered a website where I can download free Catholic ebooks, so I went wild! I downloaded about 50 books, all classics. That should keep me occupied for a while I think.

EvelynEVF:

So whether your friend’s conversion is technically valid, I for one am convinced that Something Happened. It’s like a seed waiting to sprout, and when the time is right and her heart is ready, those graces are ready to burst out.

Thanks! I like the analogy of “planting a seed”. I recently discovered there’s a parable about a sower and seeds too. I’m sure that’s old news to all of you but its exciting to me because it makes sooo much sense! I can see where the seed lay dormant in me for a while before sprouting. I hope my friend “sprouts” too.

Someone on here had suggested the Liturgy of the Hours to me. Well, I looked it up online but I am finding it extremely confusing. Its very complicated. I mentioned it to Sister though (the Sister who is teaching me catechism) and she invited to attend chapel at her convent and say it with the Sisters. I’m really excited about that. She said I am welcome any day I have time to come. I hope to go soon.

I can’t imagine ever becoming bored with being Catholic… there’s just so much to learn!

 

[chewchoo]

Yes you are!! Its just getting bigger and bigger, but thanks for the latest recommendation. Yesterday I discovered a website where I can download free Catholic ebooks, so I went wild! I downloaded about 50 books, all classics. That should keep me occupied for a while I think. !

please share the website

I can’t imagine ever becoming bored with being Catholic… there’s just so much to learn!

you’re right on there

 

[grandfather]

To be honest, I haven’t always given people that many chances when they do something hurtful. I’ve been hurt so many times in my life, that for a few years there, I couldn’t stand the pain of being hurt anymore. Many times I have just said, OK, stay away from me then, see ya, wouldn’t want to be ya, have a nice life, etc. .

 

[Susan_Calvin]

please share the website

The website I went to last night is: freecatholicebooks.com/ but I also found these two today:

hismercy.ca/content/HM_ebooks.html

catholic-forum.com/saints/indexebk.htm

 

[chewchoo]

The website I went to last night is: freecatholicebooks.com/ but I also found these two today:

hismercy.ca/content/HM_ebooks.html

catholic-forum.com/saints/indexebk.htm

excellent, thank you! i added them to my growing list of links on my blog.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

When you go to Mass next and here the prayers and look at the crucifix above the altar, Jesus is saying two things to you. I love you. See how much your sins hurt me. The realization that I cause another being, even God pain, id very disturbing. It causes us to hate our sins.

Yes I know… it makes me feel disturbed also. Just this week I started saying the Stations of the Cross and it really bothers me. Our church has a very realistic life size crucifix too. I often look at it during mass and think of everything Jesus went through for me.

grandfather:

So you have also been hurt much in life. That makes you like Jesus. What does Jesus do when you hurt Him, again and again. He forgives you. Why? He loves you. He wants to be with you forever, even though your sins crucify Him. What should we do then, with those who hurt us?

…But if we want to follow Him, meaning follow His example, do what He does, be like Him, then we have to forgive our enemies. It is either that or we choose to have no part in Him.

Very true, I agree with you, no arguments. In the case of a child being raped though, well - this is where I personally have a lot of difficulty. I was raped myself at age 9. Coincidentally, it was how I met Mother, because she was there after it happened. Not to get too graphic, but a 9 year old is very small… I required surgery to repair that whole area. It was the most painful (physically and emotionally) and horrific experience of my life. To think of any other little girl going through that makes me ill, quite literally. I have a very hard time with anyone who rapes children. I understand we are supposed to forgive everyone but this is a very personal thing for me and its probably going to be one of my biggest challenges. I’m praying for help to forgive but that’s about all I can do at this point because this is more than I can accomplish on my own. I will need God’s grace for this one.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

excellent, thank you! i added them to my growing list of links on my blog.

Cool, I’m glad you like them. Cool also that you have a blog. I was thinking of starting one myself.

 

[grandfather]

I think you are speculating correctly; at least, I believe that too. I can’t imagine I have been all this by myself, or on my own merit. I must be having her help, and the help of all the prayers for me over the years. There really is no other explanation IMHO.

There is an analogy between grace an money. All analogies breakdown at some point. If you have no money, or job, the only way for you to get some money is if someone gives you some. Grace is like that. It is unmerited. Why would someone give you their money? They feel sorry for you and you need help. Then when you have some money you have three options. You can spend it, save it, or give it away. God is giving you grace right now in this time in your life. That may be due to Mother’s prayers, but that is about how it came to you. What will you do with it? It is yours. If I give you ten dollars it is no longer mine. It is yours to do with as you wish. So you can call the grace you have, God’s grace, because it came from Him, but now it is yours. It is a treasure. What will you do with it?

If you are like Mother Teresa you will not keep it for yourself. You will give it away out of compassion. Here is where the analogy breaks down. If I give you my money I no longer have it. If you give the treasure of grace to those in need, you get richer.

There is physical poverty and hunger, and spiritual poverty and hunger. What is the spiritual stuff we all need to feed our souls so they can live? It is love. Mother loved you and the consequences of that are now blossoming in your soul, causing you to be happy and excited about certain things, but more so, causing your heart to expand and be capable also of great love for others.

So Mother did not simply want you to be loved and find or receive some happiness. She wanted you to also be able to love and give happiness.

 

[chewchoo]

I understand we are supposed to forgive everyone but this is a very personal thing for me and its probably going to be one of my biggest challenges. I’m praying for help to forgive but that’s about all I can do at this point because this is more than I can accomplish on my own. I will need God’s grace for this one.

i recommend looking into the book Left To Tell, by immaculee iligagiza. she is a survivor of the rwandan holocaust. i saw her speak about 2 years ago. the horrors she went thru and her total forgiveness of all is truly a gift from God. yes she had to turn herself over to God, but she is amazing. she hid in a small bathroom for 9 months with 8 or 9 other women. very little food, and a rosary. i think she asked for and received a bible as well while she was in there. she reflects God’s love so beautifully.

 

[chewchoo]

Cool, I’m glad you like them. Cool also that you have a blog. I was thinking of starting one myself.

i think you are a prime candidate for a blog!! i recommend wordpress.com.

 

[Susan_Calvin]

There is an analogy between grace an money. All analogies breakdown at some point. If you have no money, or job, the only way for you to get some money is if someone gives you some. Grace is like that. It is unmerited. Why would someone give you their money? They feel sorry for you and you need help. Then when you have some money you have three options. You can spend it, save it, or give it away. God is giving you grace right now in this time in your life. That may be due to Mother’s prayers, but that is about how it came to you. What will you do with it? It is yours. If I give you ten dollars it is no longer mine. It is yours to do with as you wish. So you can call the grace you have, God’s grace, because it came from Him, but now it is yours. It is a treasure. What will you do with it?

I understand the analogy, its awesome! But I don’t understand how I am able to give away grace that I have received. Is it by praying for people, being kind to them, etc? I’m not really sure how that works.

grandfather:

So Mother did not simply want you to be loved and find or receive some happiness. She wanted you to also be able to love and give happiness.

Yes I agree. Still, I don’t really get how I will do that, other than trying my best to be kind to others and asking for God’s help?

 

[Susan_Calvin]

i recommend looking into the book Left To Tell, by immaculee iligagiza. she is a survivor of the rwandan holocaust. i saw her speak about 2 years ago. the horrors she went thru and her total forgiveness of all is truly a gift from God. yes she had to turn herself over to God, but she is amazing. she hid in a small bathroom for 9 months with 8 or 9 other women. very little food, and a rosary. i think she asked for and received a bible as well while she was in there. she reflects God’s love so beautifully.

Thanks so much for the recommendation. I would love to read how someone else has accomplished this. I hope I can order the book online. I have no doubt I will be able to forgive eventually, as recently I was able to forgive my father, and I never thought that would come to pass. Still though, just being honest here, I’m not going to pretend its easy and that’s why I say I think I need God’s help.

 

[grandfather]

Hmm. Maybe I am reading too fast and missing some of the things which you are catching. I re-read paragraphs here and there but for the most part I have been reading fairly quickly. In any event I am taking notes on my thoughts and I am going to read it more than once for sure. I’m not going to do it now, but I am thinking in the future sometime I might like to take a couple of university classes relating to this. At a Catholic university of course…

There is no one way to approach the vast deposit of spiritual wealth given to us through divine revelation and the thought of the saints.

Imagine if we were standing together and looking out over a vast prarie full of thousands of flowers, or looking out into the sky at a billion stars. You can take in the scene in its vastness, the breeze blowing over the colors and making them move in waves. I might get down on my knees and uncover a single daisy and examine it in detail. Which is the right approach? They both are. We come up with the same conclusion. This is beautiful.

Your personal makeup inclines you to soak up a lot of information quickly. Your mind is voracious and quick. I am slow and pondering. I don’t have the ability and never had it, to learn so much so fast. You probably would be bored pondering something for too long. You can see the work of God in the galaxies or the daisy and be awed.

 

[grandfather]

Oh OK… interesting. I didn’t realize that was possible, but it makes sense. I guess when she comes into the Church of her own volition (I am being optimistic!) she will need to speak to a priest about it. I really hope she does return to the Church. Her sister is going to talk to her about speaking to me again, so I hope I might at least hear from her. If nothing else I would like to assure her that I am still her friend, nothing has changed, I do not judge her and will not try to force her to change her views. I really do miss her.

Speaking of friends though, my best friend from highschool, who is now a Sister, is coming here for a visit! :extrahappy: She gets some holidays soon, where she is allowed to visit family, and she has opted to spend part of the time with me. I’m really excited, I haven’t seen her for close to 10 years. Also I’m feeling a bit lonely without my other friend, I am surrounded by people - nice people too, but mostly people older than myself and of a different culture - so it will be nice to see an old friend again, I think it will cheer me up a bit. I can’t wait to show her around, either!

What a dichotomy.

I’ll bet if you told your wounded friend that you miss her and love her it would have a positive impact. That is what God does to our souls when we go away from Him.

I’ll bet your nun friend is also very excited to see you, especially to see that through your conversion you can be even closer in friendship.

 

[Liraco]

I’m not going to pretend its easy and that’s why I say I think I need God’s help.

That’s something we all need to keep in our minds at all times: without God we are nothing. When we push Him aside, that’s when we’re most miserable, that’s when we fail the most. Yet when we’re with Him, even in our failures and our sorrows, we trust in His love for us and know that everything has meaning and a purpose because He’s in control.

We all need His help, all the time and should never forget to ask for it. So continue to pray and you’ll see that eventually His love will overcome anything. You’ve said it yourself, you’ve already done things you didn’t think you would, so just be open and let it happen when the time is right.

As for how to best use the Grace given to you. I have no answer except: just love. Love others like others have loved you.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Susan, as to passing on God’s grace, I think you’re moving in the right direction. It’s kind of like having the resources to provide something, so you just sort of do it. For example, if you were quite wealthy, you would be aware of the financial needs of different ministries or individuals, and you would give, because you could. You could think in that direction almost automatically.

It’s the same way spiritually. Once we come face-to-face with the love of God, we automatically find ways to “spend” love in a variety of situations. Knowing the compassion of God in our sufferings makes us more aware of others’ sufferings and how to meet them with compassion.

Knowing God’s grace in our individual circumstances makes us able to support others through the same thing. My spiritual director admitted to me recently that she just does not understand why women stay in abusive marriages, and it frustrates her. Well, I left an abusive marriage last year, and I know how hard it is and why, so I am in a position to identify with and minister to women who would just frustrate my sd (who is a wonderful person and I’m sure would come alongside them and love them, but it’s different when someone really knows what you’re going through).

As you process your rape as a child through your new Catholic lenses, you will heal even more and then have the grace to be able to revisit that horror by helping other women through it in a personal way that very few would be able to. Apart from the grace of God, it would continue to be an open wound that you wouldn’t want to go near, even to help someone else.

Anyway, those are my thought on passing on grace etc.

 

[CSUNGerrie]

His nose had been bleeding and there was dried blood crusted on his face. I think he may have been in a fight, or had fallen down, not sure. Anyhow, people kept turning away from him. I wasn’t disgusted with him, as I was homeless myself as a kid, but I was a bit afraid - I wasn’t sure what he wanted from people. I had to walk by him, and I was a bit nervous, so I quickly prayed to not feel afraid, and remembered what Father had said about seeing Jesus in everyone. When I walked by him, he approached me as he’d been approaching others. He was very polite. He said excuse me miss, would you please tie my shoelaces. I then noticed that his hands were badly cut up and swollen, and of course his shoelaces were untied. So I said yes, and I bent down and tied them. He was really happy, gave me a big smile and said thank you and left the platform. I wished I could have done something else for him, but it seems all he wanted was for someone to tie his shoes. Anyhow… I have experiences like that now. Usually related to what I have heard in mass. Not usually as dramatic as that example, but its always something. I just have to be open to receiving whatever the “instruction” is for that day.

Susan, this is one of the best examples of charity I have heard in quite a while. Very wonderful story. You really made my day. I told all my friends about this story and it seemed they were very touched by it. I would like to leave you with an exerpt from the Brothers Karamazov. "Never be frightened at your own faint-heartedness in
attaining love. Don’t be frightened overmuch even at your evil
actions. I am sorry I can say nothing more consoling to you, for
love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing compared with love in
dreams."

Thank you for your wonderful heart that gives my own heart instruction on how to love.