Study the Qur’an?

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Techno2000 said:
So do you believe that all problems that we find in Islam can be attributed to just a bad translations ?
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Many problems have arisen from incorrect English translations which are currently used as a foundation to attack Islam but which can be proven to be baseless.

Three major misunderstandings deliberately created as a result of not checking facts and mistranslations are:
  1. Not to make friends with Christians or Jews. The correct word in Arabic is ‘allies’ as in political allies.
  2. To beat your wife. The word used in Arabic is DARAB which has over a hundred definitions including ‘to separate’. Muhammad never beat His wives but when problems arose ‘separated’ from them temporarily.
  3. Then accusations are made that Muhammad was a paedophile. Firstly the Quran clearly states that women can only be married when they reach puberty and A’isha taking into account historical evidence was about 18 when married not 9.
But prejudiced people go with these stories not questioning them because they think they can attack Muhammad through authoritative sources but they will be disproved and fair minded people are exposing these misconceptions as we speak & like we are trying to do here.
 
Ok , so you mean… “saying it’s all just a Bad translation” to try, and explain away the words of Muhammad… doesn’t hold water… correct ?
 
DEU 33.2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.

He came from Sinai, Seir and Paran

Sinai refers to Moses

Seir is a locality near Nazareth the birth place of Christ

sites.google.com/site/placesornames/nazareth-history-dead-sea-scrolls-collections

Paran, a desert of Arabia: —

Paran = “place of caverns”

Strong’s

Now isn’t it interesting that Muhammad had his Revelation in a cave and Stromg’s lists Paran as a ‘desert in Arabia’ and ‘place of caverns’
 
Techno2000 said:
Another huge difference between Islam, and Christianity.
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This is just in the Old Testament. It was a practice in those days Many of Muhammad’s marriages He never bore children and they were clearly political marriages to create peace between tribes and to protect rhe women from slavery, starvation and prostitution.

Abraham had more than one wife. You believe in Abtaham don’t you?

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 “If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons…”

There are a lot more verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy, but I think that the above are sufficient enough to prove my point.

Here’s an interesting question by a Christian and look at the answer given.

Question: “Why did God allow polygamy / bigamy in the Bible?”

Answer: The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament? There are three questions that need to be answered: 1) Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament? 2) How does God view polygamy today? 3) Why did it change?

So, it seems that God may have allowed polygamy to protect and provide for the women who could not find a husband otherwise. A man would take multiple wives and serve as the provider and protector of all of them. While definitely not ideal, living in a polygamist household was far better than the alternatives: prostitution, slavery, or starvation.

You can study in depth here from a Christian viewpoint gotquestions.org/polygamy.html
 
And not only in polygamy but there seems to be a double standard when it comes to anything Muhammad did.

Moses was a murderer but He attacked someone to stop oppression the same as Muhammad yet we don’t see anyone attacking Moses as violent. Why? Because he tried to stop an assault. Muhammad tries to stop genocide and gets called a serial killer??? Why this bias?

Moses

One day after Moses had reached adulthood he killed an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew.

Muhammad
Sura 22:40

If God did not repel some people by means of others, many monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, where God’s name is much invoked, would have been destroyed.
 
worldcitizen said:
  1. Then accusations are made that Muhammad was a paedophile. Firstly the Quran clearly states that women can only be married when they reach puberty and A’isha taking into account historical evidence was about 18 when married not 9.
.
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The quran states otherwise …

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)’
 
worldcitizen said:
And not only in polygamy but there seems to be a double standard when it comes to anything Muhammad did.

Moses was a murderer but He attacked someone to stop oppression the same as Muhammad yet we don’t see anyone attacking Moses as violent. Why? Because he tried to stop an assault. Muhammad tries to stop genocide and gets called a serial killer??? Why this bias?

Moses

One day after Moses had reached adulthood he killed an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew.

Muhammad
Sura 22:40

If God did not repel some people by means of others, many monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, where God’s name is much invoked, would have been destroyed.
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What about the caravan raids muhammad took part in?
For these caravan raids muhammad gave permission to “plunder” the caravans of theirs enemies and seize their goods and property(s) and said “ Go forth against this caravan; it may be that allah will grant you plunder "

“Abu 'Afak (died c. 624) was a Jewish poet who lived in the Hijaz region (today Saudi Arabia). Abu 'Afak did not convert to Islam and was vocal about his opposition to Muhammad. He became a significant political enemy of Muhammad.
As an elderly man, Abu 'Afak Arwan wrote a politically charged poem against Muhammad and his followers that is preserved in the Sira. Muhammad then allegedly called for Abu 'Afak’s death, and Salim ibn Umayr killed him. The affair was recorded by Ibn Ishaq in “Sirat Rasul Allah” (The Life of the Prophet of God), the oldest biography of Muhammad,”

Muhammad is be no means innocent when it comes to kills
 
JimmyDFG said:
The quran states otherwise …

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)’
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The reference material you quote from is a Hadith and is not from the Quran, the Word of God revealed to Muhammad which states that women can only be married when they reach puberty. And Muhammad obeyed what the Quran said.

Quran 4:6 And test the orphans until they attain puberty;

Whereas the Quran is the infallible Word of God, Hadiths can be wrong or incorrect and in the book A’isha another explanation of her real age is give.

“Here there is another critical piece of information. The age difference between Aisha and her sister Asma was 10 years. According to this, Aisha’s year of birth was 605 (595+10=605) and her age at the time of the Hijra was 17 (27–10=17). Since her marriage took place six, seven or eight months after the Hijra, or just after Badr, this means Aisha was 17-18 years old at that time.”

From the Book A’isha (Reşit Haylamaz) available on Kindle

Sources:

Bayhaqi, Sunan , 6:204; Ibn Manda, Marifatu’s Sahaba , Köprülü Kütüphanesi, No: 242, p. 195; Ibn Asakir, Tarikhu Dimashq , Tarajimu’n Nisa , Damascus, pp. 9, 10, 28, 1982; Mas’udi, Muruju’z Zahab , 2, 39; Ibn Sa’d, Tabaqatu’l Kubra , Beirut, 8:59, 1968.
 
worldcitizen said:
This is just in the Old Testament. It was a practice in those days Many of Muhammad’s marriages He never bore children and they were clearly political marriages to create peace between tribes and to protect rhe women from slavery, starvation and prostitution.

Abraham had more than one wife. You believe in Abtaham don’t you?

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon’s son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 “If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons…”

There are a lot more verses from the Old Testament that allow polygamy, but I think that the above are sufficient enough to prove my point.

Here’s an interesting question by a Christian and look at the answer given.

Question: “Why did God allow polygamy / bigamy in the Bible?”

Answer: The question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. In 2 Samuel 12:8, God, speaking through the prophet Nathan, said that if David’s wives and concubines were not enough, He would have given David even more. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament? There are three questions that need to be answered: 1) Why did God allow polygamy in the Old Testament? 2) How does God view polygamy today? 3) Why did it change?

So, it seems that God may have allowed polygamy to protect and provide for the women who could not find a husband otherwise. A man would take multiple wives and serve as the provider and protector of all of them. While definitely not ideal, living in a polygamist household was far better than the alternatives: prostitution, slavery, or starvation.

You can study in depth here from a Christian viewpoint gotquestions.org/polygamy.html
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This is about Chirstanty and Jesus coming back as Muhammad now teaching polygamy :eek:
 
JimmyDFG said:
“Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet Muhammad.”-St. Peter Mavimenus (d. 8th century), martyr from Gaza. Response reported in the Martyriologum Romanum when he was asked to convert to Islam by a group of Muslims.

“There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist…. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration.”
-St. John Damascene (d. 749), Syrian Arab Catholic monk and scholar. Quoted from his book On Heresies under the section On the Heresy of the Ishmaelites (in The Fathers of the Church. Vol. 37. Translated by the Catholic University of America. CUA Press. 1958. Pages 153-160.)

“We profess Christ to be truly God and your prophet to be a precursor of the Antichrist and other profane doctrine.”
-Sts. Habenitus, Jeremiah, Peter, Sabinian, Walabonsus, and Wistremundus (d. 851), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.

“Any cult which denies the divinity of Christ, does not profess the existence of the Holy Trinity, refutes baptism, defames Christians, and derogates the priesthood, we consider to be damned.”
-Sts. Aurelius, Felix, George, Liliosa, and Natalia (d. 852), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.

“On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, the point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants.”
-St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Theologian and Doctor of the Church. Quoted from his De Rationibus Fidei Contra Saracenos, Graecos, et Armenos and translated from Fr. Damian Fehlner’s Aquinas on Reasons for the Faith: Against the Muslims, Greeks, and Armenians (Franciscans of the Immaculate. 2002.).

Continue…
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Well the question has to be asked then.

No wonder Catholics are confused. God is not the teacher of confusion, is he?

In fact, our friend Techno might know, who is the author of confusion?

.
 
JimmyDFG said:
Why is it said that the quran is best read and understood in Arabic?
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Not fully sure what you are implying here Jimmy.

As a person married to a family full of Arabs, I can tell you that there is a poetic beauty in reading the Arabic prose of the Quran.

The meanings can still be grasped perfectly well in English.

.
 
Muhammad was prophesied in the Bible.

DEU 33.2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.

He came from Sinai, Seir and Paran

Sinai refers to Moses

Seir is a locality near Nazareth the birth place of Christ

sites.google.com/site/places…ls-collections

Paran, a desert of Arabia: —

Paran = “place of caverns”

Strong’s

Now isn’t it interesting that Muhammad had his Revelation in a cave and Stromg’s lists Paran as a ‘desert in Arabia’ and ‘place of caverns’
 
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