Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[ishii]

When we dress nicely, we help not only ourselves, but others to realize the importance of the Mass. When we fail to dress nicely, we are telling others that what is happening isn’t that important, and so we also steal from them a true knowledge and reverance. Mass isn’t just about you and what you can get out of it and your own comfort. That is exactly what it is not.

Excellent point. Its not about us is it. And what kind of message are we telling visitors who see us wearing the same clothes as we would if we go to McDonald’s or to a Mariner’s game.

Ishii

 

[CMatt25]

With your logic, we should also get rid of the kneelers because they take away from our comfort. Get rid of the kneelers, better get rid of the Eucharist, the One for Whom we kneel

No actually a Catholic church I attend has chairs without kneelers and they still have the Eucharist.

 

[JHow]

Much of the posting to this point has presented this issue as an individual choice - to dress nicely, or not.

I think the issue is cultural, and viewed in that light the behaviors can be more easily explained. What confuses people is that several cultures share the same space at mass in a given parish - hence the friction.

As an example, in my parish **hawaiian shirts **are commonly worn by the older men of the parish to mass. I have been noticing this recently, given all these threads on CAF about dress at mass. I even saw a guy last week who had on a suit jacket and pants, and a hawaiian shirt, tucked in and belted. Clearly, this man, who is a regular attendee at the 9:30 mass for many years, is attempting to dress in his “Sunday Best”, and that Sunday best includes a hawaiian shirt. The only explanation I can see for this is that he belongs to a culture (suburban california males of a certain age) in which this is modal dress for mass. I personally do not belong to that culture, but I don’t know how or why I can overly criticize it, anymore than I would criticize actual Hawaiians for wearing those shirts to mass (if they do that in Hawaii?).

 

[comrade1789]

No actually a Catholic church I attend has chairs without kneelers and they still have the Eucharist.

Does the congregation kneel during the consecration? I’m also curious, will you decribe what your parish’s main Crucifix looks like? Is it abstract, or realistic for example.

 

[mtbender]

Jumping in a little late here, but I think this is a small window into our social changes/decline (depends on what side you are on). I am sure many will argue that I am making a big leap here, but as someone pointed out – this wouldn’t have been a discussion some years ago – but respect meant something totally different then.

I will wear a tie every Sunday – not because someone tells me to, not because everyone else does, not because it is comfortable – but as a sign of reverence - and to show respect for those around me.

One can argue up and down that it is what is in the heart that matters, but to me, how someone presents themselves is an outward expression of their sincerity. I would never wear jeans to a wedding, because I respect the Sacrament of Matrimony, I would never wear jeans to a funeral because I respect the departed and the grief of the family, I would never wear jeans to a baptism, because I respect Sacrament… I am afraid to ask what others would think is appropriate.

What is in ones heart is truly what matters, so much more than the outward appearance. With that said, one would have to do a strong examination into the why’s when deciding what is appropriate. Every action is deliberate and has a meaning – is it one of selfishness and/or convenience? Or is it one to honor the celebration of the Eucharist and the presence of Our Lord?

It’s not an issue of “judging a book by its cover”. I would never say one is less worthy of being there, that’s not my call to make. What I will say is that there is an “apparent” lack of reverence, but it all goes back to how each individual defines respect.

 

[livnlern]

There is nothing more that can be said to you then. You have determined to stick to your own argument and will, which is common to most people who take the Liturgy loosely. With your logic, we should also get rid of the kneelers because they take away from our comfort. Get rid of the kneelers, better get rid of the Eucharist, the One for Whom we kneel, for Whom we dress up, for Whom we are even present. There are those who go to Mass, and those who participate in Mass; those who uphold or even enhance the Liturgy, and those who degrade and even steal from the Liturgy; those who understand and acknowledge that something and Someone significant is taking place, and those who have yet to reach that point; those who only take, and those who seek to give. When we dress nicely, we help not only ourselves, but others to realize the importance of the Mass. When we fail to dress nicely, we are telling others that what is happening isn’t that important, and so we also steal from them a true knowledge and reverance. Mass isn’t just about you and what you can get out of it and your own comfort. That is exactly what it is not.

These are excellent points. We go to Mass to worship God. Not to think about our own comfort. I went to a Catholic church in Florida that had no kneelers in it and also have been to church in Dallas where people stood through the Consecration. I stood as well that one time but promised myself I would never do so again during the Consecration because I felt how wrong it was to do this. If we can’t put ourselves out a little bit and realize the importance of what we do while at Mass, we’re lacking in reverence towards Jesus and the huge sacrifice He made for us.

 

[CMatt25]

In addition to dressing modestly and respectfully, we need to stop the loud conversations inside the Church, laughing and carrying on, during the kiss of peace, and most of all, focus on what’s happening while in the communion line instead of waving to all of your friends on the way up.

Ishii

Ishii, you don’t mean any laughing do you? Because your post reminded me of a time when I attended a Catholic Mass when the church had on its doors, “Quiet please you are entering a sacred place” or somethng to that effect. Then when a parishoner sneezed during Mass, Father stopped and said “God bless you!” Everyone laughed. And even Father, who had the signs on the door, said that is ok, we can laugh in church.

 

[CMatt25]

Does the congregation kneel during the consecration? I’m also curious, will you decribe what your parish’s main Crucifix looks like? Is it abstract, or realistic for example.

In chairs without kneelers, no by far most do not kneel. I’m not exactly sure what you would call abstract or realistic. So at the parish I was referring to, I would describe it personally as a cross with Jesus depicted on it. But nothing all that fancy or overly ornate. To me that is realisitc but would you call it?

 

[Tigg]

I also get much more out of the Mass when I am there in comfort instead of wishing I were out of my “dress” clothing and shoes. But to each their own I guess as to what they prefer to wear. I’m certain God who knows the heart doesn’t reject the disciple in sandals more than he rejects the rich man in a suit. Neither of which can walk on water. God bless and peace.

The “I” syndrome again!

btw, comrade1789 - that was a wonderful post and points made which reiterated what many of us have been saying …if only we had eyes to see and ears to hear and hearts that understand…but you’re correct. Nothing more can be said to those who still think their grungy appearance does not detract from the Sacred Liturgy while angels circle the altar and Holy, Holy, Holy is being chanted.

 

[livnlern]

I also get much more out of the Mass when I am there in comfort instead of wishing I were out of my “dress” clothing and shoes. But to each their own I guess as to what they prefer to wear. I’m certain God who knows the heart doesn’t reject the disciple in sandals more than he rejects the rich man in a suit. Neither of which can walk on water. God bless and peace.

What makes you think the man in a suit is “rich”? Maybe he’s no richer than you are. And who says someone that wears sandals is less well off? No offense, but you seem to be judging book covers in this situation.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

WOW, you think college students should change clothes before mass, that’s not going to happen, and IMO there’s no need for it.

God Bless students who are taking the time to celebrate daily mass.

Now see…that’s my thought too! I could not believe it when another poster berated them for this. What I usually see at daily Mass is a little more casual then Sunday. Well…because duh…no one has 7 days of Sunday best. Much Much better to be at Mass! Especially for a college student!

 

[Elizabeth502]

Ishii, you don’t mean any laughing do you? Because your post reminded me of a time when I attended a Catholic Mass when the church had on its doors, “Quiet please you are entering a sacred place” or somethng to that effect. Then when a parishoner sneezed during Mass, Father stopped and said “God bless you!” Everyone laughed. And even Father, who had the signs on the door, said that is ok, we can laugh in church.

Laughing about something together, as a congregation, is different form carrying on private social conversations in audible voices, that often include laughter. (Not the occasional too-funny accident like a cat following you into church and your cracking up about it, etc.)

In the super-quiet, respectful, almost contemplative Mass which is my favorite to attend, during witty but spiritual homilies (which include spiritual wit ), members of the congregation laugh at such times. But the focus never shifts to one of a casual social get-together, whether in couples, groups, or as a whole body.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I love this from a blog about dress for Mass:

“And then something happened: I started to understand Mass. Once I began making Daily Mass a part of my life, Church wasn’t merely someplace sacred: it was **HOME. **All that really mattered was spending as much time with Jesus as possible. And you can’t spend as much time with Jesus as possible if you maintain that what you normally wear on a Tuesday morning is inappropriate for Mass. Dress snobbery dropped away. Maybe those who wore jeans did so not because they cared less, but because they cared so much about being with Jesus that they weren’t caught up on spending their Sunday mornings trying to look good.”

Some posters are right that it is about the heart and should not be only about us…but who are you to judge what others heart is? If it’s clean, modest, and neat, what do you care? Is there a reason it has to be a suit? Or a dress?

As for me…I’ll dress from the heart…and all the other part of it will fall away.

As a side note…I found this really interesting…I think God has a sense of humor. I’m a brand new EMHC on Sat nights. So I have decided that when I’m serving I will not wear jeans. So for about two months I didn’t even wear jeans on Sat night period…in case I was called to fill in. Then labor day weekend…all the clothes in the wash, I was retaining water like Hoover dam, so I went to Mass in my jeans…I wasn’t scheduled to serve, I had not really been called to fill in…as most people didn’t realize I was an EMHC yet. What happened…you got it…I was called to fill in. Now some of you will berate me I’m sure for not making sure the wash was done, and that I wasn’t bloated or some other thing I’m sure…but see…that’s the reason I go to Mass…because I’m not perfect!

 

[Elixir]

It’s been my experience that folks dressed up for Mass are, more often than not, not “rich”. They just understand where they’re going and why and wish, apparently, to look as fine as possible.

I like looking spiffy for work or church. I could never allow myself to wear shorts & sneakers to Mass.

Coming from someone who lived it, most young’ins in their 20’s & 30’s simply cannot see themselves as responsible adults…or do not want to be adults. Hence they dress like they’re at the frat/sorority house at all times: shorts, flip-flops (how I HATE flip-flops) and backward ball caps. Ugh.

 

[ringil]

In chairs without kneelers, no by far most do not kneel. I’m not exactly sure what you would call abstract or realistic. So at the parish I was referring to, I would describe it personally as a cross with Jesus depicted on it. But nothing all that fancy or overly ornate. To me that is realisitc but would you call it?

I thought you were Anglican. Are you thinking of converting?!?

 

[ishii]

Much of the posting to this point has presented this issue as an individual choice - to dress nicely, or not.

I think the issue is cultural, and viewed in that light the behaviors can be more easily explained. What confuses people is that several cultures share the same space at mass in a given parish - hence the friction.

As an example, in my parish **hawaiian shirts **are commonly worn by the older men of the parish to mass. I have been noticing this recently, given all these threads on CAF about dress at mass. I even saw a guy last week who had on a suit jacket and pants, and a hawaiian shirt, tucked in and belted. Clearly, this man, who is a regular attendee at the 9:30 mass for many years, is attempting to dress in his “Sunday Best”, and that Sunday best includes a hawaiian shirt. The only explanation I can see for this is that he belongs to a culture (suburban california males of a certain age) in which this is modal dress for mass. I personally do not belong to that culture, but I don’t know how or why I can overly criticize it, anymore than I would criticize actual Hawaiians for wearing those shirts to mass (if they do that in Hawaii?).

In Hawaii we had “aloha Friday” when people would wear an aloha shirt (Hawaiian shirt for mainlanders) and generally dress more casual. In church, guys would often wear Hawaiian shirts but they were in good taste. I don’t know that Sunday best or respectful attire has to be necessarily drab. There were lots of Aloha shirts worn at mass in Hawaii by locals.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Ishii, you don’t mean any laughing do you? Because your post reminded me of a time when I attended a Catholic Mass when the church had on its doors, “Quiet please you are entering a sacred place” or somethng to that effect. Then when a parishoner sneezed during Mass, Father stopped and said “God bless you!” Everyone laughed. And even Father, who had the signs on the door, said that is ok, we can laugh in church.

Common sense, Cmatt. If the priest tells a joke during the homily or something then laughter would make sense. It depends on when during the mass doesn’t it? For example, I wouldn’t think people would laugh during the consecration or on the way up to receive communion. At my old parish there were signs on the door instructing everyone to refrain from loud conversation.

Ishii

 

[JHow]

In Hawaii we had “aloha Friday” when people would wear an aloha shirt (Hawaiian shirt for mainlanders) and generally dress more casual. In church, guys would often wear Hawaiian shirts but they were in good taste. I don’t know that Sunday best or respectful attire has to be necessarily drab. There were lots of Aloha shirts worn at mass in Hawaii by locals.

Ishii

Well, this supports my theory, I think. Local Hawaiian culture says that a neat, clean, tasteful (I assume this refers to the printing on the shirt - nothing risque) aloha shirt is acceptable attire for mass. Some other cultures say coat and tie. But this is really dictated by time and place, I think.

 

[ishii]

Well, this supports my theory, I think. Local Hawaiian culture says that a neat, clean, tasteful (I assume this refers to the printing on the shirt - nothing risque) aloha shirt is acceptable attire for mass. Some other cultures say coat and tie. But this is really dictated by time and place, I think.

In an island off of the gulf of Thailand we took off our shoes before entering the church for mass - as per the local culture. I was just happy to find a catholic church on the island.

Ishii

 

[curlycool89]

Was never said. Straw Man # 85.

…

That was a joke. Hence the “” smiley face. People need to lighten up sometimes.

Which is what those who criticize decent clothing are doing. I’m not the one doing the labeling, sir. You are.

Actually, I’m merely responding to the labelling. You don’t have to have a PhD to figure out what people are insinuating.

Then you and I are not reading the same Catholic Answers forum. Because sure they have. On this thread alone you only need to get to the 3rd post to see someone complain about the "parade of **jeans, short-sleeves and/or t-shirts **.

Jeans are denim pants and shirts have sleeves.

Not to mention that every single thread of CAF that has to do with clothing has a sizeable number of people making the same pronunciations (I have not looked enough to say which side is the “majority”, which is why I’m using “sizeable” instead. I’m trying to be accurate instead of facetious because just as many people will jump on me for that). This is a very conservative Catholic forums, it’s not hard to guess where the thread is going to go.

1. What are you referring to with the “why” in the equation?

Why are these extra clothes needed at all?

1. Can you please be more specific with what “terrible” means?

Plastic bags fall apart easily (duh). Also, they’d be less secure on a large campus.

1. Why is the comparison unrealistic?

Some people would sell their own mother for $100. Number 2, nothing like that would ever happen so it’s a stupid hypothetical (I’m guessing you’re an arts major. I’m an engineering major. I deal in things that are real, not hypothetical).

Some priests might not have a problem with it. But some probably are too scared that people will get so sensitive (you, and others in this thread) when it is suggested they wont dress better that they won’t come back to Mass,which they obviously don’t want. So don’t take the absence of criticism to = their approval. That’s also a logical fallacy, I’m sure you’re aware: If A then B. ~ A, therefore ~ B.

Ok, it is one thing to go against me, but it is a totally different thing to insult several priests. I demand an apology, and this is against forum rules. How dare you call several great priests cowards.

Also, a priest I know would sometimes just attend Mass (not a concelebrate) in more casual clothes then me (he is an excellent priest). I wouldn’t call that “absence of criticism”. Point = not well taken.

It’s surprising that simply advocating a person to do something that would require a bit of effort and planning is met with some vitriol

Vitriol? You sound like someone who has plenty of experience in playing the victim.

But surely you can dress more nicely for Sunday Masses, right?

Yes, because the only thing I’m going to is Sunday Mass and I clear my schedule around it as best I can, and I have time to go and change back after. I upgrade to one of my less ugly collar shirts usually (serious question: why are all collared shirts plain ugly?).

Does the congregation kneel during the consecration? I’m also curious, will you decribe what your parish’s main Crucifix looks like? Is it abstract, or realistic for example.

No kneelers at our chapel, most people (at daily Mass) still kneel for the Consecration (this is in Canada also mind you).