Sunday Best? Church Leaders Blush at "Casual Catholic" Dress

[jmcrae]

I was glad they came to offer me love and support regardless of attire. And no, I nor they, devalued my mother and I find it offensive for you to even ask such a thing.

Well then it seems odd for you to say that you are “just glad they came,” as if for some reason they might not - and that you have to be grateful that they bothered to show up at all, and not worry about how they were dressed, or whether they were dressed in a way that honoured your mother’s memory.

 

[oneplustwo]

I used to wear jeans, and, before that, t-shirts to Mass. However, I have come to believe that how I dress is a reflection of my maturity. In thinking and praying, I found that God was calling me to wear my nice clothes - khaki pants, my nice belt and nice shoes, and a dress shirt (tucked in).

But if people will not wear nice clothing - please at least wear modest clothing (ladies, especially!). Easily half of all the Masses I went to this past summer, I found myself having to keep my eyes upwards or downwards during Mass because there was a young woman directly in my line of sight who was wearing something too tight, or too short, or too skimpy. Ladies, please be mindful of what you wear to Mass!

 

[CMatt25]

Well then it seems odd for you to say that you are “just glad they came,” as if for some reason they might not - and that you have to be grateful that they bothered to show up at all, and not worry about how they were dressed, or whether they were dressed in a way that honoured your mother’s memory.

No. Of the many who came I hadn’t some reason to think they would not. Maybe the word "just’ through you off. What would be more odd to me is if I were not simply glad they came regardless of whether they were wearing a suit and tie or dress or more casual attire. By that mean I didn’t sit there thinking, now lets see. This person is in a suit so he honors my mother more than that person who is in more casual attire. The fact they were there showed me they came to honor. And I was blessed by the presence of all. Just as I used to feel blessed in the Lord’s house by the presence of all of us gathering to honor and worship Him. Until I learned there might be some sitting there in His house who are taking it upon themselves to judge the respect I have for Jesus on the inside by what I am wearing on the outside. Now (to use Elizabeth’s phrasing) I might have to make an “honest assessment” as to whether I am even welcomed in their presence to come as I am.

 

[curlycool89]

I have nothing against forearms. I was simply posing the question – would a T-Shirt with a Christian themed message be appropriate for Mass (as opposed to a shirt & tie, dress shirt, polo shirt, etc.)?

Usually if I’m wearing a t-shirt, it’s a plain one (no logos or anything).

My argument has been, addressing curlycool, that we show respect for the Divine with our entire being since that’s the way the Lord sees us - He does not separate body from soul. How could our dress not possibly reflect who we are inside – it is an expression of our attitudes and being. The soul, the very essence of who we are, is the faculty by which we choose, consciously, or even unconsciously, to dress in the manner we do.

It doesn’t have to. Like I said, your clothing likely reflects how you want to be seen. And the reason for that is (unfortunately) because so many people still judge others, especially strangers, almost solely by their clothing.

It’s not that hard to understand. Why do some people get plastic surgery? Botox? Because they want to portray a certain appearance to others. It could have nothing to do with who they are.

To say that all people perfectly portray on the outside who they are on the inside is way too idealistic. Most people, even Christians, are not so interested in reflecting who they are; they are more interested in what will be best for them.

Why do some Christians all show up in “Sunday best”? Because they follow the Health and Wealth “gospel” (the HWG is not only wrong, I would call it dangerous as it perverts your understanding of faith and turns God into Santa). For them, showing up in their best is part of telling other people that God has “smiled” on them. If they were to show up in something less, people would automatically assume that they have done something wrong or that God is “punishing” them.

 

[MissRose73]

I’ve repented my past ways of not always dressing nicely and appropriately for Mass. I do go to Mass now wearing a nice shirt with a long skirt or dressy pants depending on the weather, or a dress that is modest & goes to my knees / below them.

I have no issues personally with jeans at Mass but I would rather see someone wearing a pair that is neat, clean, not ripped, not overly worn, not too tight or super baggy paired up with a decent non tee type of shirt & pair of shoes. I personally choose not to wear jeans to Mass myself now compared to my teen years where they were a staple of my wardrobe but my mother made sure I wore a nice shirt with them for Mass & they could not be tight fitting at all, something more parents these days should insist on for teens who wear jeans to Mass.

 

[Sarabande]

I have no issues personally with jeans at Mass but I would rather see someone wearing a pair that is neat, clean, not ripped, not overly worn, not too tight or super baggy paired up with a decent non tee type of shirt & pair of shoes. I personally choose not to wear jeans to Mass myself now compared to my teen years where they were a staple of my wardrobe but my mother made sure I wore a nice shirt with them for Mass & they could not be tight fitting at all, something more parents these days should insist on for teens who wear jeans to Mass.

I do have to say, there are some very nice, dress jeans which I think are better-looking and fitted like a pair of nice slacks. I’ve seen them fit with a nice pair of heels or dress flats and a lovely blouse or sweater. I used to teach at a school which required us to look professional in our dress and these kinds of dress jeans were permitted. Not that I’d care if someone next to me showed up in a typical pair of jeans, but jeans have come a long way since the olden days.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Curly, while I’m sure it is true that some people dress ‘to impress’, the fact is that a study of the history of dress/costume and of society, especially as it relates to the western world, did not historically see a wearing of “Sunday best” as trying to ‘flaunt the health and wealth’ gospel–because the wearing of “Sunday best” PREDATES that Protestant gospel by many, many centuries.

Just as it would be wrong to assume that somebody who wears ‘casual clothes’ goes by the Oliver Cromwellian, “I’m a plain man, take me as I am, warts and all, I dress for no one’s impression but my own” philosophy and is deliberately trying to downplay the idea of authority in place of a false egalitarianism played to the ‘most common’ or lowdown style (Cromwell actually did so in part because he was part of an extremely WEALTHY family, but since many of the wealthy family were royalists, and Cromwell wanted to do away with the monarchy --and in fact Charles I was killed by his government, Cromwell downplayed his family ties and dressed down in order to appear and appeal more to the common people!). . .

it is wrong to assume that somebody who wears a suit or dress to Mass is doing so to appear ‘wealthier’ or ‘better off’ or just to ‘show off their affluence’ etc. etc.

Considering the state of western fashion in the last 50 years, it is far more likely that the man or woman who lives in Levis does so because she or he has pretty much worn them throughout life and has basically forced ‘occasions’ to meet their clothing choices instead of the other way around.

But there are those of us who grew up wearing not ‘fancy schmancy’ clothes but pretty much the same stuff we wore for the week, only perhaps slightly newer, less worn looking because it was only worn one day a week. . .the state for example of the pioneer women wearing homespun. . .who wore aprons all week that covered their gown, and then on Sunday took out the same gown but covered it with a ‘frillier’ apron’ or took out a gown made of the same material but only worn on the Sunday . .the idea of wearing “Sunday best”

IS OUR NORM. Not our ‘trying to impress’ but what we have done our lives long, based on centuries of tradition.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Jeans have become the equivalent of the Mao outfit of mid 20th century China, or the peasant tunic of the Middle Ages in Europe. . .the vast majority of the people wear them.

And some jeans are modest and tasteful. When they’re in a plain dark fabric, and cut simply (not too tight or too short), they’re perfectly appropriate and modest.

But I’ve noticed in the last few months a distressing return–and I mean literally-- to the ‘distressed look’ jeans. Jeans which are $80 or more. . .and are full of rips, and holes, worn looking, even dirty looking when new!. . .and really, despite their being ‘expensive’, they aren’t modest and they arent’ appropriate. And when one considers that there are plenty of relatively cheap, modest, and WHOLE jeans out there, a person who waltzes into Mass wearing these jeans because they’re ‘the style’ is far more ‘flaunting their wealth’ and trying to IMPRESS people with their fashion style than the person who is wearing a $30 dress from Blair or JC Penney. It’s funny in a way that the idea of a woman in a ‘dress’ (like all dresses are expensive) would suggest to many that she is just trying to dress that way to show off and impress people, and the woman wearing the $80 ‘hole filled’ jeans is just plain folks who isn’t concerned with clothing at all!!!

 

[curlycool89]

it is wrong to assume that somebody who wears a suit or dress to Mass is doing so to appear ‘wealthier’ or ‘better off’ or just to ‘show off their affluence’ etc. etc.

Yes, it would be. I’m not saying that people absolutely are. But it would be naive to say that everyone who dresses up is doing it for non-selfish reasons.

But I’ve noticed in the last few months a distressing return–and I mean literally-- to the ‘distressed look’ jeans. Jeans which are $80 or more. . .and are full of rips, and holes, worn looking, even dirty looking when new!. . .and really, despite their being ‘expensive’, they aren’t modest and they arent’ appropriate. And when one considers that there are plenty of relatively cheap, modest, and WHOLE jeans out there, a person who waltzes into Mass wearing these jeans because they’re ‘the style’ is far more ‘flaunting their wealth’ and trying to IMPRESS people with their fashion style than the person who is wearing a $30 dress from Blair or JC Penney. It’s funny in a way that the idea of a woman in a ‘dress’ (like all dresses are expensive) would suggest to many that she is just trying to dress that way to show off and impress people, and the woman wearing the $80 ‘hole filled’ jeans is just plain folks who isn’t concerned with clothing at all!!!

I will agree with you on this. The whole “used” look with jeans is very ugly.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, it would be. I’m not saying that people absolutely are. But it would be naive to say that everyone who dresses up is doing it for non-selfish reasons.

Of course, some do dress ‘to impress’. . .but then again, some ‘dress down’ likewise to impress. . .to ‘look like everybody else’ (even if they would rather dress differently); to ‘send a message of rebellion’. . .

As I said, it’s just strange to me that either group (dressy or casual) would assume that the other is MAINLY doing so for selfish reasons.

I will agree with you on this. The whole “used” look with jeans is very ugly.

So true. The older I get, the more I notice that the trends I hated most in life just refuse to die. Distressed jeans, neon colors, ‘leopard print’ ANYTHING, paisley, crop tops. . .and lately, girls’ clothing with ‘Sexy’, “Princess”, “Spoiled brat”, and outfits that cost the earth and look like rejects from an 80s Madonna MTV video. . .
Of course for men, the trends that never die are ugly clunky chains, wifebeater shirts, Hawaiian shirts on anybody but Hawaiians, sandals worn with knee high socks, usually black, jeans worn below the butt so that the underwear is seen and the crotch is at the level of the knees, Brady Bunch ugly sweaters usually with slogans about reindeer poo, T shirts and hats with vulgarity, profanity, beer slogans, ‘my wife is a ^%&^’, anything about how great it is to have sex and drugs, and too TIGHT anything on the principle that the guy wears the same size that he wore in high school even if he’s gained 50 pounds since. . .

 

[Elizabeth502]

the fact is that a study of the history of dress/costume …did not historically see a wearing of “Sunday best” as trying to ‘flaunt the health and wealth’ gospel–because the wearing of “Sunday best” PREDATES that Protestant gospel by many, many centuries.

Indeed. Anybody who understands history before 1965 would understand that.

it is wrong to assume that somebody who wears a suit or dress to Mass is doing so to appear ‘wealthier’ or ‘better off’ or just to ‘show off their affluence’ etc.

It’s also a flagrant violation of charity, consisting as it does of unwarranted rash judgment and stereotyping.

it is far more likely that the man or woman who lives in Levis does so because she or he has pretty much worn them throughout life and has basically forced ‘occasions’ to meet their clothing choices instead of the other way around.

Precisely. It’s also been admitted on this thread.

But there are those of us who grew up wearing not ‘fancy schmancy’ clothes but pretty much the same stuff we wore for the week, only perhaps slightly newer, less worn looking because it was only worn one day a week. . … .the idea of wearing “Sunday best” IS OUR NORM. Not our ‘trying to impress’ but what we have done our lives long, based on centuries of tradition.

Interesting that this mere concept evokes such hostility in some people.

 

[Tigg]

Why do some Christians all show up in “Sunday best”?

The bishop dedicated our new parish two years ago and that was the precise term our pastor used in his first homily in our new facility making the point that sloppiness was not to be tolerated during Mass. Perhaps he “borrowed” the words from the Archbishop of Manila, whose comments I posted earlier. But hey…who listens to our church leaders anymore?

 

[Elizabeth502]

But hey…who listens to our church leaders anymore?

Apparently not many, Tigg.

Given the reaction on this thread to something so simple (coming as it did directly from Church leaders, not posters), it’s no wonder that the Church is facing so many problems with the disregard of its authority and teaching leadership among American Catholics, who 'brand" their own Autonomous Catholicism.

Very interesting that your bishop used the phrase himself, Tigg.

 

[Tigg]

Apparently not many, Tigg.

Given the reaction on this thread to something so simple (coming as it did directly from Church leaders, not posters), it’s no wonder that the Church is facing so many problems with the disregard of its authority and teaching leadership among American Catholics, who 'brand" their own Autonomous Catholicism.

Very interesting that your bishop used the phrase himself, Tigg.

Oops…it was our pastor at the first Mass he celebrated in our new building.

I was amazed that he also demonstrated the proper way to genuflect to an audience of adult Catholics who probably had been “practicing” their whole life (how embarrasing was that?) Just illustrates how much deterioration has occurred in basic church etiquette.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Oops…it was our pastor at the first Mass he celebrated in our new building.

I was amazed that he also demonstrated the proper way to genuflect to an audience of adult Catholics who probably had been “practicing” their whole life (how embarrasing was that?) Just illustrates how much deterioration has occurred in basic church etiquette.

Not all adult Catholics have been practicing their whole life. Some of us just came back to the Church after a long absence and probably appreciated the reminder. Cause I know they did not teach it in RCIA from my husband going.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

“it is wrong to assume that somebody who wears a suit or dress to Mass is doing so to appear ‘wealthier’ or ‘better off’ or just to ‘show off their affluence’ etc.”

It’s also a flagrant violation of charity, consisting as it does of unwarranted rash judgment and stereotyping.

Yes, it is wrong to assume that somebody who wears a suit or dress is dressed that way to appear “weathier” or “better off” JUST as is is also a flagrant violation of charity, consisting as it does of unwarranted rash judgement and stereotyping to assume that some is dressed in jeans or dockers (what some would consider less than “Sunday Best”) does not understand or respect the Mass. Someone could be wearing designer jeans to appear “weathier” or “better off” just as someone could be wearing a suit or a dress who does not understand or respect the Mass. I think that was a lot of peoples point on here…which you just proved, thank you.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

It’s interesting that people will argue for a suit and tie or such and yet that is not exactly what the article is saying. Times have changed…people don’t dress up as much anymore. People used to dress up for dinners, dress up to fly, and dress up for Sunday. Now people wear pj’s to the store, to go fly, and thankfully I have not seen them at Mass yet.

Rev. Beck says, “I thought, this is just not correct.”

“People can be neat and comfortable, just not sloppy and overly suggestive.”

I don’t see anyone here arguing FOR overly suggestive, low cut, or sloppy wear.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

As I sat yesterday in church in my jeans and sneakers I had a question… now it wasn’t for Mass but for our Oktoberfest…

Does anyone else see that what you wear to Mass might also be influenced by your location?

For example, in New York where people seem to dress up more or you do have work that may require a suit and tie and where you have beautiful churches like St. Patricks Cathedral. They may dress up more because they already have clothes like that in their wardrobe and they won’t stick out and call undue attention on themselves.

Where I live which is a network of small farming communities, someone wearing a suit or even a dress shirt AND tie would really stick out and call undue attention on themselves.

That being said…at daily Mass at my other parish…I once saw a lady with a veil on her head wearing a miniskirt…still confused about that one:shrug: You want to cover your head but you don’t want to cover

 

[Tigg]

Not all adult Catholics have been practicing their whole life. Some of us just came back to the Church after a long absence and probably appreciated the reminder. Cause I know they did not teach it in RCIA from my husband going.

You’re certainly right about this one. I just read the other day that we are in the third generation of Catholics who have been deprived of good basic catechesis, but I know at least in our parish, we’re turning this around.

 

[CMatt25]

Indeed. Anybody who understands history before 1965 would understand that.

There’s something about 1965 that you didn’t like?